With my primaries, I'll usually switch between my Airtech 4000 and my Longshot. I'll sometimes use my Titan with a 6" barrel at four to seven pumps. If I feel like using a sidearm I use my Nite Finder with an Ultralite barrel but I'll soon be using my Nite-Mav once it's finished. For indoor wars, I like to dual-wield with my Nite Finders.

I like this thread.

Well, I've been having a slow nerf week. All I did was design a homemade hose handle, debated whether a PVC or HPA external tank would be more air efficient, and looked back at some of my first mods.

Whats 11/4" PVC?

One and one quarter inch PVC pipe. AKA: 1.25"

Century Springs.com
This should help. I think Anima suggested it.

It's not really a material used for modding, but for homemades. Where can I get blow gun triggers, the ones used in modded sprinkler valves? Also, where can I get PETG or some other lightweight, translucent plastic tubing with a 17/32 and 19/32 ID? Thanks in advance for the help.

1.You won't find PETG at any hardware stores so you'll have to go to a pet store that specializes in aquariums to find it from a store. It's normally used in wash down applications.

2. I've seen two types of CPVC. One is an off-white color and has a smaller inner diameter and wall thickness than regular PVC. The other I've seen and is at the Lowe's and Home Depot near my house is a light gray or black color. It also has a smaller ID (inner diameter) but a thicker wall size to handle higher pressures. Both types fit .53" micro darts (the standard before CDTD's)

3. CPVC is not expensive (something like $4.00 for 5') and can be found in most Home Depots and Lowe's in the sprinkler section.

EDIT: Oops sorry OMC I wrote this before you posted.

Oh I guess I was a little confused too. Apparently there's schedule 80 PVC, Schedule 40 CPVC (off-white stuff), and Schedule 80 CPVC (the dark gray stuff). And I think each one can only fit in it's own fittings (I'm not 100% sure though).

The grey/ black stuff is actually Schedule 80 PVC. Many people refer to it as "thin wall". It's a lot looser than CPVC, but the head of a stock micro does not slide all the way in like it would in Sch. 40 PVC (white pvc).
Just thought I should clarify that.

Mcmaster-Carr lists CPVC as Schedule 80 PVC. Captainslug aslo refers to CPVC as Schedule 80 PVC. I believe most people refer to the off-white CPVC as thin wall because the black CPVC has thicker walls and is rated for higher pressures. And all of the micro darts that I've used (with the exception of those that came with the Titan Unity set) can fit inside 1/2" schedule 40 PVC. The only reason I had regular darts that didn't fit was because the foam became too soft and wasn't stiff enough to push the head of the dart all the way into the barrel. But other than that you should be able to fit stock darts inside 1/2" PVC (I have some in it right now).

He removed the video.

I may not be practical for most people, but someone posted a write up on how to use some freeware and a set of mics to measure velocity. I've always liked seeing power in terms of FPS because it eliminates any angling.

Shadow, I just tried the 3 step nesting thing, with the exact sizes you posted, and got worse range than my simply cpvc barreled BBB. It seems the cpvc modded BBB got about 10 feet more than the 3 step nested BBB.

Hmm... That's unusual. How did your dart fit in the 9/32'' brass? It might have been that your darts are too loose or too tight. If that's true just switch to a different size. How was your seal batween the barrel and the plunger? You said that you rebarreled it three times. Maybe the brass barrel had a bad seal. Anyway, if you decide to keep the CPVC barrel congrats on finding the right barrel materialfor your darts.

Google

Cross-linked polyethylene. PEX tubing is commonly used for hydronic radiant floor heat, but increasingly also used for water supply lines. Stronger than PE.
www.alpha-plumbing.com/plumbing-terminology-p.htm

I think it's the clear tubing with grey cross-links stuff I saw at Home Depot. It isn't hard and can be bent like vinyl tubing.

A three-step nested brass barrel would be your best bet for your Big Bad Bow or Longshot (if you figure out how to do that with a LS). But for air powered guns use PETG if it fits your darts. It's supposedly smoother on the inside than other barrel materials but is harder to find than brass or CPVC. If you want more information on the nested brass barrels I mentioned earlier check out the Darts and Barrels article.

Hey Dr. Nerf, how does that valve compare to say a modded sprinkler valve or the valves and airtanks found in AT2Ks?

These valves can easily be converted for use with nerf applications with amazing results. In fact, I'm guessing that a design such as the one below has enough power to act as a cannon for multiple Mongo Stefans and be around the same size as a Big SNAP.

I designed it mostly as a proof of concept sort of thing. The goal was a blaster that was both relatively compact and powerful.

Heres what I'm designing now. I know its not nerf, but designing a semi auto paintball-type gun is a lot easier than designing a new semi auto nerf gun. Its works off a two way valve that uses air pressure to move a bolt and fire a ball. The general design is based on the Smart Parts Ion with some changes to make it fire at a lower pressure. The trade off is that the bolt will only be able to move around five times a second compared to fifteen. The numbers aren't real, just rough guesses.

I found some valves used on pneumatic spudguns. It uses a piston and a pressure difference to fire allowing for faster opening times than a the valves seen in most nerf guns and has a higher flow rate than QEV's and modified sprinkler valves.

Piston Valves

These valves can easily be converted for use with nerf applications with amazing results. In fact, I'm guessing that a design such as the one below has enough power to act as a cannon for multiple Mongo Stefans and be around the same size as a Big SNAP.

Here it is redesigned:
This is the valve at rest. The spring holds the piston back keeping it sealed. The piston is now composed of a threaded rod with rubber fender washers, steel fender washers, and some nuts. This will allow the piston to be adjusted to match the desired trigger pull.

Valve opened.
Due to the speed of the sprinkler valve's opening time, the pilot valve should only have to remain open for a short amount of time (as demonstrated in the picture below).

Valve closed/ sealed off
After the valve is opened, it is immediately sealed off when the trigger is pulled a certain length. This allows the sprinkler valve to be opened and closed at a predetermined time, creating a semi automatic valve.

Valve in full auto position
If the sprinkler valve and pilot valve are connected to a homemade with components similar to a Magstrike or Rapid Fire 20, then the valve can be used for fully automatic firing. By fully depressing the trigger, the pilot valve remains open, allowing a constant supply of air flow. If the pilot and solenoid valve is connected to a regular airtank, then this mode can be used to dump the entire supply of air.

After I spent sometime reading about how to modify a sprinkler valve on Spudfiles, I realized that all the blowgun trigger did was vent air. The length of time that the blowgun trigger was depressed was the amount of time that the valve was opened. So all I did was design a valve that vented pressure from the diaphragm of a sprinkler valve and I got this.

This picture reflects my influence from Dr. Nerf's semi-auto valve.

Valve at rest


Valve open


Valve sealed off


More details later...

EDIT: just realized that the valve still vents air even when it's "sealed off."

You probably have either a short barrel, a leak, or both. 12 to 14 inches seems to be a good barrel length; to detect leaks, pump it underwater.

I believe the actual optimal barrel length is closer to 16-20".

Problem solved.
1.In the end, I had to cut with the shell's seam with a dremel. Well, that lacked finesse.
2.EDIT- My titan has ISSUES! When I first modded it, it got 79' with 20 pumps. I thought that it was just my sloppy mod. However, when I now fire it, (1 day later) my micros flip in the air and only go 24 feet!

1.Which seam are you talking about? It doesn't really matter but extending the part where the gun opens in half is the easiest way I found.
2. You should check your darts too. If they're bent, underweighted, or too tight they won't preform well.

I think the Titan's check valve is at the back of the pump, so it should work.

You could add fins in addition to the weight.

Where did you get the 5$ bike pump? I have been looking for a cheap pump for a while now.

You could just make a pump from PVC. Chances are, it'll be a lot cheaper and mare fun than buying one.

EDIT: Almost forgot. Nice job with your first homemade.

If was wondering, why don't we have a thoery forum? I think it would be extremely benificial to have one, for a variety of reasons. Mainly, the increase in contributions and a growth in the level of modifications. ( I don't really feel like writing a long winded essay because I had to write a couple DBQs in APUSH and analyze some poetry in AP English, so I'll just list the pros of the idea. As the topic grows, I'll update it the possible cons.)

Pros:

• It will increase the quality of homemades and modifications
  • Allows people to improve and expand upon other designs
  • Those better designs will rersult in better products
• People always complain about others not contributing, this gives people the chance to contribute
• Will allow for the peer review of designs
  • Brings the designer to attention crucial design flaws that would have required more work to fix later on
• Attract people to the forum intrested in designing (it's the reason why I'm a member at Spudfiles)
• Increase the number of known desings
  • Gives people a wider selection of designs to choose from when building a homemade or modding a gun
  • There are only a couple of known designs right now and most of them are either expensive to build or require uncommon tools
• Other sites have had great success with a theory board

Cons:

• Designs will remain designs and not be followed through
• Goes against rules made by moderaters
• Faster results are accomplishes by building models

What do you think?

So let's recap:

1. You want us to completely loosen our policy banning idea only threads.
2. CS, who no one will question his level of expertise, reiterates the reasoning behind team NH's decision.
3. I decide to throw you a bone and open the possibility to a reasonable exception.
4. You keep fighting.

This site is run the way the founders want it to be run. It's really that simple. We don't overturn policy outright unless they tell us otherwise. If you want to solely kick ideas around, find someplace else to do it. If you have come up with something, or want to talk about the improvement of past creations that's fine. Bottom line is this: build something* before it gets posted here.

* NH does reserve the right to take action on your account if our team of experts thinks unsafe designs are being made. These designs could either result in damage to you, someone else, or major property damage.

I see. I'll accept the decision and I appreciate your input. Thank you for clarifying a subject that's been bugging me for a while.

If I may ask though, what exactly was the exception? I'm afraid I haven't noticed where you mention the exception.


Thanks to everyone for helping me understand this a little bit better.

So far theory/design/concept threads almost never result in a blaster actually being finished. Therefore I would not want to promote the existence of such threads.

* There are only a couple of known designs right now and most of them are either expensive to build or require uncommon tools

Supports the above statement. There are too few people actually willing to see their original design completed and are also willing to provide detail instructions that others can follow to make their own.
Having a theory/design/concept specific board would not improve this situation.

Thanks for the feedback.

While I do acknowledge the fact that most people (including myself), don't follow through with their plans, I do believe that having a design board will allow people who actually build stuff to choose from a greater variety of designs.

To counter your statement concerning tools, designs that require minimal fabrication can simply be produced. What I enjoy most about Spudfiles, is seeing a design that is capable of many things, yet operates on a simple design or is made of basic parts. Making designs like that available further increases the number of people that can produce a product, and therefore contribute more.

I think it also goes along with something Pineapple said awhile back concerning how concept threads will no longer be tolerated. So a theory/idea/concept forum would most likely not be tolerated either, so I highly doubt it will ever happen.

Here is the link to what PInapple said. Just because it is from last year does not mean it is no longer in effect.

It's Clean-Up Time!!!

I personally believe that if you have an idea, try it yourself or wait for someone to do it first. That is how modding began. Someone had an idea, tried it out, and the rest is history.

I've read that message, but I have to disagree. From what I gather, Pinapple's basic reasoning was to encourage contributions. But as you can see, more contribtuions can be made if a theory board was created.

My philosphy on modding is to simply improve on what already exists. Allowing people to post their designs gives people a chance to improve on a design. Even if that person can't actually build it, the idea is expressed and other people can.

1.People that actually build stuff typically do not need or want to use the designs of other people.
2. Nobody is going to invest the time or money to attempt to duplicate a design that hasn't been built by anyone to confirm that it's even feasible or functional as a blaster.

3. You're unfortunately assuming that posts alone count as contribution. That's just not the case in this community, where emphasis is on promoting Nerf War attendance. And increasing the innovation of the blasters we use to keep said wars interesting.

4. Designs do not equal innovation. Working prototypes do.

1. People that actually build stuff actually do use other people's ideas. Just look at how guns are based off of the blow forward bolt on Spudfiles.

2. That's the whole point of peer review. Using others to check for design flaws to increase the chances of creating working model.

3. Contributing designs and spreading ideas is alot better than keeping an amazing iidea inside your head.

4. The Manhattan Project wasn't made by a single person who had a great idea and put it together. It was the result of the collaboration of hundreds of people working together to create a solid, functioning design. Of course prototypes needed to be developed before the final version was created. I'm not saying that a design alone will lead to a revolution in Nerfing. But what I am saying is that better products often result from better ideas?

saving space

I totally agree that at some point, the designs have to be made to be fully tested. But having the ability to have others check your design before you waste time building something that obviously won't work is an invaluable resource. For example, I designed a spring less, semi auto bolt and valve. I posted it on Spudfiles and was nicely informed that the front of the bolt had to have more surface area in order to work. Simple facts like that allowed me to fix my design before building it, saving me the money that it would have cost to build another design and the time it would have taken me to fix a problem that I would have otherwise not have known how to solve.

In addition, it's sometimes just not feasible to build multiple models when they're epensive to build or consume a lot of time. Having a peer reviewed design eliminates most of the work required to create a working product. I'm not saying that having it peer reviewed will automaticaly gurantee success, but it sure will help a lot.

The U-shaped design is an interesting concept, I like it. The trigger looks really small. Have you had any problems using it / plans to make it bigger? Oh and when you're heat pressed the PVC for the Tec-9's handle and grip, what did you do to prevent inhaling the chlorine fumes?

I like it. The trigger makes up half of the gun

Things to improve:
See if I could use the seal backer as the nail catch, so I could eliminate one washer and the spacer.
Get a heavier spring.

Shadow Hunter Alpha's right, Handyman springs are the best for small guns.

Still need a way to make easier handles...eh, that's another day.

Have you ever considered a tee and a 45 degree elbow?

The bottom part of the tee is supposed to be longer. I accidentally sketched it that way because the other gun that I'm designing uses a cut down tee.

I don't think that the gun would rotate as much as you say it would in real life. Flexor tendons in the wrist should be able to overcome most of that force.

Nice mod Carbon. I've always wondered though why you don't use 2" PVC for the pressure chamber of all of your later SNAPs. Are there certain design flaws that make the 1.5" ideal or is it just preference?

It's funny that mention a pump action SNAP Prometheus, I'm in the middle of making one.

Wow. That's the greatest integration I've ever seen. And your method for planning is genius! I've really got to try using it some time.

I'm guessing that you can unload that thing about 25 times (1000 shots/ 40 darts) before the tank empties. So how do you plan on refilling the HPA tank? Do you plan on taking it to a paintball store? I guess if you use this strictly for assassin games then you wouldn't have a problem though.

The SSPB's trigger is strangley reminiscent to the piston designs used on spud guns in a sense that both use a pilot valve to open the "valve" that leads to the barrel. I've been trying to design pilot activated valves for a while but now I think I might have just found it. Thanks (But don't expect to see a homemade from me anytime soon.)

This mod is one of the most original mod I've seen in a while.

I'm trying to build a paintball/ nerf gun that uses an electric motor to spin a bolt and close a breach. I planned out most of the stuff I need, I just need help with the motor.

I was browsing Radio Shack and I saw, this motor, and I was wondering if it would provide enough torque to spin a 1.75" long PETG bolt. I also need to figure out a way to make the bolt spin to the sealed position every time I pull the trigger. Finally, is there a way to control how fast the bolt spins and how long it stays in the sealed position?

Click on the picture for the original Spudfiles topic and more information.

Nice mod, it looks pretty clean. I think you can pull even more out of the gun with a longer barrel. The Sonic Bazooka has a pretty large air tank if I remember right. A good 16" should be enough to fully accelerate the dart.

Just to clear things up, any gun with a 1/2" PVC barrel can fire stock darts because it has a 5/8" ID.

Funny Jake, adding a spring sounds like a good idea.

Yeah, when I first plugged the pump on my SM3K, the pressure was so high that I could only fire it by holding it upside down (I don't know why it worked though). After doing a Bic pen mod I had a much easier time pulling the trigger. Now I do the pen mod to every air gun I have. This way I don't have to worry about the trigger spring eventually wearing out due to the excess pressure.

Nice mod, the only bad part is the barrel is not removeable, so you've got to ram rod it, and you can't switch barrels around.

It is 2 barrels in 1, micro and rocket. Ramroding is easier than breech loading in my point of view.

Wait, since there isn't a barrel constiction (ie. nested brass) shouldn't you be able to just blow your darts down the barrel instead of using a ramrod?

Just a note to anyone who replaced their spring: You NEED to reinforce the plunger rod and replace the screw on the plunger head with a longer on if you don't want your plunger head to snap off. The gun's plunger might be fine for a while but soon it will start bending and eventually snap.

Has anyone else had trouble with the sanding bits? Mine always slip off when I use them.

Nice find with the dremel and bit set. The cleaning, buffing, and poliching brushes in the top left hand corner of the first pic are great for removing stray scratches on plastic.

Link

It's a BB gun but the concept is the same.