Jump to content


Photo

Reverse Engineering

why not?

40 replies to this topic

#1 rusty

rusty

    Member

  • Members
  • 159 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 05:43 PM

I was wondering if anyone has ever tryed reverse engineering any nerf gun. It should be to hard for spring guns all you'd need is the measurments for the plunger, the plunger tube, and some other things. I'll try if someone will give me the measurements for a crossbow.
  • 0

#2 poopsabe

poopsabe

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:04 PM

:unsure: huh i dont get wat ur talkin about, reverse engineering?
  • 0

#3 sporkboyofjustice

sporkboyofjustice

    Member

  • Members
  • 280 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:10 PM

Well Lanard does that kind of stuff all of the time. I hope that they can keep it up without getting sued though.
  • 0

#4 cxwq

cxwq

    Member

  • Founders
  • 3,634 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:12 PM

The term "reverse engineer" is generally applied in the realm of programming but can be used generally to mean "take a finished product and determine how it was constructed".

So... what the hell are you talking about? We all know how Nerf guns are made.
  • 0
<meta name="cxwq" content="mostly water">

#5 rusty

rusty

    Member

  • Members
  • 159 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:40 PM

I mean that you could take tubing, springs, etc. of the exact same size of your favorite nerf gun and then build an exact replica of that nerf gun. If someone could do it fast enough with crossbows they could make alot of money selling them
  • 0

#6 hellsangel

hellsangel

    Member

  • Members
  • 154 posts
  • Location:Gettysburg, PA

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:47 PM

And I could be mistaken but thats what we like to call illeagal patent infringment.
  • 0
What would the robit do? Frame someone! -Futurama

I have 7 kids.
7!? Lady I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth once and a while!-Groucho Marks(The End of Live TV)

#7 poopsabe

poopsabe

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:47 PM

Wat?
my advice would be to just mod the gun then sell it insted of takin out the insides and makin a new gun ;)

Edited by poopsabe, 17 March 2004 - 06:50 PM.

  • 0

#8 hellsangel

hellsangel

    Member

  • Members
  • 154 posts
  • Location:Gettysburg, PA

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:49 PM

I think he means to measure a gun and buy the exact parts for it and sell the copies he makes which again is illeagal.
  • 0
What would the robit do? Frame someone! -Futurama

I have 7 kids.
7!? Lady I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth once and a while!-Groucho Marks(The End of Live TV)

#9 poopsabe

poopsabe

    Member

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:53 PM

o i got it
but wouldnt that be hard if u dont have a plastic press to make the shape of the outside of the gun let alone the detailed parts of the barrels and such that nerf makes ;)

Edited by poopsabe, 17 March 2004 - 06:55 PM.

  • 0

#10 cxwq

cxwq

    Member

  • Founders
  • 3,634 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 06:59 PM

All he's talking about is a spring homemade. It's not that big a deal and it's been done before.

As far as legality, assuming the outer casing was different than the original gun, it's a gray area. There's no way he'd be prosecuted though unless he stamped Nerf on the side of the gun...
  • 0
<meta name="cxwq" content="mostly water">

#11 Groove

Groove

    Certified Badass

  • Founders
  • 1,673 posts
  • Fucks Given:0
  • Location:Irvine
  • State:California
  • Country:United States

Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:05 PM

What? You mean, like....THIS?!?!
Posted Image
Yeah, I know - not the same thing. I just had to post, as I remember Spoon and I cracking up in Cx's garage before Armageddon last year when we noticed it.

"It will be NERF! GAH!"
  • 0

"Too close for missiles, I'm switchin' to guns"


#12 J cobbers

J cobbers

    Member

  • Members
  • 586 posts
  • Location:Fort Hood, TX
  • State:Texas
  • Country:United States

Posted 17 March 2004 - 07:37 PM

Eventually the patent will run out on the classic nerf guns and we should be able to make copies of the old guns legally. The only real problem is casting the parts with the correct type of plastics and manufacturing the rubber ends of plungers in guns like the LnL and Crossbow.
  • 0

Don't forget to eat your meat based vegetable substitute children.


#13 MysticFalcon182

MysticFalcon182

    Member

  • Members
  • 269 posts

Posted 17 March 2004 - 11:47 PM

Don't patents last for an extremely long time?

And essentially all Nerf guns and homemades are like this... Pump with a valve and air tank along with a barrell... Or spring and plunger and barrell...

~Mystic~
  • 0

#14 Oroku Saki

Oroku Saki

    Member

  • Members
  • 453 posts
  • Location:Rhinelander, WI

Posted 18 March 2004 - 01:31 AM

I am not a legal expert on this, but I heard that some of the patents out there expire after 10-20 years if I am correct. Depending on what is patented and who patents it (individuals or corporations) this time period may be longer.

If someone reverse engineers a toy, and makes a copy of it, I do not see how they can get into trouble unless they started to mass produce and sell the copies. As Cx said, taking basic parts or ideas from a gun, and making a similar gun with a different look is rather in the grey area in terms of copyright violations.

If you are doing this for personal reasons (making your own guns), I don't think that there is anything to worry about, but if you are doing it to make money, it might be a good idea to check with a legal expert before you get started.

Edited by Oroku_Saki, 18 March 2004 - 01:41 AM.

  • 0
"Do you like gladiator movies, Johnny?"

#15 Techno-Dann

Techno-Dann

    Member

  • Members
  • 120 posts
  • Location:Seattle Area

Posted 18 March 2004 - 02:30 PM

The trick with reverse-engineering a gun is getting the parts fabricated. I personally don't have access to a plastic molding facility. Instead, it would be easier for us to use premade components, usually in the form of PVC pipe and fittings. If you have access to a plastic molding facility, I'm sure that there would be those of us who would be interested in some copied guns.
  • 0
Do not mess with CXWQ, for he has Admin powers and will bann your flaming little a**.

Techno-Dann of the Seattle Tactical Nerf Team

#16 Half Newb Half Nerfer

Half Newb Half Nerfer

    Member

  • Members
  • 737 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 02:52 PM

:blink: huh i dont get wat ur talkin about, reverse engineering?

Well, of course you did'nt get what he was talking about. Your names poopsabe for godsake.

Edited by 1/2 Newb 1/2 Nerfer, 18 March 2004 - 02:53 PM.

  • 0

#17 sporkboyofjustice

sporkboyofjustice

    Member

  • Members
  • 280 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 03:17 PM

If you are doing this for personal reasons (making your own guns), I don't think that there is anything to worry about, but if you are doing it to make money, it might be a good idea to check with a legal expert before you get started.

If I remember correctly you can pretty much do whatever you want with patented designs for personal use but if you make money off of it then you are in trouble. I once met a guy at Disneyland that worked at a print shop and he was wearing a cool Disney themed shirt that he had made. Since he didn't make any money off of it Disney really didn't care.
  • 0

#18 rusty

rusty

    Member

  • Members
  • 159 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:45 PM

Legally if I build the nerf guns with certain modifications already on them then it wouldn't be infringing nerfs patents would it?

Also if i make replicas of the pieces of nerf guns out of a stronger substance then plastic, like a metal crossbow plunger shaft, that should make patents void.

Could someone take these measurements on a lock and load:
plunger shaft length, plunger shaft diameter, piston tube length, barrel length (from the end of the piston tube to tip)

Edited by THEengineer, 18 March 2004 - 05:16 PM.

  • 0

#19 hellsangel

hellsangel

    Member

  • Members
  • 154 posts
  • Location:Gettysburg, PA

Posted 18 March 2004 - 05:11 PM

It's the design thats patented not the material its made from so no matter what substance you use its still illeagal to make and sell copies of the guns untill the patent has expired.
  • 0
What would the robit do? Frame someone! -Futurama

I have 7 kids.
7!? Lady I love my cigar, but I take it out of my mouth once and a while!-Groucho Marks(The End of Live TV)

#20 Oroku Saki

Oroku Saki

    Member

  • Members
  • 453 posts
  • Location:Rhinelander, WI

Posted 18 March 2004 - 05:58 PM

I think it may be a better idea to come up with both better designs and materials to make the guns, than to make direct copies of stuff. Making your own original guns would be a kickass idea. If you are looking to sell it though, you should first find out what concepts and designs are patented, and which ones are not. As far as most of us know, the designs for Nerf guns may be patented, but the internal mechanisms may not be. Has anyone heard of any lawsuits filed between Lanard and Hasbro?
  • 0
"Do you like gladiator movies, Johnny?"

#21 Zero Talent

Zero Talent

    Member

  • Contributors
  • 606 posts

Posted 18 March 2004 - 09:33 PM

Hehehe... Well, when you get the molding plant going, call me. Perhaps I'll share some of my cold fusion. ^_^

Just get a job. You'll make more money for your time.
  • 0
"'Revere me as hot! All others are not! THIS, I COMMAND!'"
- Death

#22 Oroku Saki

Oroku Saki

    Member

  • Members
  • 453 posts
  • Location:Rhinelander, WI

Posted 19 March 2004 - 12:14 AM

Actually, I acquired a book on making a small, tabletop homemade injection molding machine. Lindsay Publications prints it, and you can buy it directly from them. They also have some other cool books.

The injection machine book is here: http://www.lindsaybk...ject/index.html

With my job and stuff, I haven't gotten around to building the injection machine, but I think it may prove useful in making smaller parts.

For the larger parts, it may be more of a challenge. One idea that I can think of is to vacuum form plastic to a plaster mold. Vaccum forming is used by movie prop makers. (one of the most well-known uses is for Stormtrooper Armor) Basically, a vacuum form unit is a table with a hole in the middle. Under the table, a vacuum hose is hooked up, and the mold is placed over the hole. When molding, the softened plastic is sucked onto the mold by the vacuum.

Edit: I just found out that Lindsay also prints a book on vacuum forming, which is at this link: http://www.lindsaybk...vacf/index.html

Looking at the pictures of this Vacuum Forming machine, I think that some of the other prop making places on the internet have ideas for making a simpler and cheaper vacuum forming table.

One of my favorite prop sites has a good section on vacuum forming, which is here: http://www.studiocre...able/index.html

Another idea that I was thinking about would be to somehow make parts from metal or other materials. If only I had easier access to metal machining equipment.



UPDATE: Speaking of patents, if Hasbro had anything patented on their Nerf guns, they would have the patent information listed on the box or the gun itself. Looking at all the Nerf guns that I own, I do not see anything marked for this. The only thing that I see is a copyright date. I even checked on the box for the Nite Finder, and all I see is a copyright date. This probably explains why Lanard has not gotten into trouble for reverse engineering Nerf guns, since they don't slap the Nerf label on their stuff.

Edited by Oroku_Saki, 19 March 2004 - 05:06 PM.

  • 0
"Do you like gladiator movies, Johnny?"

#23 MysticFalcon182

MysticFalcon182

    Member

  • Members
  • 269 posts

Posted 24 March 2004 - 05:53 PM

Avatar thief.

Really, Nerf guns use the same mechanism and system to fire. As I said, pump, air tank, barrel, or plunger, spring, barrel.

~Mystic~

Edited by MysticFalcon182, 24 March 2004 - 05:54 PM.

  • 0

#24 Oroku Saki

Oroku Saki

    Member

  • Members
  • 453 posts
  • Location:Rhinelander, WI

Posted 24 March 2004 - 06:04 PM

Mystic's right. Most of the guns have a simple firing mechanism. I think it would be interesting if someone came up with making a Nerf gun using parts other than PVC, though.
  • 0
"Do you like gladiator movies, Johnny?"

#25 Zero Talent

Zero Talent

    Member

  • Contributors
  • 606 posts

Posted 24 March 2004 - 09:28 PM

Home vacuum molding operations? Well, now we're getting into interesting territory!

Simply taking a "lego" approach to the whole idea will obviously be a lot easier, so unless vacuum sealing is easier to learn and set up than I imagine, its main applications seem to be in casings, and some other large-scale specialized parts. So really, aesthetics. Which a lot of designs could use, in retrospect... :D

Awesome linking, thanks!
  • 0
"'Revere me as hot! All others are not! THIS, I COMMAND!'"
- Death


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users