294 replies to this topic

[ShortShit]

I like the back placement way better... how exactly does the pump connect directly to the bladder, doesnt the pump HAVE to connect to the liquid gauge or it will leak, or is it self sealed? Also where exactly are these needed hose clamps going on the bladder, I thought you could just use what the RF20 came with...??

[Crankymonky]

Everyone! Go read my last few posts, up until the long one, then respond. It is directly related to the designs that are currently up. It may also help Ompa.

[THIRST]

I like the back placement way better... how exactly does the pump connect directly to the bladder, doesnt the pump HAVE to connect to the liquid gauge or it will leak, or is it self sealed? Also where exactly are these needed hose clamps going on the bladder, I thought you could just use what the RF20 came with...??

The pump's vinal tubing goes directly to the rf20 bladder, from his picutre, hes using the rf20 bladder mechanism, which makes it easier/better chance of sealing. It doesnt have to be conncted to the liquid guage, its just an obvious solution. The rf20 bladder clamps only work if tis in the case, as its meant to fit in, and be supported by the case. That, and its very wide and takes up valuable tank space. Actually, Ompa should try it, I could be wrong.

THIRST

[ShortShit]

ahhh I see now, I wasnt getting it because I dont own and RF20 and didnt realize there was a place in the bladder setup to have a pump coming in, AND another tube going out to the regulator valve, now it all makes sense now, im excited to see how the ranges are, as i wouldnt buy a rf20 unless they were up to par

[THIRST]

Many people have roken rf20's, buy the internals from them, Im sure it will be cheap. Its what I plan on doing to get more rf20 bladder, because theyre much easier to work with than inner tubes.

THIRST

[ShortShit]

lol slap this bebe's assembly on there

and you've got yourself a lean mean semiauto at2k machine with no dart reloading needed till after 2 rounds are done!

[THIRST]

Meh, while it would be perfect for what we're doing, that makes it so big. The thing that seperates our 2k's from single barreled PC's is that they get more range, are smaller, and are more accurate. Being small is one of its best traits. Maybe you could design sort of a miniature compressed, smaller design, since its your area of specialty, in my eyes at least.

THIRST

[Crankymonky]

They're not that small. Thirst's feels like a paintball gun, size/ balance/feel wise without any gas. These are extremely heavy, and adding that barrel assembly would make for an ungodly gun, while making the gun near real rifle weight.

Edited by crankymonky, 26 August 2004 - 11:48 PM.

[ShortShit]

the whole second half of the assembly (from the ball valve on) is just an extra clip for easy reload, not needed, plus since that picture ive put that on MUCH more efficiently, the 'L' coupler doesnt poke out of the front, its actually in the casing right at the at2ks valve, and the barrel is flush with the casing, its not heavy at all.

Im excited to see ompas results! *fingers crossed*

Edited by ShortShit, 27 August 2004 - 12:13 AM.

[ompa]

Well damnit, where's Tex? Every time I pump it the second valve leaks- I'm doing it right now just with tie wrapw for testing, but why the heck is it leaking out the valve pin? It worked with my RF20.. I think there's some mechanism that's different. I don't believe that both me AND Tex's valves could be bad, there's something we're doing wrong here. I mean, my valve leaks constantly whenever I pump it. Either we find a replacement valve, or figure out how this thing works. And I'm not talking about random guessing.

Uh, guys? I think it's time to celebrate. Apparently using the two valves locks the thing IN Semi-auto to start with. I just taped down the trigger valve, and now I can pull the trigger 4 times and it actually shoots 4 times. There's no pins needed to be pressed or anything. Now, I NEED SOME DAMNED HOSE CLAMPS!!

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 27 August 2004 - 08:16 AM.

[texmustache]

Sorry, i thought it was just mine. However, i've done this before. I recall the other valve might be the one i need, it's just that was the only valve i had. I'm testing it out, putting tubes on different ends etc. Oh ompa it leaks when you pump? you've got it on backwards. Mine leaks when i shoot. Certainly a lot less of a problem.

Oh cool, sounds good ompa.

Edited by texmustache, 27 August 2004 - 09:12 AM.

[ompa]

the other valve was on backwards. I screwed it up when I tried to mod my RF20 before. Now though, it seems to work, buit I don't need to press the valve every time.

Short- although the idea is rather appealing, I think I'll just stick with my turret for now, as 4 shots is good enough to start with for me. I pumped the gun 8 times (I can't anymore since I don't have a damn hose clamp) and I got off 4 about equally powerful shots, the regulator works great. However, if I get the hoseclamp and I end up being able to get like 10 shots off, I will definately consider using your barrel assembly. But for now, I'll stick with my turret, as I'm under some serious time constraints with school bearing down on me in a few days.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 27 August 2004 - 09:34 AM.

[cxwq]

Just skimmed this thing so I'm sure I missed a lot - I'll have to go back and read it all.

Regarding the bandwidth concerns, an Armageddon video (which I'm going to post soon because Julie is halfway done with it) sucks up more bandwidth in a day than the entire forum does in a month. That and I have never used more than 50% of my bandwidth allocation. I love threads like this so don't hold back on my account. Honestly, these discussions are why I pay for the site.

Regarding the solenoid idea back on page 2 or whatever, You'd just wire it physically so that the solenoid is open (wires connected) when the trigger is all the way forward. When you start to pull the trigger it breaks contact and closes the solenoid, then it opens the at2k valve. When you start to release the trigger it closes the at2k valve, then opens the solenoid.

Regarding the pressure capability of the RF20 tubing, it is considerably lower than the at2k tank. My gut opinion is that this will only decrease range by about 10' though because the at2k by itself is pushing the limits of what a relatively small volume of air can do.

Regarding the goo tube constricted mounting arrangement, I love the ghetto quasi-regulator. You can accomplish the same thing with an alternate mounting location by just using small diameter tubing.

Regarding the double-physical-valve configuration to avoid wasting air, I actually like the seperate valve triggers. Push a button to charge, pull the trigger to fire. Seems simpler and less prone to failure than rigging the second valve to the trigger. I may be in the minority on this issue however since people really seem to want a 'real' semi-auto setup.

Great work guys, you do honor to the forums!

[ompa]

Actually Cx, since I taped the valve button down, it IS not semi-auto, no valves need to be pressed. I believe it's because I left the other valve in semi-auto position (regarding it's use on the RF20) so it now fires in bursts. In short, I get about 4 shots off of 8 pumps, which is my max at the moment. That soldenoid idea is great- I know exactly how I could wire it too... Unfortunately, I think ti'd be far too bulky for use on the AT2k. I didn't even have room to fit those two tiny regulators from the RF20. However, if I get another AT2k and a random soldenoid drops onto my table, I'll definately try it. So Cx, concering your guestimations, by the end of this, we'll have a 4-shot, semi-auto gun capable of firing 80ft.? Damn, that works well.

W00t we got Cx's honor, that's definately a good thing.

If THIRST would say yes, would you consider putting the final product of the mod on the site?

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 27 August 2004 - 10:46 AM.

[cxwq]

Yes, I would gladly put the final product(s) on the site whenever I find time to post the half dozen submissions I already have.

Oh yeah, regarding the nerf OEM regulator that people were attributing to the at3k, you actually want to be looking at the sm5k. The trigger mechanism on the at3k is just designed to pull the valve open quickly, not release it automatically. The mechanism on the sm5k is designed to pull the valve open quickly, then close it again almost immediately. Perhaps it could be modified to have a slightly higher throughput - I know I had to disable (rip out) mine because it took 3 trigger pulls to empty the 5k tank after pump plug.

[THIRST]

Whew, thanks Cx, Ompa, Tex, Crank, everyone else. A lot happened when I was asleep Anyways, Im gonna finish my summer homeowrk so I can get 2k's as soon as possible, I need to do all this.

Ompa, when yuo get 4 shots on 8 pumps, hows the air output? We certainly arent gettign much pressure, so were reklying heavily on volume to propell the dart.

Nice work guys, keep it up. Sure we can post our stuff on the mdos site, maybe a joint effort mod or something?

THIRST

[Vintage]

Vintage, join the fun! Grrr, he turned away!

Ok, I will. I happen to have an RF20 in pieces right now just waiting for a bladder removal. My idea: Wire the trigger valve of the RF20 down right below the trigger of the AT2K. That way you prime the gun with your middle finger, then fire with your index finger. All the while, rotating the turret with your other hand.

~Vintage

[texmustache]

Okay, update from me: I swapped the RF20 pump back for the AT2k pump, and added a brass turret. Ranges are about 50' with STOCK MICROS, about 60' with stefans! I can get about 16 shots at normal power and another 8 at lower power with 50 pumps. I have the tank mounted on top with clip ties, it's very sturdy, and i have the valve on the side near the trigger. Vintage, if you where doing complex vavle mounting, i'd suggest mounting the valve facing the trigger right in front of it. With your finger in there, at rest the vavle would be open, letting air through. As you pull the trigger back, the valve closes, and it will be closed when the trigger is back enough to fire. Then you let your finger return, which opens the valve again, and you repeat. I'll have pictures of my setup up hopefully later tonight, as i have finish digging a 26' trench today and my dad won't let me use the camera till its done.

Edited by texmustache, 27 August 2004 - 12:31 PM.

[Crankymonky]

I would like to say this
A long time ago my bro thought of this and well, had no idea what the results would be, but thought possibly semi-auto

Now that we have done this, Rawray7's dream came true!
I'm not sure if anyone remember, but,
He said in one post that he wished to allow the liquitron to somehow give him a second shot, this happened before Cx did the liquitron mod, or about that same time.

Well, just saying.

[cxwq]

Regarding the writeup, I'd like several of you to co-write one big writeup that includes all of your ideas, photos, and results. I'll nominate THIRST to head this group up and do the final editing and submission. I'll credit everyone who gives him significant input that gets included in the final product.

Do wait a week or so to start on it though because you're obviously all still cranking out new ideas and building them up.

Oh yeah, did someone mention open::nerf recently? <g> I think we just demonstrated a working model for that concept. Introduce something new and interesting to a bunch of smart people and see what happens? It's just like when ShortShit took 3DBBQ's clip/barrel concept and ran with it, posting results and ideas as he went. That thread and this one are easily the two most interesting threads I've read this year. I think the biggest stumbling blocks to this kind of progress in the past have been getting all the smart people together on one site and everyone reducing their egos enough to work together.

Once again, kudos to everyone involved.

[Crankymonky]

Open nerf should have just been a mindset that the NIC needed. Cx, I loved that,

reduce their ego's enough to work together

.

That post just really made me laugh.

cranking

Yes, I am crankying.

[Pineapple]

Oh yeah, did someone mention open::nerf recently? <g> I think we just demonstrated a working model for that concept. Introduce something new and interesting to a bunch of smart people and see what happens?

That's exactly my sentiments.

I read all seven pages (as of now), and I didn't read one flame, direct insult, or anything personally detracting in this thread. Neither did I read of anyone trying to whore up all the "credit" as though it were going to elevate them to some kind of moderator/admin/god status.

Just Nerfers getting together and hashing it out, and everyone has a working proto in their hands/ on their workbenches.

But I DON'T HAVE ONE! AAAHH!

That's it. I know there are 2k's in Honolulu, and I'm going there tomorrow. You all are leaving me in the dust and having fun hacking and gluing...I feel lost.

Jolly good show, chaps. This thread is making me smile. A lot.

I'll have a 2k by Monday, or die trying.

-Piney-

[cxwq]

I'll have a 2k by Monday, or die trying.

Please avoid the death option, we like you around here.

If you can't get ahold of at2ks, let me know. I'll hook you up again at cost+shipping. My Target has ~10 of the two-packs.

[THIRST]

This is what Ive been visualizing for awhile. hope it isnt hard to understand, its a basic outline.

THIRST

Edited by THIRST, 27 August 2004 - 12:55 PM.

[cxwq]

That's beautiful.

CPS/regulator and reliable clip system on the cheap. Potential for a 10-shot semi-auto that's more reliable and accurate than the BF/hornet.