100 replies to this topic

[boltsniper]

Very nice looking. Are you going to add a pistol grip or go crescent grip shotgun style?

[Flaming Hilt]

I think I'm just going to leave it how it is. I may add a front grip... because I don't want anybody's left hand prying the barrel out... but other than that, I kind of like it.

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 03 April 2006 - 09:41 PM.

[Flaming Hilt]

Yes, I am double posting.

Well, seeing as it has been quite a while since the last update, I figure I might as well.

There are the plans, for reference.

Alright. Problems I encountered that are currently being fixed (as in, the glue is drying) or have already fixed:
- Needed a more airtight seal between the Plunger Casing/Stock and the Barrel. O-ring'd.
- Needed a better Lubricant. Vaseline'd.
- Had trouble attaching washer to brass bolt and operating rod to brass bolt (my dad has all the good machinery, and he lives in MI). Industrial-strength glue'd (E6000), glue is drying.

Problems:
- Barrel sags. It's like my At2k'd NF, but unintentional. I think that the easiest way to fix this would be to have the Barrel go into the Plunger Casing/Stock more than 1" for next time.

So, If anybody else has any ideas that constitute adding something (so I don't have to change the mechanics of the gun) to keep the barrel level, please say so.

Otherwise, that's it. Pics once the glue dries and I have time to put it together (tomorrow after school, if I don't get too much homework).

[Carbon]

- Had trouble attaching washer to brass bolt and operating rod to brass bolt (my dad has all the good machinery, and he lives in MI). Industrial-strength glue'd (E6000), glue is drying.

Take a look at the SNAP-1s plunger...I used an expansion nut in the tube to hold on the washer/gasket.

[Flaming Hilt]

Interesting idea. It works for you, I guess, but I wanted the washer attached to the bolt.

PS: As a side note for ya'll...
The instructions on the E6000 read: "Apply constant pressure."

...

So I did.

Still looking for a way to upright the barrel.
Would expanding foam work? Any other -better- ideas?

[ompa]

What I've done with my barrels is attach them to a 1/2 coupler, wrap the coupler in tape, then screw it into the body. It ends up doubling as a plunger stop/barrel holder all in one. also allows me to rip off the barrel to disassemble the gun if needed.

~ompa

[Flaming Hilt]

Wait... so wrap tape around the coupler... hmmm... I may have to try that. A very good idea. Thanks, Ompa.

EDIT: So, the gun has an official range of 5'. Which is better than before the extra O-rings. And pretty good for my first homemade. If anybody feels like buying the stock... well, I dunno. No. I'll keep it and go at it again in the next few months.

Well, here's what I learned:
-Use shells. This helps darts compression with the magazine, and it allows you to attach an operating rod to stay on longer than 4 pumps.
-Make sure everything is enclosed. Any ammo systems (bolt) should be separate from the barrel. In this gun, the bolt was the barrel, and that was bad.
-Make sure you know what the heck you're doing with O-ring sizes before you start building. Only certain sizes are offered and getting the wrong size is a bad idea.
-How to build a trigger.
-How to get metals to stick together without power tools.

And, I'm boring you now... so... moving on...

In the mean time, I think I'm just going to re-name the thread "FH's Guns" and keep all my guns in here. Less threads used, and all the ideas will be in one place. Anyways, I'm drawing up plans for my next gun -- a pistol of sorts -- in my spare time (if I had remembered to bring graph paper to school today, it'd be done). I'll post the plans once they're finished.

The first thing I want is a better O-ring seal for my plunger. It will be in 1" PVC. Any ideas for sizing?

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 10 April 2006 - 04:38 PM.

[ompa]

Mhm. Go thinwalled 1" PVC, followed by I believe #18 (I'm pretty sure they're 18) O-rings. Me & Bolt use those sizes for our guns.

~ompa

[Flaming Hilt]

Okay. Thanks, Ompa. You can see the carefully labeled number #18 O-ring in THESE PLANS:

Everything is as close to scale as I could get it, except for the clothespin.

It's a new trigger design based off of the clothespin trigger.
It's also a lot like the SNAP-1S, but it does have quite a few differences:
- Plunger material/style (of course, -Carbon:The internals. The old plunger shaft was a wood dowel, with the plunger head screwed into one end, knob in the other- THAT sounds pretty familiar)
- Trigger style
- Barrel size
- Designer
- And the minor details.

You can pretty much get everything you need to know from the picture. The thing I'm having trouble with is barrel length. If barrel volume is supposed to equal active plunger volume, my barrel has to be almost a foot long. Either I did something wrong, or... yea... so... suggestions?

I won't be able to fully commit myself to it for quite a while: next two weekends are full. I'm sure that I may be able to get pretty far with my after school time, though.

Updates as they're needed.

Suggestions/comments/immense praise/etc. always appreciated.

[Carbon]

Nice simple mechanics on your trigger...I think I may have to borrow that for the SNAP-1s, as its trigger is currently atrocious. Good job, you're cracking out some pretty nice trigger designs.

As far as your barrel length; I think the rule-of-thumb equation is that your barrel should be roughly a fourth of your PC volume...so you should be okay.

[Flaming Hilt]

One-fourth... okay...
*wipes forehead.*
So that's about three inches. I can work with that.

That also means I should shorten the FAR's barrel... hmmm...

Thanks Carbon!

[Flaming Hilt]

Done. And due to the work put into getting the thing to catch right (using just plain washers was an interesting experience), I have decided to name it "Catch."



Surprisingly, I only made two changes to the design and they really aren't all that significant:
- Added two washers "underneath" the O-ring to prevent crushing, and fiddled with different size washers for O-ring support. Catch washer stayed the same.
- Changed the trigger material to 1/2" brass. It was handy, it fit, and it worked better than balsa.

Really, there's only one problem with it:
Manual trigger return -- because to fire the gun, you have to move the brass almost straight up and down, at which point the clothespin's spring can't push it back anymore. To tell you the truth, I don't really care.

VERY Accurate

Range:
32'
35'
29'
36'
Average: 33'

This may seem short to some of you, but I know for a fact that with a spring replacement, those numbers should at least double. How do I know? Well, I tested a stronger spring... and...
The reason I just didn't keep it in is because I couldn't get the trigger to go. I had to pull the spring back less far, thus moving the clothespin forward, thus decreasing the leverage... thus... not being triggerable.

Any q's, yata, I'd be happy to answer. A stronger spring for this one and it's done. My next project: Modding pump-action to my Custom FAR (AKA, Rescuing it, because 2' just doesn't cut it for me). I won't post the mod plans here because nobody would get them. Anyways, I'll update as neccesary.

[Carbon]

You used a straight washer for your catch surface? How did you get that to work?

[Flaming Hilt]

You're going to love this. Remember how on the FAR, it wouldn't fire because the clothespin pushed the firing pin BACK, requiring the trigger force to have to counter the spring before firing?

Yea. I got to use that to my advantage.

When I pull back on the plunger, the washer hits the firing pin and pushes it back, allowing itself over. However, the pin will only go back: Once the catch face is past the pin, the clothespin pushes the pin back up and -- voila! Trigger catch. I can draw a quick sketch if you want.

[Flaming Hilt]

Alright. Yea, this topic is... only 1 month old now. But I'm going to stick with it, unless somebody has anything to say.

So, as promised, here is my Custom FAR 2.


Just kidding. That's the technology demonstrator, which I have been dying to build for quite some time. I've fiddled with ideas for shells and operation, but making the demonstrator allows me to see that it works and make changes before going into the final project. Which is a nice thing to be allowed to do.

Anyways, here's how it works:
- Mag will go in the rearmost slot.
- Shell pushed into bolt.

[that's a spring]
- Bolt forward, momentum keeps shell from falling out of frontmost slot.
- Gun fired (I just have to blow for now... range isn't bad, and I'm sure having more of a barrel than just a shell and going over everything with goop will up things a little)
- Bolt retracted. Spring (the round dot at the top of the picture below) pushes shell away from barrel, and the bolt spring makes the shell catch on the rim of the frontmost slot. Shell falls out, and that's it.


Problems -- nothing I'm too worried about, for my first shell'd gun I don't really care if it has issues... as long as it works.
- Has to be held upright as shell ejection relies partially on gravity.
- Bolt has to be pushed forward a decent speed to ensure the shell doesn't fall out the non-mag hole.
- Shells are ugly.

Okay, not ugly, but the size proportioning between the part that holds the dart and the catch face is a little weird.

- - -

EDIT (the next day...)


I'm prolly making a magazine and more shells as you read this (time-sensitive).

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 28 May 2006 - 12:52 PM.

[Flaming Hilt]

I've decided to revive this topic, because it was a good topic.

While obviously there won't be as much input from people like Ompa, GeneralPrimevil, and Bolt, a lot of good discussion went on and a lot of good ideas got thrown around inside this thread. I'd like that to resume.

That being said, I know I can't just get away with asking for good discussion. I have to get it going again.


Those are plans for a Full Semi-Auto Prototype I drew up a while ago. I know full-semi auto is kind of the dream of Nerf guns; well, let's see if we can't get at least a little closer.

The way it works is when you pull the trigger back, two things happen:
1) The trigger is connected to the breach, which opens, allowing in a dart, and then that stick piece slipws off and closes the breach before the end of step two, sealing the barrel and allowing the dart to fire.
2) The trigger is also connected to the plunger, so when you pull the trigger back, it cocks the gun, and after the breach closes, the cocking tube slips off of the plunger and the gun fires.

I never went ahead with it because I felt it was a little too complicated for me. I'm sure someone with a little more patience and some more machinery on their hands could make it happen -- assuming, that is, you all think it's feasible. Or I might try it, with enough encouragement anyways, and once I finish a few more sane ideas. : o)


Those are plans for the reloading system on a shotgun. The shotgun thread has been up and running for at least a year now, but nothing has really come out of it. Shotguns are, again, rather complicated. I'm more likely to get around to building one than I am that semi-auto, but I have some other ideas I want to finish first.


My custom FAR 2. In this very thread are the crap pieces of number one. The problem wasn't the mechanics, it was that I was a noob, and put in weak springs, and gave up when they didn't work.

This really isn't anything we haven't seen before, except the cocking mech. I like to have pipes go through the middle of things; most homemades have pipes that encompass all 360 degrees of the gun. The cocking handle is connected to two aluminum rods, each high on either side, which run back to the sleigh. The sleigh cocks the gun and covers the breach, that's nothing new.

I'm going to test clips before building this; I'm a little iffy on the whole clip thing, having seen many MANY more homemade successes without them than with them.


And YES. A gun I'm actually BUILDING. While I want this to be mostly a discussion thread, I bet you're all more content when something gets done.

I just started this morning. Working slowly, here's what I've got done:

The pump shaft, trigger, and I bought a one-way valve from McMaster.

This was to be the first 100% homemade (using only small parts from a hardware store) pressure-powered gun (ie the pump and trigger are homemade), but after numerous failed attempts at a one-way valve I finally caved in.

I have also started collecting parts for a "Dew Cannon," as an ode to Mountain Dew; I know we all owe at least a gun or a mod or two to Mountain Dew, so I'm making a pressure gun with a Dew bottle as the tank. I will probably also paint it similarly to a Dew can or use Dew cans as decoration.

Discuss!
: oD

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 04 February 2008 - 06:24 PM.

[jwasko]

Hmm...your diagrams too small for me to see clearly (especially your writing) Any chance of putting up larger pictures, or links to such pictures?

The semi-auto is going to be a springer, right? In that case, you're going to either have a really long and hard trigger pull, or horrible range (or both). However, I could (without doing any math, here) see gears/pulleys being used to increase the distance the plunger is pulled back per distance of trigger pull.

And, as for the hand cannon...from what I can see on you're site, that's going to function similarly to an airtech/titan/4b valve, right? How are you planning on sealing the area around the pull-pin?

More questions than suggestions there, perhaps, but it's a start I suppose.

[Flaming Hilt]

Okay, I fixed the pictures. There's now a thumbnail which links to the full size (I'm not sure how well having the full size directly in the thread would go over). The reason I didn't do it in the first place was because I figured most of the relevant writing was just big enough (the small stuff is pipe sizes and whatnot).

Yes, I realized that; it's kind of hard to see, but there is a lever system on the back of the trigger which gives the trigger:plunger pull a 2:1 ratio. You're right, the weight on the trigger is going to be a problem, but it's the only way I saw to make a full semi-auto gun. I don't think it'll be too bad; ie the pull on an NF or CF isn't too bad and they still get 40 feet without trigger replacement.

Yes, as a matter of fact I was in the market for a 2k when I found the parts to do it all homemade. I will have a tank expansion on the side though, so it will be able to hold more pressure and therefore shoot farther than any 2k. As for sealing the pull-pin area; you must not have seen it in the link, there's an o-ring super glued to the inside which has an ID which is a little smaller than the OD of the nail. I'm 95% sure it'll work.

Aye, and questions are as good a start as suggestions. : o)

[Carbon]

Yes, I realized that; it's kind of hard to see, but there is a lever system on the back of the trigger which gives the trigger:plunger pull a 2:1 ratio. You're right, the weight on the trigger is going to be a problem, but it's the only way I saw to make a full semi-auto gun. I don't think it'll be too bad; ie the pull on an NF or CF isn't too bad and they still get 40 feet without trigger replacement.

I had the same initial reaction as wasko, that the trigger would be either beastly to pull, or get range not worth mentioning. But I got to thinking that the nature of a semi-auto is to fill the air with foam, so accuracy isn't as great of a concern...how about using a larger lever, like say the system a staple gun uses...better mechanical advantage, leading to a large spring release. Plus, you get ot use your whole hand to file, as opposed to just a couple of fingers.

[Ronster]

That carrier dog set-up is ingenious!
Can't see why I didn't think of that before...

[Carbon]

That carrier dog set-up is ingenious!
Can't see why I didn't think of that before...

'Tis definitely cool, but I gotta ask...how is the shell extracted and ejected?

[Flaming Hilt]

Hmmm... an interesting idea using your whole hand and having a trigger lever, Carbon; it would be easier to fire but you would have a lot less accuracy -- so much so that even if the air was filled with foam, I'm not sure any would come close. Still not a bad idea though; I'll have to see if I can't relate a staple gun and a Nerf gun either today after work or sometime tomorrow.

I didn't include a shell extractor or ejector, but one could easily fit in. Just add a lip to the top of the bolt and a spring to the bottom, voila.

EDIT:
Okay, so, whoever posted this:


Had quite the idea for leverage. I think this could work. Using the handle setup on an Sm3k, and having a foregrip to increase stability and therefore accuracy, I think this could work. I'm at school right now so I can't do much about it but before I double post I'll get some plans drawn up.

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 07 February 2008 - 12:58 PM.

[Flaming Hilt]

Okay. Semi-auto has me captivated. Only, I need help.

This is just a PROOF OF CONCEPT. And yes, the cocking mechanism has changed to the one used in the plans above.
Here's what I'm working with:


It already auto-advances, so I don't have to worry about the reloading, just the cocking. And yes, sucky range, but remember: JUST A PROOF OF CONCEPT. For now, anyways. ; o)

Here's what I'm thinking. The aluminum bar will hinge on the screw port that goes through the trigger. This is at rest:


This is cocked:


You can see it's kind of perfect.
What I need help with is the release mechanism.

One of the ideas behind this is that she auto-releases at full draw. How do I do that? Any ideas? I was thinking of having it just slip off the back of a catch, but that will be hard since at full draw the cocking rod is straight up. I suppose I could move it, but even if I did, I'm not sure how reliable it would be.

After we get her to release, we have to get her to catch again when the trigger is brought forward.

I'm shot... but this is constantly on my mind, so I will probably think of something eventually. I'll post updates as they come, but if anybody has any ideas, they would be greatly appreciated.

[jwasko]

Look to the pros:

Blasters like the Chainblazer (and the Cyberstrike version whose name I can't remember) and Rattler have mechanisms in which the plunger is brought back until something releases a catch that connects the lever/slide to the plunger.

I know it's not a very good explanantion, but if you look at the internals of one or more such blasters you should be able to understand what I'm talking about.

[southpaw]

Basically, the trigger spring would have to be way stronger than the plunger spring. Plus the leverage ratio for bar would make things even more difficult.

I dont think you can really make a semi-auto with a springer.