Hello I recently did full motor replacement and rewire on a rapidstrike. I was looking at IMR and Trustfire batteries, but have seen some videos and vape forms on batteries exploding and failing. Has anyone on here had any batteries fail?

i have seen videos on li-ion trust/sure/ultra fires 18650 laptop cells venting i have also seen videos of li-po turnigy packs venting after swelling like a balloon and i have personally seen a samsung phone battery swell up 3 times the size it is supposed to be.


I have never found an IMR video on them venting only them getting purposely shorted getting to almost 200F fusing the wire then dropping to 0v

Efest makes a 26650 IMR cell with high discharge up to 30A that would fit in the stock rapidstrike tray with a little modding.

I've been researching a bit about batteries for the RS this past weekend since I just ordered a new RS from Target.

Anyway, from the information I've found, Trustfire or other Li-Ion 14500, 18650, 26650 cells are not good for our blasters because they dont have enough current output capability.

IMRs are better as they do provide enough current, as Lunas suggested. It seems like Efest Purple cells are the most popular. Efest 26650 IMR cells would fit in the stock battery tray since the cells are the same diameter as C-size Alkalines, but they're 15mm longer. From my personal searching, I though the GREEN Efest 26650 IMRs would be best since they provide less current than the Purples but have more capacity and the current is still enough for Nerf uses.

However, I've also had a few people convince me to go with the RC battery pack route and directly wire the battery rather than use the stock or any battery holder as those have inherently high resistance.

I had a lot of advice from others on the Nerf sub-reddit: http://www.reddit.co...in_rapidstrike/

I have a Rapidstrike i upgraded the battery tray with a pair of 18650s in series for 8.4-7.4v the stock wiring is fine for the stock motors and stock contacts if you motor swap you will want to run wires to the end of the springs or to another method of connecting the tray or direct wire to a pack the stock springs and contacts should be good up to about 10A if you are running motors that can pull more than that perhaps epoxying a connector to the inside and then to the battery tray would be a good idea.

Question, how much of a performance difference do you notice with 18650s while keeping everything else stock?

I've been conflicted as to how I want to modify my own RS.

RC Pack + Charger = $40 after shipping from Hobbyking
2x18650 = $15-ish + another $15-25 for a charger (like a Nitecore D2/D4)
2x26650 = $22 for battery + charger ^

It seems like with stock wiring/internals, the RC pack wouldn't provide and extra performance over the IMR solutions. But for a slightly higher "price of entry", the RC pack route has more leftover potential for future upgrades.

night and day vs c batteries the darts fly 50-80Ft i can empty the full clip in about 3-4 seconds and it spins up rather quick.

I bought a nitecore d4 and my batteries. I really like the d4. And i have flashlights and usb chargers that use 18650 cells.

Everyone bashes against trustfire/ultrafire batteries. What's the problem? They make a normal flywheel blaster shoot substantially harder, with little/no modification to the circuit, motors, or shell.

The issues occur due to multi cell use with the uneven discharge this causes hot cells that can vent fire hot hydrofluric acid possibly into your face. Li-mn and li-fe just get hot then stop working. Lipo batteries can on a whim swell to 3 times the correct size and vent hydrogen typically on fire so you have a torch burning hot enough to melt steel followed by a lithium fire you can't just put out with water or most fire extinguishers.

But that's fine if you want to melt your face off you may.

then there is the fake fires sold on amazon and eBay which can be old cells forced to take a charge literally ticking time bombs can go off left in a drawer with nothing to short it. or small 30mAh cells stuffed into the can with flour or plaster to make the weight right. So it charges shows voltage but only has 30mAh instead of 3000mAh.

you will see lots of issues showing up in relation to vaping but realize vaping is shorting high resistance wire to produce heat so intentional shorting of a dangerous cell... If they used control boards to prevent a short on the battery they would not have mods becoming rocket propelled cylinders.

Err to be clear though, I wouldn't consider IMRs to be a drop-in for the RS unless you want to use the low capacity 14500 cells with AA to C spacer/converters.

The 18650 and 26650 cells are both longer than the standard C cell alkaline battery. So you would need to do at least a tiny bit of modification to get them to fit.

They are longer than a single c by about 1 inch not enough to take the place of 2 c inline.

I bought a 18650 2s1p protected battery tray and used 2 sided tape to stick it in the battery tray i used a rotary tool to remove the center divider and drilled out a hole to enlarge the area where the contacts sit and i soldered the wires directly to the contacts

Thinking back to how i modded it one could probably solder 16 awg to the plate and run it through the holes into the tray. Or you could sit both halfs of an xt60 connector on the one side of the shell with one in the battery tray would preserve the function of the tray while allowing the use of 30-60A IMR 26650 (MORE THAN ENOUGH AMPS).

It is not even dummy cells since you need 2 you need a spacer at one end just under an inch thick with a thick wire connecting the 2 cells

That said a 18650 is more easily available and useful in more ways I have 12 18650 I got from laptop batteries 4 from flashlights and 2 imr for my rs

This. "Traditional" lithium batteries, i.e. not IMR, have been used for a long time in all sorts of electronics with varying levels of protections, failures are pretty rare.
As long as you stick with something that is purpose made for the task, and is of high quality, you'll be fine.

Quality RC packs for example, are built for high discharge applications and the cells within the pack were properly matched. Those wont give you issues.

Trustfire and similar Lithium cells are bad and labeled as dangerous by some since they're not meant for high discharge at all. So when you demand a lot from those batteries, they get hot quick and thats when things can get dangerous.



its all good.

Yep nothing wrong with lithium cells as long as you don't abuse them. Non IMR typically only have issues with the following; multiple cells not equally charged in series, cells that have been fully killed then recharged, cells that are overcharged, cells with physical damage, or shorting the neg to positive terminals. With a quality charger like the nitecore i2/4 d2/4 or imax b6. It would be fine to use them.

But that said nerf is a sport jarring and dropping blasters are common.

Been meaning to find the time to post my tray

https://www.dropbox....032247.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox....032304.jpg?dl=0

I am going to eventually open my RS and when i do I may add another method of transferring power from tray to gun im thinking of mounting a xt60 connector to the occupied side of the gun so i could open it without cutting the negative terminal again... If i ever do make this modification ill make my own thread on how i did it.

like he said ^ MANDATE eye ware at my last event i did not bring my eye wear and got hit in my eye with a stock retaliator it hurt like hell even though it was stock.

I would place certified stock or under 110 fps with stock darts only as my rules 80-110 fps will still shoot over 100ft

EBay trust fires... do we need to go over the biggest source for counterfeit cells again. They are not even cheaper than the red efest on amazon.

Buy the purple efest and mod for 18650 size or the 14500 red v2 they do about 10A the purple do 30A-60A though finding them in 14500 has been not fun. Also the eBay auction listed those at aaa size or 10440. Either the lister has a typo or he knows nothing about batteries.

I used my calipers a while back to measure mine it is about 28mm deep 117mm long and 54mm wide you should be able to fit 2 26650 batteries side by side if you cut out the center support and the 2 end supports you will have about 1cm at each end of the battery you would need to adjust for...

Ill redo my measurements later tonight and repost but those are the numbers i remember from when i measured mine. you do get a bit more room by dropping the tray and just using the front. But I like to keep my nerf guns semi stock and would like to if i have to drop back to stock.

Update:

I found out that its never the same barrel that doesnt shoot as far. Sometimes the gun fired 6/6 nicely, other times its a 5/6, and other times its a low 3/6 or 2/6. Any way i can avoid this?

sounds like dart wear you might want to check the foam pad on the plunger if it is damaged or worn that is the seal that hits the cylinder and makes the seal to fire the dart. that spring might be weak or broken.

What store might have NIMH packs?

I think this same battery is available in radioshack.

(sorry about the quote backspaced too far.

i doubt that pack has more than a 5A discharge. The wires are so thin...

http://hobbyking.com..._Lipo_Pack.html

has anyone tried something like these http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B0057QCGRM
and if so are they the same thing as like trustfires?

no they are better but not high discharge like you need those are 1C so 400 mA.

these would be better http://www.amazon.co...rds=efest 14500 and do close to 10A discharge if you can jump 1 more size up to 18650 purple efests can do 30A

people do 14500 in stryfe due to the clean look and in the case of rapid strikes they stick them in AA to C adapters and get drop in upgradability you are into heavy mod territory you might as well go full bore.

the rapid strike has alot more options especially if you don't shorten it.

The only mod i have done to my rapid strike is in the battery tray i put a 18650 2p1s battery tray in and soldered it to the contacts.


you could potentially go up to 26650 IMR in the stock tray and as long as you dont run more than 2 the stock pusher will only go slightly faster than 4 c cells.


*fire anything sucks and is likely a clone. i like my efest "IMR" 18650. there are 3 types of 18650 out there lifepo4 3.2 volt these are rare and expensive but take abuse readily and keep going. the normal trustfire li-ion cells these are not what your looking for same thing in laptop packs but the laptop packs might be better quality slight fire hazard... then what you want IMR Li-MN these are high discharge slightly less capacity than the li-ion might melt the gun a bit when they fail but not fire.


18650 would have about 2400mAh of capacity 14500 have 700mAh this means longer run time a 26650 would have about 3800mAh for double the run time of a pair of 18650.

Videos I can not make. With a quad shot it is easy to get 30 feet of distance...with about as much spread as a standard width door.

The spread is going to be pretty dependent on how you make your shells. Where you point the barrels determines where they go. I made all mine as straight as possible.

EDIT: I am also bumping as I have added a list of all the mods I've done to this baby.

how far does the single go and did you do anything to the launcher piston

I've got no idea how far the single goes. The quad shells are much more useful.

And I only lubed up the launcher piston. Nothing else.

i saw a mod where they teflon wrapped the piston 4 times and put a thicker o ring in his demo and got his missiles to go 45 ft his he also showed all of the compression was in the last inch of the launcher.

The main question is, are 2 14500 efests enough?

the 14500 are only available in 700mAh and only about 9.85A max draw per cell fine for stock not 180s

by jumping up to 18650 you can get 2400mAh @ 30A per cell 180s can do fine a 2s li-po is cheaper sort

jump up to 26650 you can get 3500mAh @ 64A purple efest per cell or 4200mAh @ 50A green efest


mAh = run time

figure adverage of 5 amps while spinning then 10-20A on start up for a split second

the difference in the flywheel XD vs just the elite was a new flywheel cage with the wheels a few mm closer together to give them a better grip on the dart.

There isn't. People just don't want to buy the LiPo pack and the appropriate charger since it ends up being a bit more expensive. It's probably for the best since LiPo's are actually kind of unsafe for the average user who isn't taking care when using them. Individual cells have their place for that reason.

I cant be the only one that has devices that use the numbered cells. I have 2 flashlights that run on the 18650 3 that run on 14500 and a cell phone charger that takes 18650s

now i have a stryfe and a rapid strike that uses them...

i have 0 drones 0 remote control vehicles that use the li-po why should i invest in li-po when i already had the cells...

Nevermind nerf trolls customers...

might be easier with a rapid strike

Why would you buy cells when you can rescue them from laptop batteries? I have easily 60 18650 cells for very little investment.

but those cells are only able to provide about 3 amps... no better than a trust fire. you would need to make a pack out of them for anything beyond flashlights or stock+ blasters.


IMR not typically used in laptop batteries is much better than any li-ion.

That is just about perfect except it might be too big to fit in a stryfe. Anything LiFePo4 is much safer than *fires. *fires are absolute sh1t.

they would be running close to stock voltage with 2 of them within margin of error on a alkaleak/lithium primary assuming 1.6v on all 4... without a motor swap it likely would not net you much of a gain.

where as a li-mn cell almost as safe as lifepo4 and 7.4-8.4v with 2 of them for 1.4-2.4v over volt on most motors.

Yea I do not want IMRs, I was just wondering if those would work. Maby I can find a better one.

Why not?

li-ion are the dangerous ones and are what most trustfires are.

li-mn are imr and are safe

Lifepo4 safest most durable chemistry...

Li-ion and li-mn are charged in the same charger and my charger the nitecore D4 has an option to charge lifepo4

Then again, you could always run more if you mount externally.

we are talking a stryfe and 18650 size cells personally speaking there is only so much bulk i would want hanging on the outside and 2 18650 is about my limit for pistol config but i suppose 2 on either side of the mag would fit too.

I just came across these: http://m.dx.com/p/us...ry-green-360333 and they seem to be too good to be true for the price.

those are li-ion the ones that are typically dangerous it also states the actual capacity is 1700mAh I would not be shocked if the 30A rating is the burst draw and the sustained is much lower.

Because they can vent and this is for a commission for a 12 year-old.

those are li-ions that vent

imr get hot that is it.



And

lifepo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XymqQ-YlfJ0

if you really need it to be drooling idiot proof drop the 180s get some plasma dash or tamyias and stick NiMh or alkalines

Does anyone here know what nimh aa's can discharge high enough for 180's?

the only nimh packs that can are ones like this http://www.summitrac...r3S6xoCpvTw_wcB

@jwasko
but yes i should have clarified that i was talking about dropping the 180 in favor of motors that run well at stock voltages and used normal batteries or standard rechargeables. But honestly if the kid is as dumb as the op is making him out to be then he should not be handling the gun in the first place he will likely put his own eye out or mangle a finger.

I have only done 1 thing to my rs at this point i modded the tray and put 2 18650 efest imr in.

looking back efest makes imr 26650 good up to 64A a 26650 is roughly the same around as a c cell but about 1 inch shorter than 2 c cells stacked so a spacer would need to be used.

btw a 26650 would be 3400mAh so 6800mAh of capacity beats the shit out of the 1000mAh 2s lipo and 30-64A vs 25A most 1000mAh lipo i have seen are 25c you take the c rating times the capacity to get the current dischargeable.

so a 26650 purple efest is roughly 50c.

The efest purple is 3.7v (recommended discharge not to exceed 2.5a)@ 3500mah, two of these would make 7.4v @ 3500mah with 32a / 64a discharge ( or 3.7V @ 7000mah) and cost $25.30

A 40C 2200mah 3S lipo is 11.1v with 80a / 100a discharge (apples /oranges)

OR...... a zippy compact 2S Lipo 2200mah 60C (which will fit in the RS) would be 7.4V 2200mah 132a / 154a and costs $13.28 which is approximately the cost of one efest purple sub C. The 2S would eat the efests for breakfast lunch and dinner and a snack and breakfast the next morning and leave you with almost enough cash to order the BSUK switch and wiring kit. I don't understand why any one would want to go that route. If the sub C's were that great then no RC guy would be running Lipos in their rigs. I have about 12 Nimh sub C packs in an ammo box that never seen the light of day once I plugged in my first lipo pack.

But, regarding the Op's usage and my assumption he already has the IMR batts... they are probably a good choice for just a quick juice up for the basement battle with the younger kids. Cost wise not efficient but to really harness the power of the lipos you will require additional upgrades which probably aren't in his best interest atm.

Last thought, the stock 22 or 23 awg wire can fuse at around 10amps so if you want to juice up in any regard then a re-wire is really recommended. Last thing anyone wants is a slizzling blaster or a battery shorting out and popping.

http://www.efestpower.com/Product/123409115.html

where did you pull your numbers from

i don't wish to quip back and forth on IMR vs li-po but they both have their places IMR has more uses than just nerf if you vape or have a high end flash lights just as lipo have uses in R/C vehicle and nerf. Yes li-po are the best choice but i prefer IMR.

i would think texturing it would be better than coating it with anything very light roughing up with sandpaper?

That's why I was wondering about bed armour. Thick, rough and rubber based. Seems like it couldn't hurt...

it could there are 2 thing you don't want to do 1 knock them out of balance 2 make them heavier and thus slower to spin up.

the force of the dart leaving the barrels is derived mainly from the speed at which the fly wheels spin. Torque is if the flywheels keep spinning under load as well as the mass of load and resistance to slowing down. Grip is what allows a the dart to receive the kinetic energy if a dart was too slick and not enough grip the fly wheels will just rip it up as it leaves.

the question is with the materials used which produces more friction a glass smooth surface or a rougher surface.

Do you think if the flywheel had an indentation for the innertube section to sit inside it, that it would stay in place? I can get something like this made and test it relatively easily/cheaply.

the centrifugal force is spinning the tube off the wheels only better glue or thermal bonding would help.

i donno i get pushing the envelope but there is a correlation to how inaccurate a shot it is vs how hard it is flung out you hit this plateau very easy. How many full customs accurately shoot foam over 200 FPS and to how far is that accurate? And i can tell you this 100 fps hits hard enough. Anything higher you might as well just go paintball.

Dont bother with the laser i got a red airsoft laser that goes on a tact rail and it was useless ripped it off soon after...

as for the 2s

8 AA batteries adds alot of weight to it doesn't it but it sounds beast you might want to look into IMR 14500 batteries they are AA size and can handle more amperage output than a alkaline.

If you want to go the pack route then your really only limited by where you can fit it you could run a cable to a belt pouch with a 10,000 mAh battery in it.

And as for motors i would not bother until the stock ones burn up then look at rc racing motors hyper dash ect but keep in mind they are meant to run on 3v-6v not 7.4-12

I can't say much about the 130 form factor motors. However, here is some information that may help with the 14500 batteries.

What you have to understand is that none of the batteries are made by the companies selling them. Trustfire, ultrafire, tangsfire, etc., are all resellers of these cells. The original LiCo cells are manufactured by companies such as Samsung and Sanyo and they are not sold individually.

This leads to a few issues. We have no idea where those batteries are coming from and they may very well be recycled or quality control failures. And two, the claims of battery capacity are completely false. Regardless of what the reseller has printed on the label, the 14500's will carry about 400-600mah and the 18650's around 1600-1800mah. I have heard that the Efest brand uses a different chemistry and can supply higher currents, however I have not personally tested them. At least they don't lie about the capacity of the battery, anyway.

Li-ion they use colbalt and some other materials they typically are the ones that vent and there are alot of counterfit batteries labled trustfire or ultrafire i recommend avoiding these batteries. most will handle 1A discharge some will handle up to 3-4A discharge.

Efest IMR is Li-MN or lithium manganese these are safer they can still vent but tests have shown dead shorts only causing them to heat up to around 170F then quit and read 0 volts. They can be charged just fine in the same charger as li-ion and these can put out around 10A so they will be better for recovery and stall... I use these they are made by efest and i find 2 of them work great.

Li-fe these are supposedly safer yet and are more durable however this chemistry touts a lower voltage of 3.3 as such these can not be charged in a li-ion charger and must be charged in a charger that supports them. Tenergy makes these and they have been having issues with counterfeiting.

As for a charger i suggest a nitecore d2 or i2 the newest model should handle any type of battery you have they will even do Nicd or NIMH and li-fe

http://www.amazon.co...rds=nitecore d2

http://www.amazon.co...rds=efest 14500

Also these batteries Lipo li-ion li-mn all 3 of these are considered discharged and in need of being recharged when they hit about 3.2 volts per cell this is still enough to spin the motors and fire just fine but continuing to drain them past this point will damage them. Li-ion when abused either over discharge or over charge tend to vent and cause fires.

To let me know when my batteries are low i put one of these in my stryfe http://www.amazon.co...voltage display

It has a calibration pot on it and i did calibrate mine to my multimeter and i hooked it up to the jam door switch so when i open the door it turns on. I did not cut a hole for it i just hot glued it to the inside of the plastic where i had room as it is bright enough to shine through the plastic it looks a bit fuzzy but is readable.

And for dummy batteries... you will need the following
Solid copper wire 16 gauge preferable i used 18
a AA battery for reference
a piece of paper standard printer paper is what i used
tape or elmers glue or wood glue (i recommend glue it makes for a more durable finished product.)
a pair of needle nose pliers
a pair of scissors

cut your self a piece of wire about 2 inches longer than a AA battery
now cut a strip of paper exactly as wide as a AA battery is long not out to the button on the positive side place wire at one end with a small bit hanging out the positive side and a longer bit hanging out the negative side start the roll and put some glue down as you roll the wire the paper will quickly make it the size of a AA battery when it reaches the size of a AA cut off the remainder of the paper and tape or hold while the glue sets. after the glue sets take the needle nose and curl the short bit of wire into a nub like the battery and coil the longer end tightly to form a plate at the negative end when done you should have a wire the size of a AA battery that fits and passes voltage and current over the wire. You could make the blank longer to be as long as 2AA end to end as well I find that a piece of printer paper length wise makes a AA battery when wrapped around 18 gauge solid core. You can get about 4 blanks out of one sheet.

Is there any Canadian here? Where can we get supply like batteries,chargers and maybe even motors online? Hobbyking is charging like 30$ for shipping and couldnt find a half decent canadian store...

amazon is where i get my stuff they have the turnigy battery packs too they dont seem to have any efests other than 18650 tho. that is on the Canadian site...

This motor:
http://www.tamiyausa...h-3-motor-15477

3-4 ultrafires is too much voltage and not enough current and will shorten the life of the motor. Run it on 1s IMR / Lipo, or a 3 or 4s NMH pack.

Also, unless someone posts chronograph numbers after coating the flywheels, I wouldn't mess with it at all. Anything you put on them will increase their weight which will increase the time it takes to spin up the motors. It will also decrease battery life from the increased load and will increase the amount of heat being generated in the motor which will shorten the life of the motor.

the op could run 3 in parallel to increase the amperage and capacity that could be pulled from the cells.

Hello Nerf Haven,
I have done all the basic mods to my strife (taken out electronic/mechanical locks and rewired) as well as replaced the stock motors with the Solarbotic's RM2s (This was a while ago, I realize now that it was a possible waste of money.)
I am now looking to buy the standard ultrafires/trustfires to up the voltage. I'm in Canada, so because of weird rules/lack of website support/Canadian import taxes that I'm definitely not an expert on, I (think) I need to order them from ebay.ca or amazon.ca. I have tried ordering a couple before but long story short I didn't receive them. There is also a lot of fake ultrafires that are being sold.

I came to ask my fellow Canadian's if they could give me a link(s) in order to buy 6 ultrafires/trustfires with a charger, and a dummy battery.

I would prefer for these to be tested sellers so I don't get scammed again. The number of batteries the charger supports doesn't concern me, I just need the correct batteries (size/voltage/capacity) in order to run in my stock AA battery tray.
Your help is very much appreciated.
Thanks, eh?

i would not go for anyfire...

amazon ships to canada
this site apparently stocks the but is oos right now http://www.canadaeju...ttery- Flat top

you want the red efest v2 size 14500 they should deliver around 9.8 amps if you can mod to fit 18650 size cells they have batteries that will do 64 amps purple efest

the v1 red efests do around 2 amps so make sure you get v2.

I made my own dummies out of paper and wire and wood glue...

The protection PCB should keep them safe. That's kind of the entire reason it's there.

That said, ultrafires are very unfit for this purpose. A brief google search fails to find their official safe discharge rate. Similar li-ion cells are rated to about 1-2C, which means these can really only deliver about 1A continuous. Those motors ask for 2.8-3.8A at 2.4-3.0V. You're feeding them 11.1V, so they're actually probably drawing somewhere in the ballpark of 10A or more at times. This is for one motor, you're driving two, so double that. 20A is something that even unprotected ultrafire 14500s will never, ever be able to do unless you run something like 10 or 15 of them in parallel.

Ultrafires and their cousin trustfires have their place, but driving motors is not it. Feeding 11.1V to motors rated for 3 is not a good place to be either. Sure, the Tamiyas might be able to handle it, but I'd be very careful. What you really should do is get a 1S (lithium) or 3cell (nickel) battery pack that can deliver enough current.

So back to the beginning question. Are your batteries safe? I'd say probably, but you're abusing the hell out of them, and I'm really not sure how the protection PCB will react.

When higher than normal current is drawn the protection shuts down the cell that cell that is not taking a charge either got discharged below or tripped the circuit. If you must go up to at least imr batteries they will be better off than the ultrafires which i would dispose of at this point or store them in a fire proof box. It sounds like the op over discharged them.

The best option would be a lipo 1s with the highest amperage he could find. Next a single purple efest 18650 30A. after that efest v2 14500 if possible 2 in parallel i have been toying with the idea of reworking my stryfe's battery box to have 2p2s efest 14500 v2 also i would recommend a voltage monitor addition to prevent over discharge in the future.