113 replies to this topic

[kingshane50]

I'm with everybody else on the "Hot damn, rear loading barrels" bandwagon.

Incredible stuff, as always--not just the mod, but the write-up and videos as well.

*Thumbs up*

^
My thoughts exactly. But, why do you always have to make me soil myself?! This is the 4th Time! Amazing work. Again. For real. I know what I'm gonna do next weekend.

[One Man Clan]

I have the attention span of a goldfish. There was a lot going on there, but I think it's something awesome. I just can't wrap my head around it. The more parts there are in a blaster, the less I want to mess around with it. FA, you have the patience I completely lack. Thanks for a PETG sales bump too with this monster.

[jwasko]

I would first like to say that you did a great job, Angel. I would also like to add that I almost certainly couldn't do this mod as well as you (or any of your mods, for that matter).

Also, I'd like to note that I just read the Eyes of Fire mod for the first time yesterday.

So, to get to the point...I'm not that impressed with the Doomsayer.

Now, would I be cowering in fear if I went up against it? Yes. Is it another great Angel production? Yes.

The rear-loading turret is amazingly practical, and the way that it was done here was elegant in its simplicity; perhaps equally importantly, it was successful. Still, it is something that has been tried and even accomplished before.

Cmdrmack asked: "How the hell do you plan on topping this?" Meanwhile, I'm still asking: "How the hell do you plan on topping the Eyes Of Fire?"

In sum: another great job, Angel. But, is it the best mod I've ever seen? No. In my opinion, Angel's LS and the Eyes of Fire were more impressive.

That's my honest opinion.

[Rambo]

jwasko - I am under the assumption that you have never attended an NIC event. Please correct me if I am wrong on that. As Angel stated, with this mod, he hoped to make a practical weapon for a war. His intentions, I believe, were not to create the most elaborate modification, or a gun for his Assassin games. Now, I'm not trying to say that you're dumb, but, as I am under the assumption that you haven't been to any real wars, just know that The Eyes Of Fire is not practical for an event(other than Assasins), whereas Doomsayer in immensely practical.

Edited by RAMBO, 01 October 2007 - 11:12 PM.

[jwasko]

You're right, Rambo, and I should have noted two things in my earlier post:

1. I have never attended a Nerf War (the one near me got canceled at the last minute )

2. I was not saying (and I did not mean to imply) that the Eyes of Fire was better in a war. In fact, I generally much preferred springers to somehthing like an RF20 or MS back during my kiddy wars (~10-12yrs ago).

What I meant to say, rather, was that the Doomsayer is not impressive on a...well, let's call it an "academic" level. I suppose this could have to do with how elaborate something is, too, although elaborate does not mean better. If you can accomplish far-reaching goals simply, I will give you high praise indeed (not that my praise matters, of course).

For examples of academic nerfing, first there is Boltsniper: he set a level to which all homemade springers are compared.

On the modification front, Angel (with the Eyes of Fire and, to a somewhat lesser extent, the LS) showed perfection in his modifications and how much a single person can improve the performance of a manufactured nerf gun while maintaining the look of awesomeness and reliability (if not improving on both).

Finally, the CSHG will definitely not be practical in a war; however, if CaptainSlug finishes it, the CSHG will show just how far Nerf can go technologically.

And I'm sure there will be even better examples in a few years of "nerf for nerf's sake," along with advances in keeping things practical enough for use in wars.

So, in the "academic" aspect, the Doomsayer isn't that great. Now, if I can ever get to a war, I'll probably think that the Doomsayer is the best thing since sliced bread. Or I'll just cower in fear; depends on which end of it I'm on. I definitely respect what Angel did and I'm sure it's great in a war, but for me it's just not awe-inducing on a purely "academic" level. That is what I was trying to get across in my previous post.

Edited by jwasko, 01 October 2007 - 11:43 PM.

[Cmdrmack]

The Doomsayer is an excellent step forward in modification. It synthesizes various concepts that have been in the works for a long time, improved rotational mechanisms have been sought by everyone who ever owned a Maverick. The barrel replacement with PETG may not be anything special now, but PETG hasn't been around (as a barrel material) very long. This thing manages to introduce a new concept, however, that will probably be it's lasting "academic" acheivment. The rear-loading turret.

Such a turret combines the high rate of fire characteristic of a turret with the low reload time of a single barrel. Making it a noteworthy accomplishment in its field.

If anything I would say that this is the paradigm of Nerf modification because it utilizes everything the NIC has developed as far as modifications up to this point. The Eyes of Fire are flashy, but they're at their heart just two RF20's bolted together in a very complex way, and converted from pumping to HPA tanks.

The Eyes of Fire are very impressive, but will probably never be used in a war. They're a novelty item. This is practical, and therefore crosses the last hurdle of nerf modifications.

1st: Does it perform its task better than when you pulled it out of the box
2nd: Does it look better than when you pulled it out of the box
3rd: Is it useful

The Eyes of Fire answers yes to the first two, the Doomsayer answers yes to all three.

[six-five-two]

edited out.

Edited by six-five-two, 02 October 2007 - 12:42 AM.

[Dayko]

That thing is a piece of art. Just beautiful.

Vary good job.

[deaddumpster]

Beautiful.

Just... Fucking beautiful.

Edited by deaddumpster, 21 July 2009 - 09:51 PM.

[Rambo]

jwasko - What you've said in your second post is what I thought you had said in the first, so if I'm still missing part of your point, I apologize. Not every mod should be a marvel to look at. This mod wasn't intended to be. I'm sure it could have been if he had wanted to do that, but that was not his goal. I'm not saying I don't like things of Eyes nature, but I do prefer practicality, and I think you will too once you've attended a war. Unlike Boltsniper, Angel has to work with the guns that he buys, he cannot design them 100%. For this reason he cannot always make something so flashy and practical. However, most people that have war experience(I think) can say that they like this quite a bit more than Eyes. Again, I appreciate the validity of the CSHG, FAR, Eyes, etc. that show the epitome of technology, but we don't always need it.

Edited by RAMBO, 02 October 2007 - 07:25 AM.

[One Man Clan]

That's pretty much the summation of what nerf modding is about. Well put there RAMBO. It's all about meeting the needs of the user. FA's mods serve different purposes, and serve them each well. Somewhere in there is that saying about bringing a knife to a gun fight, but I never understood that anyway.

[Groove]

Amazing job as always, Angel. Like OMC said, there's so many parts to this mod that I'm having a hard time processing it all. It looks amazingly in-depth but the results appear to be equally amazing. Keep up the good work.


-Groove

[Shorty]

(Sighs) We need something flashy AND practical. You got something Angel?

[Shorty]

I don't know, I thought this was pretty flashy. It's got a fucking painted skull on the front, how flashy do you want it? If he gave it a brown and grey paintjob with a stone pattern or something, it would look even better, though.

Uh dark colors arent flashy. He could have put lights or some shit, I dont know. It wasnt as flashy as "Eyes of Fire". But the thing is you dont need to be flashy in a war. So leave it as that, not stylish but functional.

[Rambo]

Flashy doesn't refer to bright neon colors, it refers to how aestetically modded it is. At least that's what flashy means in terms of mods to me.

[frost vectron]

So can someone explain to me why Angel is getting flack for doing a great mod?

Seriously guys... clear your head of expectations before you read a write-up--it makes you look like a moron when you post.

[AODL]

So can someone explain to me why Angel is getting flack for doing a great mod?

I'm with Frost on this one. Forsaken has done a fantastic job, and the results are superb. That should be good enough for everyone. But why does a Nerf Gun need to look good? I'll admit, I like, as Shorty put it, "Flashy" or otherwise awesome looking guns, but I would rather have something with the capabilities of Doomsayer than have something all spruced up and "shiny".

On a side note, Forsaken, do you have any idea if Step 4 works yet?

Edited by AODL, 03 November 2007 - 01:03 PM.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Insane as usual, Angel. I feel bad for those who aren't on your team at Hell.

To the various posters in this thread: If you feel that this doesn't live up to the Angel standard or top his previous work, then please do recreate this in its full glory. You should be grateful that there are contributors who take the time to do this and show you the steps involved, time out of their lives that could be spent otherwise. Who are you to complain? Praise, critique, comment, but don't bitch.

P.S.: I value aethetics, but functionality is far more important. Great work on the rear-loading turret, Angel. Is the piece through which those three loading ports were drilled a solid plastic slab, or is it hollow like usual? If it is the latter, did you bridge the gap with anything to prevent darts from being caught on the second half of the port?

[Uterly]

I think it is interesting to read These reviews and compare them to these results lol

Also, FA did you experience any of the mentioned problems with the stock gun

Edited by Uterly, 03 October 2007 - 12:24 AM.

[Skitzo]

Just awesome.
Now I have to buy one of these things. Damn you, making me spend money!
I was needing a new primary soon anyway.
I plan on using your writeup and maybe adding a few things.
Is that OMC's PETG? If not how does it compare in size?
Thanks allot for the writeup, I'll let you know how mine turns out.

Skitzo-

[Forsaken angel24]

Questions and Response time!


[quote name='Retiate' date='Oct 1 2007, 03:03 AM' post='124638']
So now how hard is it to cock?
How's the stock compared to the one on it's brother?
How about the plunger tube?
Was there anything you needed to reinforce?
That catch looks like it could snap off like the other one did.
And that foam rubber stuff, where did you find it? Do you know what it's called? All I could find at Home Depot and Ace was this hard, rubbery stuff. It didn't look like the ones I've seen in your pictures.
I think Doomsayer fits quite well.
[/quote]

1 It is easier to cock than my Pump Action Shotgun level 2. It is not that hard to cock for me considering I was able to pump out 12 shots in 12 seconds.
2 The stock is a bit larger and more comfortable to work with. It is now where near as comfortable as an Xbow. I would say if a Xbow stock was a 10 and a longshot stock was an 8, I would put this somewhere around 6.
3. The plunger tube is a bit smaller than the Pump action shotgun.
4. I did not reinforce a single thing. Another thing I like about the catch is that this catch is actually wider and made of a stronger plastic than the original pump action shotgun.
5. I have been able to find that exact kind of foam rubber at every hardware store I go to. Maybe you are not looking in the right place. Check the plumbing section.

[quote name='mini' date='Oct 1 2007, 03:18 AM' post='124639']
Anyway the only that worries me, well decides being on the receiving end, is having all those exposed barrel out there.
[/quote]
I treat my guns with respect. I can't see myself ever having to throw or drop this gun. So I am not concerned with the exposed barrels at all.

[quote name='lionhead333' date='Oct 1 2007, 06:56 AM' post='124644']
Absolutely incredible. Just wondering, how many feet of FBR did you use insulating? Seems like it adds up.
[/quote]

I used the leftover crushed foam that comes at the end of the spools. It is pretty useless. It would come in handy for people who use cpvc though.

[quote name='Cmdrmack' date='Oct 1 2007, 08:38 AM' post='124647']
How the hell do you plan on topping this?
[/quote]

It is already in effect.

[quote name='sam' date='Oct 1 2007, 05:45 PM' post='124678']
[quote name='Forsaken_angel24' post='124637' date='Sep 30 2007, 10:25 PM']
Comments, suggestions, praises, flames?
[/quote]
I've got a flame for you,
I'd light myself on fire to have that.
[/quote]

I laughed for a while after reading that.

[quote name='NerfFreak' date='Oct 1 2007, 06:01 PM' post='124679']
Trigger mech looks kind of complex, which usually means it's harder and weaker to use, as there's so many pieces. It's hard to see in the pic, so care to elaborate on how it works?
[/quote]

The half dome that rotates the mech moves back and forth along the beefy gear wheel. This rotates the turret.
Now what is interesting is that when the turret is stock. The barrels would actually move around the skull while the skull would stay put always being in a right side up position. This is what I originally wanted but learned it was impossible. So I ended up glueing the spring and now the center of the turret turns with the actual barrels.

[quote name='b00m13' date='Oct 1 2007, 06:53 PM' post='124686']
When you add the extra spring, how much harder is it now to cock the gun? Keep in mind, when I added a BBB spring into a LS, I had to use both bolts to cock it back... (I'm that weak).
[/quote]

I would not recommend using industrial springs if you are that weak.

[quote name='AODL' date='Oct 1 2007, 08:36 PM' post='124701']
I have a question, if you don't mind it. When you say "Industrial Spring", are there any possible details you can give us one that spring? ( i.e. Name of the Company, length, width, thickness of coils, coils per inch, ect.)
[/quote]

I don't do measurements. I eyeball and feel out the springs and make judgment calls based on those. I bought a box of excess springs from some warehouse for $50. I plan on going to get more soon.

[quote name='yourface' date='Oct 1 2007, 09:27 PM' post='124718']
FA_24, which barrel does the gun shoot out of? Is it easy to aim?
[/quote]
Doomsayer shoots out of it's top barrel. It is easy to aim but a tad more difficult to aim than the Pump action shotgun. In other words, It is the second easiest gun to aim I have ever modified.

[quote name='jwasko' date='Oct 1 2007, 11:44 PM' post='124744']
I would first like to say that you did a great job, Angel. I would also like to add that I almost certainly couldn't do this mod as well as you (or any of your mods, for that matter).

Also, I'd like to note that I just read the Eyes of Fire mod for the first time yesterday.

So, to get to the point...I'm not that impressed with the Doomsayer.

Now, would I be cowering in fear if I went up against it? Yes. Is it another great Angel production? Yes.

The rear-loading turret is amazingly practical, and the way that it was done here was elegant in its simplicity; perhaps equally importantly, it was successful. Still, it is something that has been tried and even accomplished before.

Cmdrmack asked: "How the hell do you plan on topping this?" Meanwhile, I'm still asking: "How the hell do you plan on topping the Eyes Of Fire?"

In sum: another great job, Angel. But, is it the best mod I've ever seen? No. In my opinion, Angel's LS and the Eyes of Fire were more impressive.

That's my honest opinion.
[/quote]

I hear you but the Eyes of Fire was way Over budgeted. I will be surprised if anyone here will actually use that write up to its full extent.
As far as I am concerned this is the best modification I have ever done. Besides I can see others actually following this mod and replicating it. As far as primaries go, I think it is safe to say that my longshot may be neglected for a while.

[quote name='Cmdrmack' date='Oct 2 2007, 01:21 AM' post='124756']
Doomsayer is an excellent step forward in modification.

If anything I would say that this is the paradigm of Nerf modification

1st: Does it perform its task better than when you pulled it out of the box
2nd: Does it look better than when you pulled it out of the box
3rd: Is it useful

The Eyes of Fire answers yes to the first two, the Doomsayer answers yes to all three.
[/quote]

Thanks mate. Eyes of fire is useful but nowhere near as useful as Doomsayer in a war type situation. Eyes of Fire was created for assassin type scenarios and to see how my skills at modding guns could increase.

[quote name='One Man Clan' date='Oct 2 2007, 08:44 AM' post='124765']
FA's mods serve different purposes, and serve them each well. Somewhere in there is that saying about bringing a knife to a gun fight,
[/quote]

I plan on doing more work so the next one is like bringing a gun to a knife fight.

[quote name='AODL' date='Oct 2 2007, 11:10 PM' post='124856']
On a side note, Angel, do you have any idea if Step 4 works yet?
[/quote]

It is a work in progress. I am very, very fucking busy with Organizing Hell, Moving,organizing a Huge Halloween party and dealing with the constantly changing job I have. Making more guns for others coming to Hell, making darts and finding a new red fbr supplier. I will post something when I can.

[quote name='SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA' date='Oct 2 2007, 11:49 PM' post='124860']
Is the piece through which those three loading ports were drilled a solid plastic slab, or is it hollow like usual? If it is the latter, did you bridge the gap with anything to prevent darts from being caught on the second half of the port?
[/quote]

I cannot for the life of me figure out what this means. A little more help?

[quote name='Uterly' post='124870' date='Oct 3 2007, 01:23 AM']
I think it is interesting to read These reviews and compare them to these results lol

Also, FA did you experience any of the mentioned problems with the stock gun
[/quote]

I laughed reading those reviews. I plan on leaving my own review. With a link to this page.

[quote name='Skitzo' date='Oct 3 2007, 08:12 AM' post='124886']
I plan on using your writeup and maybe adding a few things.
Is that OMC's PETG? If not how does it compare in size?
Thanks allot for the writeup, I'll let you know how mine turns out.
Skitzo-
[/quote]

I look forward to seeing your final product.

Thanks guys for all the compliments. They really are what keeps these write ups coming. Especially now that I am working full time with all these other things going on.

As far as "Flashy" is concerned. I am happy with this gun exactly the way it is. I thought the paint scheme was fine. All it needed was something on that peg in the middle. As far as paint is concerned I am done with Krylon paint. I will be following CS's advice on using Vinyl dye. I have noticed the paint is wearing off on some of my guns.

EDIT: Once again the quotes don't work when quoting alot of people.

Edited by Forsaken_angel24, 03 October 2007 - 08:42 PM.

[jwasko]

Eyes of Fire was created for assassin type scenarios and to see how my skills at modding guns could increase.

(Note: Emphasis mine)

That's what I was trying to get across. The Eyes of Fire required some more creative thinking and greater all around skills (although, this is only based on my viewing of the writeups, not from actually doing them). Don't get me wrong, they're both difficult mods; it's just that one seems much more difficult than the other.

I want to add that, in the past several days of considering the Doomslayer, my estimation of the overall "goodness" of the mod has only gone up. I haven't been able to think of a single thing to do differently (without affecting its practicality in a war, of course). And, if people can't think of anything to add to your mod, that's a sign of a mod that has been done pretty damn well.

So, to state it once more (as if it needed restating): Great job, Angel.

I wish you luck in kicking ass in Hell, although that thing looks like it makes its own luck.

[deaddumpster]

I wish you luck in kicking ass in Hell, although that thing looks like it makes its own luck.

I don't think he needs anything but this. Angel, we'll either A) Get our asses handed to us every round we're up against you. Be on the same team and kick royal ass. OR C) Gang up on you in the last round and finally bring you down to size.

PS. Just found that song and downloaded it, Darkest Hour- Doomsayer (The Beginning of the End). It sits along my assorted Rage Against the Machine and Tiny Tim songs.