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Semi-auto 2k Prototype-its A Start

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#51 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:05 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the RF20 bladder hold less pressure than the at2k valve?

This would result in the law of diffusion causing sub-par shots if you used valves to first let the air from the RF20 into the AT2k, in the methods Ompa described. I don't know how that valve on the RF20 works, so I can't comment on tex's design.

Also, this gun looks far better and has an excellent feel in person, just to squash those "rumors" that Ompa said about a "more cosmetic" version! </partial sarcasm>

Crank'

EDIT: Ompa, you could do what I said earlier and remove the liguitron completely, and make the bladder and valve internal, while somehow leaving access to the valve.

Edited by crankymonky, 26 August 2004 - 10:06 PM.

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#52 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:05 PM

Idea. The 2k is very small, notmuch room. Im thinking you cut a small hole int he side of the case to stick the liquatron tubbe through, and attach the rf20 bladder on a 90 degree coupler, like mine. Its out of the way and off to the side, so you can aim. Also, unlike mine, you can add an rf20 valve inbetween the bladder and the gun, to regulate it, and it would be easy to use, sort of near the trigger.

Also, aother Idea. You mount the bladder ontop/to the side/wherever you want it, then, you run vinal tubing from there to a vlave located in the blue clear part of the 2k in the very back, with that vinal tubing leading to the liquatron. You make a few holes in the blue thing, and you have a lil buttun popping up waiting to be pushed.

Im just brainstorming.

THIRST
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#53 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:05 PM

Good luck ompa. I don't think and inside gun valve would be very sturdy, as there isn't much of a place to put it. The valve is a little stiff, but if you hollowed out the handle and mounted it sideways, you could use it that way. If i had longer tube i'd probably put mine in the front, because i use a different pump. If i had my way i'd make a whole new case, but that moves us out of mods into homemades i think. Either way, it's going to take a thumb to operate unless you have strong fingers. I can do it either way, but i haven't insulated the tip of the valve, so its kind of strong. Good idea thirst, the At2k is way small, i have everything mounted outside. I have the red case on mine, so no worries about it exploding or anything...i think the easiest way is in the handle. Good idea ompa, i think i'll do that. My 2k is pretty empty.

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 10:08 PM.

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#54 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:06 PM

Haha it's just my personal preference. It just reminds me of that damned paintball marker.. I was thinking I could re-attach the red housing and make it into a stock though. I'm just going to take the damn valves and stuff them wherever they fit, and hope the correct one ends up by the trigger.

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#55 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:09 PM

I realized I don't have nearly as quick a finger as Thirst, and I can get about 3-4 shots off with it. Bic Pen mod may make it far more easy to regulate with your finger. Maybe an extended Bic Pen mod and simply make it a hair trigger.
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#56 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:15 PM

Here's an idea. You put the valve in front of the trigger, facing it. So, when you pull back it closes the valve and shoots, when you let go, it opens the valve. If you guys really don't understand i may have to Flash things up.

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 10:15 PM.

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#57 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:17 PM

Eh, I managed to route the valve right next to the trigger, so I'm fine. The extra second it takes to press it really doesn't bug me.

~ompa
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#58 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:17 PM

You're having pulling the trigger open both the valve to the bladder and the AT2k valve? That may slow the rate of how the gun reacts, but maybe not.
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#59 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:19 PM

Ask Texas about that one. It should be fine though, as it's just a valve in between the tank and the bladder. I'll get pics up hopefully shortly and explain. If Texas doesn't first.

God, this has to be the fastest growing topic... EVER.
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#60 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:20 PM

I was reffering to Tex in that lsat post, I thought you did NOT connect them, saying how you don't ming the extra second pressing the valve. Now I think it wouldn't slow down the reaction time of the gun much, if properly Bic Penned, Might make pulling more difficult.
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#61 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:22 PM

Guys, im kinda scared that in themiddle of a war, Im just moving so fast I accidentily press the trigger and it all goes out, or i only get two shots because I accidently pressed it for too long. Its not a precise art, and I would give a second if the gun could be controlled and consitant. Once you get used to my trigger and the way of fire, it gets easy, but everything changes in an actual war.

THIRST
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#62 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:22 PM

One thing with not having a valve is, if someone suprises you and you go "oh crap!" and really pull on the trigger, you are extra-screwed. Thirst beat me too it.

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 10:22 PM.

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#63 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:25 PM

Mmm yes, the only reason i would consider using this in a war, is ebcause you can use it like a normal 2k also. 3 pumps and your good to go. A nice bonus feature, that wouldnt work if the air was regulated, but its a price Im willing to pay. Every gun has its weakness, we just have to compensate. I would try and test this out, but I need a few more 2k's first. Ohh TaliooooOOO

THIRST

Cx, I hope this topic alone doesnt eat up too much bandwitdth. ^_^ Actually, there was some seriousnes to that. :P

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 10:32 PM.

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#64 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:34 PM

Tex, in that case, you're not screwed, they are.
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#65 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:36 PM

Depends where the gun is aimed at the time :P I see Vintage is reading this thread. Vintage, join the fun! Grrr, he turned away!

THIRST

ANOTHER EDIT: I just tested it with 3 pumps, and its working not so good, so scratch what I said earyler. If you pump it 10 times, it will fire normally. But thats not a lot at all, because 10 pumps on that thing is as easy as pushing a rod up and down, nearly no resistance because of the rf20 bladder, very fast pumps, so Im happy.

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 11:03 PM.

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#66 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:05 PM

Posted Image

Didnt' turn out too badly- now I just need hose clamps.

~ompa
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#67 ShortShit

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:05 PM

...wowza

Edited by ShortShit, 26 August 2004 - 11:06 PM.

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#68 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:07 PM

Hose runs straight from the bladder to the valve on top to the valve on the bottom back through the clear part to the air chamber. It's alot of hoses everywhere, and alot of holes in the clear part.

~ompa
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#69 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:10 PM

New Thoughts

The bladder on the RF20 holds less pressure than that of the 2k valve, I am told.
When you regulate to let the bladder release air into the 2k valve first, the law of diffusion would lower the pressure in the 2k valve to something undesireable.

Then I thought some more

Using the current design on the AT2k "semi" that my brother Thirst has, as you pull the trigger, air is let out from the valve and bladder on the first shot.
On the second shot, a bit of residual air-not highly pressurized is left in the at2k valve, while most air comes from the bladder.

This would mean, that regulating air and first letting it into the at2k valve would work, but the effects would be less than desirable.

However, if we regulated air release from the RF20 bladder, the combination of air from the residual air in the AT2k valve, and the air from the bladder would propel the dart at desirable effects. This would mean that the way Tex did the mod(I think), by hooking the RF20 bladder to the RF20 regulator would work, however, that regulator only releases a little amount of air-the amount used in an RF20 shot, producing undesirable ranges. There would be two ways to fix this.
1)increasing pressure in the bladder with innertubes or bands, causing more air to escape in the same amount of time
2)modify the air regulator of the RF20 to stay open longer

Just some thoughts

Crank'
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#70 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:13 PM

It's not so much an "air regulator" as it is just a small storage area that allows a certain amount of air in, then closes. This is all BEFORE you fire it. I plan to inntertube the RF20 bladder as well.

~ompa
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#71 Crankymonky

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:14 PM

Also, in the end of mine, when I reffered to using that "air regulator", I also meant hooking it up to the trigger as well as the AT2k valve to the trigger.
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#72 ShortShit

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:15 PM

Ompa, so the pump in yours connect to the liquid gauge just like normal, but the liquid gauge now connects to tubing which leads to the rf20 valve, which then leads to the bladder yes? If so that looks perfect and once properly sealed (how are you going to seal the tubing to the gauge?) it should work with ease ACCEPT dont you have to hold the rf20 valve OPEN while you PUMP the whole gun? If so THAT is going to be awkward, holding the pin of the valve in with one hand while pumping with the other? Also you would HAVE to put my barrel system on there or a 4 barrel modded assembly on there if you wanted it to ACTUALLY be semi auto, (which shouldnt be a problem, my assembly would probably be ideal)

Edited by ShortShit, 26 August 2004 - 11:20 PM.

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#73 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:16 PM

1. Its going to leak if the bladder aint clamped
2 When yu actually epoxy/goop it we need performance stats asap.
3. Why the 2 valves? That makes it such little air, we need volume to make up for pressure partly here.
4. It looks awfully big in the picutre, I dont like the back placement, it looks nice, but it doesnt seem comfy in a war. Friggin awsome job Ompa!

Im thinking of putting it off to the side connected to a liquatron with an rf20 regulator. hell, lemme describe my plans. Im gonna put the liquatron pointing off to the side with a hole for the tube to stick out. That liquatron will be connected to the regulator via vinal tubing, and the regulator to the bladder with breaided PVC(very heavy vianl tubing like material). You see that I enlarged the handle with 3/4" pvc? That will also hold the bladder down below. Now thats a reall small, pretty ergonomical 2k, with the bladder below the handle, extending beneath it to make it even smaller. Im still working out a few minor bugs.

THIRST

Again, Ompa, beautiful.

One last note, If you inner tube your rf20 bladder, duck and cover. Beware of shrapnel. That creates so much pressure, your clamp wont hold it, I dont suggest you inner tube. Maybe bands, but an inner tube I've learned can lead to bad results.

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 11:19 PM.

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#74 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:18 PM

Short, it goes from the pump to the bladder which goes to the first valve which goes to the second valve which goes to the air chamber. All the seals are perfect, no worries there. Just gotta worry about that damn hose clamp. I'm off to bed.

Thirst, it's not that big.

~ompa
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#75 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:22 PM

What are we saying in repsonce to Cranky? There are still doubts. I guess we'll know when Ompa gets the clamps, hopefully soon, good luck all. Ehh, Ompa, I didnt mean the gun is big, Im thinking that the rf20 bladder may get in the way sine its elonagted the gun so much, oh well, If it was bad enough/at all, you would have mentioned it.

THIRST

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 11:23 PM.

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