100 replies to this topic

[GeneralPrimevil]

As in...pin head being the flat part, like the "head of a nail." Yeah...want a MS Paint image?

Bother Carbon, as in, he is driving the whole way (if he for sure can come) and has access to brass.
I might try and find an Ace hardware store first...

[Flaming Hilt]

Oh. I get it now. I had the nail backwards... "head" meaning "tip...."
We all have our stupid moments. Thanks for that.

No, don't worry about it. Putting three pieces of pipe into my suitcase does not bother me at all. Of course, it'd be a one-time thing, so it prolly wouldn't be a bad idea to find an ACE...

[Carbon]

Since you're talking about trigger design and flexibility...the benefits of ompa's (as I see it) is that it's far more flexible as far as trigger placement. Like GP was saying, a clothespin nas to be placed at the exact firing pin point, while ompa's can be placed forward of that. ompa's system allows for a better balanced gun, whereas everything is far forward of mine...SNAPs get pretty long, pretty quick, as the system is right now (the system is gonna change a bit on the 4).

I was wondering just what you were talking about with the suitcase. Well, unless something really odd happens, I'm a definite for this summer. I have at least three sources for brass that I can think off offhand, with the best prices being around $2.80 a stick for the common Nerf sizes. Keep me posted if you still need some.

[Flaming Hilt]

Carbon said

Like GP was saying, a clothespin nas to be placed at the exact firing pin point, while ompa's can be placed forward of that.

The black line is wire.

...
And that's how it's done.

(Suitcase, like -- long story short -- I have to fly to KAF)

[GeneralPrimevil]

That'd be a recockulously heavy pull, would it not? Actually, I like that idea. So is that the Flaming Hilt trigger or the ompa-Carbon trigger?

Really, that pull could be even lighter than ompa's ever really could be, and certainly lighter than Carbon's, so I'm gonna take that idea since I didn't see a patent number anywhere. Anyway, make the pull really light by using a really long trigger arm.

[Carbon]

Flaming Hilt, on Apr 1 2006, 07:28 PM, said:

And that's how it's done.

That, my dear sir, is beautiful. What's even better is that the bar you're using to route the string can serve the dual purpose of limiting the trigger pull, and making sure the nail doesn't pop out of the hole.

EDIT: Yeah, those lever actions would give a nice light pull. Which is saying something, because even direct activation of the pin really doesn't take much force...

Edited by Carbon, 01 April 2006 - 10:39 PM.

[Flaming Hilt]

GeneralPrimevil said

Anyway, make the pull really light by using a really long trigger arm.

OR just make a really long trigger end and a really short string end (Levers: 9th grade). But I think that's kind of what you meant. But anyways.

What really matters is where you put the nail for the string to go around. The clothespin wants to go almost straight down. Don't put your pivot too far back, but don't put it straight down, either.

That's the... that's Carbon's Extendable Trigger. If he doesn't mind me naming it.

EDIT:

Carbon said

That, my dear sir, is beautiful.

Much obliged. Your inspiration, remember.
But... all the same...

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 01 April 2006 - 10:43 PM.

[Carbon]

Heh...Carbon's Extendable Trigger. So shall it be written, so shall it be done.

This just means that I really gotta get going on the SNAP-4...I had planned to use remote activation of the pin, as well (different method, though). Dammit, you beat me to it.

[ompa]

Whoa. It's a weird combo trigger! Genius!

Yeah, the longer the lever arm the lighter the pull. However, if your ratios get off too much you're limited by the space available between the pvc pipes. Found that out the hard way on the NEAR and had to re-do the trigger lever.

~ompa

[Flaming Hilt]

SO!

More problems await:
If you all will take a look at this portion of the plans...

...you will notice the large amount of space between the 1" PVC (plunger casing) and the 1/2" PVC (bolt/barrel casing). How do I fix this?

I was thinking -- will 3/4" PVC be a perfect fit? The problem being, I would have to drive 20 miles to the nearest Home Depot (my ACE just goes down to 1") just to get a one inch length, and they make you buy all 10 feet anyways. I can't get a 1/2" endcap... because of the same reason.

I ended up using 3/4" CPVC for the Plunger, and with O-rings on an endcap, it's a perfect fit. A 3/4" CPVC endcap will also fit perfect on my 1/2" PVC -- so should I do that?

Those are my two "miraculous" ideas. I'm thinking the 3/4" CPVC endcap with O-rings, for now. Less gas.

Your thoughts?

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 02 April 2006 - 12:47 PM.

[Carbon]

Quote

...you will notice the large amount of space between the 1" PVC (plunger casing) and the 1/2" PVC (bolt/barrel casing). How do I fix this?

You want something called a reducing bushing. The diameter of these are typically the same OD as the pipe itself, so you need to use a 1" coupling to attach it. It's what I use at the end of the SNAPs, except those are 1.25" => .5".

Quote

I was thinking -- will 3/4" PVC be a perfect fit?

A .75" endcap is the same OD as 1" tubing (which both fit exactly inside 1.25" tubing).

Quote

I ended up using 3/4" CPVC for the Plunger, and with O-rings on an endcap, it's a perfect fit. A 3/4" CPVC endcap will also fit perfect on my 1/2" PVC -- so should I do that?

Wow...I haven't played around with CPVC at all, didn't know about that fit combination. Good find.

[GeneralPrimevil]

Wow, FH, you just solved a problem I was having. I'm gonna use 1/2" CPVC as a piston, with a 1/2" CPVC endcap as the piston head, using that 2.214mm nylon reinforced rubber sheet I have as the sealing face, sandwiched between two 7/8" O.D. fender washers. On the other side of the endcap there will be a 1/8" thick fender washer, with the center hole bored to the same diameter as the O.D. of the 1/2" CPVC. That will act as my spring stop. I may even add a bored-out, slightly ported 1/2" PVC spacer between the front and back of the piston head to give it more strength. Now I just have to figure out the lockup I was trying to build...and no one has a clue what I am talking about, except for those of you who should not reveal your identity(s)...

[Flaming Hilt]

Carbon said

A .75" endcap is the same OD as 1" tubing (which both fit exactly inside 1.25" tubing).

SO... is a .5" endcap the same as OD .75, which will both fit exactly inside 1" tubing?
(lifesaver question...)

GP... I got some of that... in my head... I'm a picture person... but there's too many sizes for me to picture at the same time...

[GeneralPrimevil]

Did I mention that spring stop would be 3/4" in diameter?

Wanna know what FH's face looks like now?

> <

Yeap...

I guess I'm gonna have to remove about 1/16" from the outside of the 1/2" CPVC endcap then...Great.

Either way, 1/2" PVC doesn't fit in 3/4" PVC, so...

[Flaming Hilt]

And... I don't want to know if 1/2" PVC fits in 3/4"... I want to know if a 1/2" endcap is the same size as 3/4," and whether or not either of those will fit perfect in 1."



EDIT: YES!!! YES YES YES YES YES!!! !!! !!!
TRIGGER SYSTEM NOW FULLY OPERATIONAL!!!
WoOT!!!

Anyways... pic of the final product:

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 02 April 2006 - 05:45 PM.

[GeneralPrimevil]

I thought you needed it to bridge the gap between the 1" PVC and the 1/2" PVC...

Numbers are my friends...ATTACK FH, numbers, ATTACK!



That's a good thing that the trigger works, right?

[Flaming Hilt]

Uhm. I need it to fill in the space between the 1" and the 1/2," not bridge the gap. What gap? Sheesh. Get with it.

Numbers, ranges, numbers? It's not done yet. I need to fill in the space, remember?

Yes. Generally when your trigger works, that's a good thing.

[GeneralPrimevil]

"Bridge the gap" meaning the same thing as "fill the void," "get rid of the empty space," etc.

Numbers as in, the numbers in one of my previous posts...

Well that's goood then that your trigger works after, how many tries? How many rebuilds?

[Flaming Hilt]

Oh. Right. Apologies. We all have our moments. I guess I'm having more than others lately.

Got it. Thanks.

Uhm... 12, I think. This is the 12th rebuild. Now I just have to finish carving the space for the second O-ring, and then I can move on to the barrel... : oD

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 02 April 2006 - 06:52 PM.

[GeneralPrimevil]

Well, better late than never, right?

I see my next homemade taking a lot more tries than 12 now...

[Flaming Hilt]

Well, no, because A) You're twelve times smarter than I am, and You know which ones work and which ones don't.

And just in case you don't know which ones work and which ones don't, then:
- Use strong string. No bendy electrical wire, string-string... use fishing line. It's strong.
- Use metals. I know I said that dowels were nice and custom-fitted triggers and all, but... that was my second remake. Use metals.
- Make the string tighter than it needs to be. It doesn't matter if the pin goes too far down, but it does matter if it doesn't go far enough.

Those are my tips for now. I'm sure I'll think of some later.

- UPDATE - UPDATE - UPDATE - UPDATE - UPDATE -

Stock finished.

It's too late to go to the hardware store and pick up a 1/2" endcap now, but I will do it tomorrow. Otherwise, I'm getting everything else cut and fitted today so as long as I have time to attach the endcap, it should be done tomorrow!

-- Also, I think I'm going to put a thirded piece of 1" over the ugly part of the stock... so it's not so... ugly...

[Carbon]

Flaming Hilt, on Apr 2 2006, 05:15 PM, said:

- Make the string tighter than it needs to be. It doesn't matter if the pin goes too far down, but it does matter if it doesn't go far enough.

Well, it does if it goes far enough and the pin pops out of the hole...after it's encased in your lower receiver. I only comment on that because whenever mine pop out, I have to manually guide the pin back in - it's never a straight shot.

Good work on getting the system going, too.

[Flaming Hilt]

Quick update: Now I know for sure that I have all the pieces! I made most of everything yesterday, so all I have to do is cut a hole through this flippin' endcap, make a space for the mag... and viola!

[boltsniper]

Looks good. Is that section of copper pipe the trigger? Perhaps you answered that already. Any pictures of the front half of the gun? Your trigger system is pretty nice looking. I think it ought to work well. Starting over and changing things is just part of design. That's how you learn and it obviously worked out for you in the long run.

Very nice though. Can`t wait to see the finished product. What are you using for a magazine?

[Flaming Hilt]

Yes, the copper pipe sticking out is the trigger. I can't really take pictures of the front of the gun yet, because until I get this endcap sawed I can't attach the bolt to the stock.

I'm using balsa wood for a magazine.

Thanks very much for your attention, though!

PS: Here's about what it should look like when it's done.