I think that the main point that Moore was trying to make was that the Saudis have a very large amount of money invested in our economy, which is true. He also illustrated the connections between the Bin Ladens and the Bush family, which has yet to be completely disputed, however I believe that the reason why Bush had connections with the other Bin Ladens was for business reasons, not to directly support Osama's terror network. In the film, they mentioned that most of the Bin Ladens have disowned Osama many years ago.

It makes sense that they allowed the Saudis and Bin Laden family to leave the country, because as soon as the public heard about Osama, people would most likely try hunting down his family and anyone else they thought were connected to him.

The main thing that really stands out in the movie is the war in Iraq. Tell me this: if getting rid of terrorism is important, why would we only send 10,000 troops to Afghanistan, where most of the key elements of Al-Queda is hiding, and then send 100,000+ troops to a country that had little or nothing to do with the terror networks in the first place? The reason why I state that Iraq may not have had significant connections to terrorism is because the Bush administration is still yet to prove these connections they have been accusing Saddam of before we went to war, and because more proof is surfacing that Iraq was not really a threat to the world.

When the US was first planning to invade Iraq, I was on the fence between supporting it and protesting it. It has been over a year now, and we still haven't found any Weapons of Mass Destruction™. As far as I am concerned, Bush decided to pull the strings of the US people to make them support the war in Iraq to further his business agenda, which I believe is one of the most key points Moore was trying to convey in his film.

Even before seeing F-9/11, I still hated Bush anyway, because I have found that in the end, many of his political decisions hold little to no actual grounding in terms of serving the American people or upholding the Constitution, which is what all presidents pledge to do when they are sworn into office to begin with.

Just because I think Moore made some very good points in his film does not necessarily mean that I agree with everything he says. Even though I do share many Liberal stances does not entirely make me one, because there are still several things that I do not agree with Liberals on. For example, I personally oppose gun control, because when criminals use guns, they do not give a shit about whether the guns they use are illegal or not. Also, one of the criminals' biggest fears is the possibility that their victims may be armed. I strongly support our 2nd ammendment rights, because we all have a right to defend ourselves, as well as have the necessary tools to accomplish this successfully.

Instead of just flaming Moore for his movie, we should look at the information he presents, and find out what is truth, and what is stretched and taken out of context. My decision to not support Bush is based on what I believe to be solid, verified evidence to why his actions should be looked down upon by the American people, not just because a political activist like Moore told me to. If you want to argue against the movie, argue against the points made in it, instead of just giving the "Michael Moore is a Liberal lunatic" excuse. If you want to convince me to even consider voting for Bush, I want undisputed reasoning and proof discrediting the claims of his connections to big businesses, and his using our patriotism to further his agenda. I strongly believe that Bush corrupted our country and is abusing his power as commander-in-chief.

Also, I have found that the Bush administration is looking to reinstate the Draft. You can find the proposed legislation under bills S89 and HR163 on the Official US Congress website at http://www.congress.gov

To find the bill, just do a search for either bill on the search box on the main page.

Hope you guys like forced military service designed to help Bush make more money.

Personally, I do not mind going into the military to serve my country (I have been considering joining the Air Force for several years), but I do not want to serve under a president who fucks with his country for money, and only money.

Here's a question for all those people who have seen the movie:
Does it ever support anything Bush did? encourages critical thinking, huh?

~Vintage

Come to think of it, what did Bush do to help the American people? Give us a false sense of security by using scare tactics about terrorism, and then taking away our freedoms? Lying to us that following him means being a patriot, but opposing him, or questioning his actions makes you a traitor to your country?

So what if the movie mainly bashes Bush? Are any of the facts presented in F-9/11 false? Like Rawray stated, there are at least 3 teams of independent researchers checking every single item presented in Moore's film, and found nothing inaccurate so far, except for the larger amount of Saudi money invested in the US economy. Moore himself even stated that he is considering offering a reward for anyone who can find any inaccuracies in F-9/11.

If a conservative like Limbaugh or Bill O Reilly released a documentary bashing Kerry, or showing Bush in a positive light, I would still go see it, weigh both views shown, and then come to my own conclusions, which is what INFORMED voters do. To make any decision in life, you need to weigh the consequences of both sides.

Even though I do not want to bring the whole debate about Communism, I feel that is necessary to address this. If the US became Communist, our enitre constitution would be scrapped, and most of our rights taken away. So why do you think that attempts to get rid of corporations who use the government for financial gain is an attempt to promote Communism? Actions like this are still upholding the Constitution, so I don't see why this can turn the US into a Communist government.

Getting to the military enlistments, because of the high unemployment rates in the US, the military looks better as a career option for the middle and lower class. Moore wanted to show that because of the indirectly-forced enlistments, the military has an easier time to strengthen their forces. Some of these troops are sent to critical terrorist hot spots, such as Afghanistan, while a majority of them are sent to Iraq, a place where we probably should not have started war with anyway. Sure, I hate Saddam as much as the next American, but when it comes to fighting the war on terror, America needs to set their priorities straight. There should be no reason why our troops should be sent to die in a country that most likely did not pose as a threat to us.

Sadly, we are at a point in Iraq where we can't just pull our troops out, and both Bush and Kerry have no doubts about that. Check the news and other resources, and compare what both candidates said about their plans for foreign policy. So far, I have found that Bush wants the US to continue fighting in Iraq indefinately, and Kerry wants to repair our diplomatic relations with the countries Bush pissed off.

It seems Iran is next on Dubya's hit list.

"We will continue to look and see if the Iranians were involved [in the 9/11 attacks]" he said.

"I have long expressed my concerns about Iran. After all, it is a totalitarian society where free people are not allowed to exercise their rights as human beings."

Ok, let's look at the list of countries:
Iraq
Iran
Saudi Arabia
North Korea
Syria
Pakistan

Conclusion: Dubya reads NerfHaven. Saudi Arabia has got to be shitting bricks.

I'm wondering where he plans to get the troops for that invasion

Read about bills S89 and HR163 on the Congress website, and I think you can come to your own conclusions from there.

I'm not surprised that Bradbury is pissed at Moore. Also, you would have thought it would have been reasonable for Moore's company to keep in touch with Bradbury, which he didn't. Mind you, that article was written almost 2 months ago. Bradbury thinks that the movie is just going to die off in the box office, and yet it outsold all of the other movies during its opening in theatres.

I already had my mind made up as to who I was going to vote for before I even saw this movie. Seeing F-9/11 only helped reinforce my reasoning behind this.

About the movie I, Robot? I think that it looks too lame for me to even bother watching it.

Under that logic, why did Oroku_Saki go to see the movie? I know he already gave his reasons, but he hated Bush before he saw the movie, so why would he need to see the movie?

Why is my personal need to see the film relevant to this debate? I sat down, saw the film, and am now discussing the points with others to see what they think, as well as share my personal thoughts. What's wrong with that? I am not trying to flame anyone, but I do admit being biased, but isn't everyone when it comes to politics? Every debate has opposing point of view, and I am merely showing mine, as you are.

Hmm. I'm not saying that criticism of our president is unpatriotic. Having different ideals is part of what keeps a democracy together. I'm saying that trying your best to make your own president appear like a piece of shit is not exactly patriotic.

Holy Bill of Rights, Batman! Making fun of our political leaders has been around probably since our country was created. Who remembers all of the negative press Clinton got about his intern blow jobs? Were any of those people responsible for creating this image labeled unpatriotic? Not that I remember, so why are conservatives labeling Moore in this way? In my opinion, exercising your first amendment rights is one of the most important things about being a true patriotic American. If an activist like Moore can't openly talk about what he does not agree with about our government, then who is?

After all, we voted for him. Vintage does have a point, (even though you presented it quite harshly...) You can't say "Bush sucks, Bush is a liar, Bush is trying to hurt America." After all, his actions aren't solely his, as he has to win the vote of the senate, and he has to have sufficient backup from the CIA and other government organizations. It wasn't just Bush. But he DID have a big factor in it.

In the 2000 election, Gore won the popular vote, so even back then, most Americans didn't want Bush in office.

As I said before, it is not just the president that is responsible for all of the problems of our country, but his entire administration. To take care of the administration, we must choose a different one in November, which means not voting for Bush.

Sometimes you need to see both sides of the story to get the big picture. I would rather be informed than ignorant, which is why I highly recommend that people see F-9/11, regardless of their political stances.

Sometimes I hate documentaries. For instance, I could go into a croud, interview a whole bunch of people, and then choose only the people who believe they have seen aliens for use in my documentary on the stability of the USA.

Doesn't the mainstream media do this anyway? Every view can be seen as biased, no matter how hard you try to convey your message. This is why I think Fox News's claims as "Fair and Balanced" is nothing but a fucking joke that too many people sadly buy into.

Like Rawray, I also look forward to seeing Michael Moore Hates America to see what the Conservatives have to say.

Also, in the news, Michael Moore stated that he gives the okay for file-sharers to distribute his film over the internet, as long as they do not profit from it. The article I read on this can be found here: http://www.sfgate.co...BUG267FNPT1.DTL

The film can be found all over the file-sharing networks, as well as over Bit Torrent.

When posting on this thread, I expected to see a nice, heated argument on this, but have yet to hear any good arguments from the other side. Come on, guys! Enlighten me!

I am opposed to any draft, because I only want people fighting for the USA who actually want to defend the country with their lives. 

Then why is the government trying to pass one before the election, without the mainstream media reporting it? If you look at my previous posts, you can find the bill on the Congress website under the bill numbers I posted. If you oppose the draft, why not do somthing about it?

What is the US military here for?  To give people free educations?  Or to defend our country?  When people use the military to get a free education, they MUST prepare themselves to fulfill the military's primary purpose.

And if a draft passes, it will be harder for these individuals to adjust to this (whoever they may be).

My dad got his education with the Marines.  He was and still is ready to go off to war for our country.  People who use the military for education without understanding their duties in it, find themselves with a hard smack of reality.

I have several friends who also went into the military for education, and they are fully aware of the possible hazards and commitments of their decision. If I enlist, I am also aware of this. I am sure that even a good majority of the lower class who enlist are also aware of what they are getting into. In the film, Moore interviews a few kids from the ghettos, and ask them what they think about enlisting, and they mention the possibility of getting killed, so don't say that people who enlist for education do not know what they might be getting themselves into.

You confessed that you hated Bush before you saw the movie, so why would seeing it make you 'informed'?  If you saw a movie that praised Bush, your hatred of him would keep you from believing what you just saw.  Being 'informed' is only a way of saying 'finding reasons for backing your predisposed beliefs.'

Don't get me wrong, I am the same way you are.  If I saw a movie talking about the heroic deeds of John Kerry, I would not believe them.  My beliefs concerning Kerry affect the way I observe his motives and doings.

My main point is this:  Once you feel you have a clear knowledge concerning a political figure/action, it is extremely hard to change your mind.  Thus, becoming 'informed' only really happens before you reach your conclusion.

The reason why I feel that the movie made me more informed is because the film showed Bush's decisions and actions in more detail compared to what I have picked up every so often from the news. So far, no one has found any inaccuracies in it, despite what many conservatives have said to bash Moore. Since I have not heard of any movies that have been made to praise Bush, I have no other choice but to make my decisions based on what is already out there in the media.

Points like the ones you made really make me wish that selective service was universal. I can say this considering that I am 18 and hold a draft card. I really don't think your opinion on the draft matters unless if you have or held that card, really I do.

I may be contradicting myself a little on this issue, but here goes: to even out the gap between the rich and poor being in the military service, there should be a draft, however looking at current events, it is really sad that a rich middle-aged white guy like Bush has the power to send young people to die for their financial gain. Selective service is a double-edged sword. It can be used for making sure all citizens provide a service to their country, however it can also be abused by sending them to die for lame causes.

Yeah, I think that Will Smith's Sci Fi days were long gone ever since they came out with the 2nd Men In Black movie.

Do you ever watch Ninja Turtles? Oroku Saki ain't no Iron Chef, even though the Great Master Shredder could theoretically be one if you think about it (with all the blades and all). But that's getting a little too off topic.

I think I already summed up my personal thoughts on the issue of F-9/11. As I said before, despite Moore being the political radical that he is, I must say he put together an excellent film, and I recommend that people see it even if they support Bush. The film brings up several important topics that will be key contributing factors in the next election.

Also, I look forward to seeing any conservative-based films that are coming out, but I think that Michael Moore Hates America is more about bashing Moore, instead of taking on his political arguments.

Personally, I am not directly supporting the movie because I agree with Moore, but I recommend that people watch it to encourage critical thinking. You don't have to go watch it, but I think it could be to your benefit.

Why be oblivious to the world around you, voting for a president that you do not really know about? Is it because of this whole, "We must support our president, no matter what he does" mentality that has infested our country over the last few years?

Would you seriously vote for an administration with a vice president who ran a corporation known to give bribes to international officials? A middle-eastern country becomes liberated, and who gets most or all of the reconstruction contracts for it? The same corporation that pays dividends to Cheney. Do you find this at least a little bit strange?

When the Bin Ladens were flown out of the country on September 13, 2001, why was the FBI given direct orders to leave them alone? After a crisis like this, isn't it standard procedure for the FBI to investigate any family members of the suspects?

In all of the criticism of F-9/11, all I have seen conservatives do is bash Moore. Are they running out of things to criticize about in his documentary, or are they just looking at the movie, not bother seeing it, and coming to the conclusion that it is a "biased piece of propaganda," therefore being hipoctitical about the film because they haven't actually seen it?

That may be interesting, but it might be difficult to put together a decent write up about this. Personally, I think it may be a better idea to do a write up about the history of Nerf guns in general.

That is a great idea. Secret Strikes seem to be the best Nerf gun to integrate into other guns.

I just saw it saturday, thats the funniest movie I have seen in SUCH a long time.

"We have 5 terrorists heading south on Bakalakadaka Street!"

That had me cracked up for hours.

I lvoe how the terrorists only have like a 10 word vocabulary.

Jihad, Muhammed, Daka Daka! lol

Not to mention the "hamina hanina hanina, infidel!" I love how Trey and Matt butcher Arabic. Strangely, they seem to get their Spanish right in their South Park episodes.

I was going to see the movie, but right now I am broke due to my mess of bills. Maybe I'll go see it after this weekend when I get paid.

On Fark a while back, I found the link for an "Anal Massage" on the Target website. Heh heh.

I really want to know what an "anal massage" entails.

There has been some speculation and hilarious discussion about that on the Fark threads as well.

http://forums.fark.c...?IDLink=1224201

On Fark a while back, I found the link for an "Anal Massage" on the Target website. Heh heh.

If you put on the tape right, it willl create more pressure, thus increasing power and range. In my experience, I have found electrical tape to work quite nicely, but I don't tape my stefans often as it can be labor-intensive.

Come to think of it, I found some of these at my Local Walgreens as well. Maybe Hasbro decided to do a re-release there, which may seem a little strange.

Since most Super Soakers require so many pumps to fire a single shot, I think that you would be better off building a homemade Nerf gun. They usually require fewer pumps, and are more useful in a Nerf war.

I think Gaebo modified his CPS2000 to fire nerf darts, which I believe would go farther than shooting a stream of water.

I bet one of their games is "Who's nipple shows first".

I can see it now.

"Hey, your nipple is showing, you're gone!"

"What are you talking about? I have three dumbshit."

*squirts other guy*

"Now who's nipples are showing?"

"Hey, not fair, you have an advantage... plus, that water made my nipples hard, you can see them easier."

"Want me to fix that problem with a nice massage?"

Oh my dear god where was that going? Oh yeah, child molestation...

Actually, I was thinking about girls and wet t-shirt contests when I was reading this. That would be fun! Hmmm........now I have more of a reason to get a few good soakers.......

Yeah, those pics of Commander Bob seem a little scary. If I had kids, I would be a little afraid of them going over to have a water fight. I wonder if Michael Jackson ever tried this during the summers at Neverland Ranch.......

Actually, I was thinking about girls and wet t-shirt contests when I was reading this. That would be fun! Hmmm........now I have more of a reason to get a few good soakers.......



Unfortunately, I had seen those pictures of our good friend Commando Bob. Guess what I was thinking. I just gagged.

My mind was kind of wandering for a few seconds there (white shirts, no bras, no problem! ) when I was reading about the nipple post, so the child molestation thing was blocked from my brain for a little. I didn't get around to seeing all of the pics of Commander Bob, except for the ones that were posted on this thread. I do agree, the idea of a 50ish guy with a water gun fetish does seem scary for little kids , but he is enjoying something he likes, just like we are, so I don't think we should be too prejudiced and hipocritical.

Yeah, the soaker tag targets are an interesting idea on Hasbro's part, but as Doom said, there are many other ways to make your own targets instead of buying them from Hasbro.

Whenever I played with Super Soakers as a kid, we just sprayed each other until we got completely wet. There was never any elimination rules.

I have to hand it to Commander Bob, though. The new Super Soakers that came out this year look more like complete shit compared to what they used to make years ago. I just hope Hasbro will take the hint that they should stick to toy quality and functionality, instead of adding cheesy gimmicks no one really cares about.

If you look around, most of the homemades on this site can be considered loser material, as they are pretty powerful. If you do some reading and experimenting, you can devise your own ideas and plans for making a homemade. I also know many of the other Nerf sites have plans and ideas for building homemades.

I remember back in the days of Nerf Online, someone posted about taking a stefan, and loading it in a 410 gauge shotgun, using a shell with the shot removed. Claimed the sucker could go about 2000+ feet. In reality though, I think that the dart would just incinerate from the heat of the gunpowder burning.

I'm sorry, CaptainCC, but you may need to get your eyes checked to read your ranges better. There is no way in hell that a spring-loaded gun can fire a stefan 350', even after heavy modding and physics-degree-esque precision tuning.

This reminds me of the days when Xcaliber posted about his Strongarm that shot 60+ or 80 feet or whatever.

Ompa, you just made my day with that post! Funny stuff.

I don't really know what can be done about these guns, as I have never really seen them. Take them apart and try seeing if you can do the basic modifications (barreling, rubber banding, removing air restrictors, plugging the overflow, etc.) to these guns first. With a little imagination, you can be amazed at what you can come up with for other ideas.

Pyro stuff is fun. The grenade idea is cool, but just be careful not to burn too many things.

This idea seems a little too dangerous to me. If shit ignites, you have a big problem to deal with, Good luck explaining to the fire department and other authorities why the woods or house burned down.

I also have a SSII, and I recommend making a nested brass barrel. The mods section on this site has some great info on this.

I agree with what Oompa said. I know, many newbies can be annoying, but they are vital to expanding the Nerf Community. In several cases, I have seen newbies annoying the crap out of the regulars and vets, but over time, they grow up and turn out okay. If we don't accept and be patient with newbies, Nerfing as we know it may weaken in interest and die off, which is one thing that I don't want to see happening.

Instead of making it double barrel, why not just make the barrel extra long, and stuff multiple darts down there. You can still achieve the shotgun effect doing this.

Would the flood control catch that?

I'll have to start using Pen Missle and Tiger Claw next time I play Rock, Paper, Scissors. According to Saddam and Tariq Aziz, Tiger Hand always beats paper, but what does Pen Missle beat? Rock?

Even after seeing that over 100 times, I still find it funny. That is some of the most creative captioning I have ever seen.

Double paper beats rock.

Saddam: DUDE, DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF is two papers?

Judge: Two papers are better. Two papers cover the rock TWICE. That fucking rock ain't going NOWHERE

Saddam:
I've got your two papers RIGHT HERE. NOW PLAY SERIOUS, ASS

I can't believe that I didn't think about that before. Part of the answer was right in front of my face the whole time!

Cx, good job thinking up the complete rules for our new weapons we can now use when playing RPS.

Most of us are gonna be pretty old when Big Haul can get get back on.

If I get a chance, I will post a link to the pic of the Nite Finder. I just picked up a few of these yesterday, and started modding one of them. I took out the air restrictors and the peg inside the barrel. Now, it shoots a little better, and can fire Stefans. I tried replacing the stock barrel with a copper one, but it shot like crap. I am still trrying to figure out what caused this. Has anyone ever tried modifying the NF with a copper or brass barrel with reasonable success. If so, I would like to find out what I am doing wrong.

Mystic's right. Most of the guns have a simple firing mechanism. I think it would be interesting if someone came up with making a Nerf gun using parts other than PVC, though.

It's great to be able to help with ideas.

Right now, I'm broke, so I don't have any money to put together a larger scale project like this. I wonder if anyone else has any ideas on material components. Another idea that I was thinking for the casings was to make it out of full metal. It would be interesting to see someone come out with something like that.

According to my research, I believe that the Studio Creations design is the simplest and cheapest vacuum form table to make. I haven't bought the Lindsay book on vacuum forming, but that may also have some great ideas in there.

It's great to know that I have given you a great idea, Katachi. As I may have mentioned, the injection molding book has a design for making a molding machine for smaller parts, usually up to about an ounce.

Thanks for the further info. It's great to hear from someone with more experience in this field. Some of the ideas that I had for a Chainblazer-like gun involved using full-metal parts to make it more durable and otherwise kickass. Now that I live closer to my parents, who have a garage full of metalworking equipment and tools, I have easier access to making the stuff I want. Let me know how your plastic-working projects turn out.