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Semi-auto 2k Prototype-its A Start

or an end?

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#26 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 05:34 PM

Im gonna answer all questions later, because I have to go, though Ompa seems to be doing a great job. And guys, my site is guns outdated, Ive probobally doubled my guns since then.

THIRST

Oh, and increasing the air flow would leave the gun a lot more inefficient, I was looking for horrible air flow on this, so I would have more shots.

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 05:37 PM.

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#27 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 06:03 PM

Or you could make good air flow plus some type of regulator...

Yeah, well, I still don't know why I'm answering questions on your design.

~ompa
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#28 NinjZ

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 06:22 PM

Because you know your shit Ompa. I don think Thirst was insulting you.
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#29 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 06:31 PM

Okay, i just tried this out. Took apart my RF20 and AT2K. I used the RF20 parts for everything but the firing chamber and trigger. I used an extra valve to control the semi-autoness. Results: 20 pumps was about 12 shots, but the valves leaked, so you had to shoot quick. No barrel or anything, but it does work, and less pumps, more shots.
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#30 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 07:52 PM

There has to be a better way to control the airflow.. Does anyone have any ideas how to limit the amount of air per shot other than a ball valve? Any idea of a soldenoid will work?

~ompa
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#31 Vintage

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:11 PM

If you could make a solenoid close when the electricity flows, it should work great.

You would hook up the circuit to the trigger so the solenoid would shut off airflow to the AT tank when the trigger is pressed halfway. Then only the air from the AT tank would fire. When the trigger is released, the AT tank would be refilled from the RF20 bladder.

I just don't know if solenoids can be wired to close with the electric current.

~Vintage
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#32 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:15 PM

Excuse my stupidity, but what other types of valves are there besides soldenoids and ball valves that could be used?

I'm working on a more asthetic design right now, I should have pictures up by night's end. Central time, hopefully.

~ompa
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#33 ShortShit

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:18 PM

I agree there must be a better way than just counting on your trigger finger... Im going to let it marinade in my brain a bit... hmm....
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#34 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:24 PM

I think you mis-understood. I used a RF20 valve. It works fine, but mine leaks a little, so you have to pull the trigger after you hit the valve fast. I non leaking one would work fine.
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#35 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:25 PM

Sorry, but would you mind like posting a picture or something of that sort? Because the valve I THINK you're using just makes no sense.

And now that I have a cannibalized RF20, I REALLY want to know, as I don't want to go around messing with soldenoids.

~ompa
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#36 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:29 PM

http://www.freewebs....e/valveedit.jpg
probably have to copy and paste...

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 08:30 PM.

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#37 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:36 PM

Ok, but just where in the system does that go? Does it change the AT2k trigger system to use that piston instead? Or is it just a valve somewhere?

DAMNIT NO!!! My check valve just busted on my AT2k...

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 26 August 2004 - 08:52 PM.

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#38 ShortShit

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:05 PM

yeah, all your picture shows us is the valve, how the hell does it connect and what is its function. How Long is that biking tube crap on the RF20, and what is its diameter?
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#39 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:14 PM

I haven't assembled everything yet, but i'm planning on putting the valve in the front, so you hit that one with one hand, and pull the trigger with the other. I connected it all with various RF20 tubes, and i attacked the RF20 stuff to the AT2k liquid gauge, because the tube size and connecters are more or less the same. I think the RF20 pump would be better, ompa. It takes a LOT less pumps.
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#40 ShortShit

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:20 PM

tex you need to be drawing us a picture of how it all works out in paint or something... I kind've see what your saying but its not all working in my head, this RF20 valve has 2 hoses coming off it which connect where and where? ALso it seems to have that little push needle, im assuming that would be setup were you press that once to fill the firing chamber then pull the triger, press that again, and so on?

Edited by ShortShit, 26 August 2004 - 09:25 PM.

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#41 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:32 PM

Short, I'm almost positive that's what you do. As for specs, here they are:

5.5 inches long
1.1 inches in diameter
0.3 inches thick

Posted Image

/\ note the spotless carpet /\

That's mine so far, I plan to use hoseclamps, as tiewraps don't cut it. I knew they didn't before, but HAD to test it. If you do the mod this way, you NEED a valve, so I'm waiting on Tex to see what he did.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 26 August 2004 - 09:46 PM.

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#42 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:44 PM

Well, I've been at a party, Im sorry, and Ompa, I was complementing you, because you know this stuff as well as anyone here.

Anyways, that rf20 thing sounds pretty genious, I happen to havea spare one lying around, Im gonna play around with it.

THIRST

Edit: Whoa Ompa, nice. So whats the difference besides tank placement, I see no valve. Hasnt been hooked up yet? Either way, I commend you fo actually trying to do this.

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 09:48 PM.

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#43 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:45 PM

I'll get a picture up sometime. I just finished cable-tie-ing the parts on. It'll fill the goo-gauge about 3/4 full per shot for about 15 shots, dropping to 1/2 after that for another 8 or so.
http://www.freewebs....he/assembly.jpg
its should have come with your rf20...

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 09:54 PM.

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#44 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:47 PM

So basically you press it, then pull the trigger, then press it, and pull the trigger, right? If that's how you did it, then I'm sure everyone here can figure it out. Also, if that's indeed how it works, It'd be like the same as using a ball valve, which THIRST so vehemently opposed :P .

Sorry THIRST if it seemed I took it offensively, I've been talking to way too many sarcastic women lately... Damn, it's impossible to know wtf they're trying to say.

~ompa
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#45 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:49 PM

I didnt like the ball valve because theyre a bit hard to open, and big. Thje rf20 valve on the other hand is easy to use and small. I think it has promise, now answer my question about your 2k! :P

THIRST
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#46 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:51 PM

Well, you EDITED your post after I posted mine, so, well, you know :P . There's really not much difference, except mine just seems to have a better airflow path to the chamber than yours. That's about it. And yours remind me of a vertical feed paintball marker, which always annoyed me, which is why I have a tippmann 98c. I just have this thing for things on the top of my gun in my line of sight. It's just me, I'm wierd. I'm hooking up the valve as we speak/post/type/stare.

But if the RF20 valve only fills the goo gauge up to 3/4 full, you're only going to get like 60ft ranges... So on second thought, I don't think I'll hook up the valve YET, well, ok I will, but meanwhile I'll be searching for alternatives.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 26 August 2004 - 09:52 PM.

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#47 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:56 PM

Very nice ompa. Mines bulky, the tank is on one side above the trigger, the pump is on the other side. I have the valve free-floating. You hold the gun with one hand and the valve with the other right now... but im going to tape it so you can operate them with one hand, and add a brass turret. And i haven't tubed or banded yet, that'd probably bring up performance, as thats what provides pressure.

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 09:57 PM.

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#48 THIRST

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 09:57 PM

The point of my gun was to have bad airflow, so it would causeless air to come out at a time to make it more efficient. Good luck with yours, but I think your not going to get better results, no offence, I want yours to be better, but I was thinking:

If you regulated the air, and opened the valve to fill the 2k valve all the way up, it would take away a lot of the rf20 tank's air. Also, if the air is let in teh valve, and then the valve is sealed off, it would make sence the air isnt under the same pressure as the air in the bladder, wouldnt it decrease since the pressure in the bladder is caused by the bladder contricting it? It would seem the air floating around in the valve would loose most of its pressure, since in my deisgn, the bladder is the reason the air is pushed out of the gun.

Im not entirely sure, but Im having doubts, feedback please, because I would rather have a regulated gun, mtmore efficient.

THIRST

EDIT: Ya know, Im actually quite flattered so many people are doing this and trying to make it better, Im thinking we can really get severel nice working semi auto 2k's, with mad efficiency.

Edited by THIRST, 26 August 2004 - 09:59 PM.

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#49 texmustache

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:00 PM

The pressure is the same either way. Closing the valve just seals off the air, the pressure inside already remains the same. Im just PO'd my valve is bad.

Edited by texmustache, 26 August 2004 - 10:00 PM.

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#50 ompa

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 10:01 PM

I know the point of yours is to have bad airflow- which is why mine needs a valve while yours doesn't, which is an advantage of yours. I'm having trouble figuring out where to mount the valve inside my AT2k, but hopefully I'll figure it out before my parents send me to bed. The valve just allows a certain amount of air to enter the chamber, that's all. it's a system of 2 valves if you look closely. One allows certain amount of air into the second chamber, then the trigger releases the air from there. At least I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

THIRST, this is the most cooperation I've seen between forum members on a mod-I think NH members deserve to be congratulated for this. Nice job in starting it off! I'm just lucky I have an AT2k and a messed-up RF20.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 26 August 2004 - 10:02 PM.

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