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Front Page Update: July


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#1 Langley

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

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Upcoming Nerf Wars:
[UT] July 19th S.L.A.N.G. Salt Lake Area Nerf Geeks
[MN] July 19th Urban Nerf Assault Indoor War
[IL] July 20th Cataclysm 4
[TX] July 20th HAMNO 2.7.2
[OH] July 20th Bowling Green War
[GA] July 20th NoMNE 3.0
[CA] July 21st Camarillo Humans vs. Zombies
[WI] July 27th NUCLEAR WAR
[NJ] July 27th Apoc PreWar
[WI] June 28th M.A.N.O. Summer Series 5/7
[NJ] August 3rd Apocalypse 2012
[WA] August 4th WANO I
[MN] August 10th Augsational 2013
[CA] June 21st 2014 Armageddon
To get your war posted on the main page, submit your planning thread to the 2016 Nerf War Schedule.

Contests
The 2013 New Releases Mod Contest results are in! Congratulations to the winners. Stay tuned for the next NH contest, which will be a competition to write the best homemade writeup for new nerfers.
1st Place: A side of nerf's Roughcut Mod ('4x4' integration)
2nd Place: snakerbot's Diatron Mod (lock removal, spring retensioning, ergonomic improvemens)
3rd Place: Jeo's Elite Alpha Trooper Mod (spring and 'supporting mods')

Featured Sales Threads
MHA Dartsmithing Kits - Red foam and other dart materials sold by Kane.
If you would like your trading thread featured on the main page, see the Featured Sales Threads FAQ and PM Ice Nine or myself.


Click here to read more, including:Last Month on NerfHaven, Nerf Facts, and a Discussion Topic...
Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Twitter to keep up with front page updates and announcements.
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2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.


#2 Langley

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 10:38 PM

Last Month on NerfHaven...
Here's what you missed on NerfHaven.

Nerf Facts
The average dart length decreased from about 2.1 inches in 2004 to 1.7 in 2008. -btrettel aka Doom
The porcupine has the ability to swim as its quills are hollow and buoyant - TED
The greatest number of posts on any single day was 439 on 2009-04-26.

Discussion Topic
Will the increased availability of 3D printing and modeling tools kickstart another homemades revolution in the NIC? - Submitted by Ice Nine
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2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.


#3 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 09:49 AM

Will the increased availability of 3D printing and modeling tools kickstart another homemades revolution in the NIC? - Submitted by Ice Nine

3D printing has been experiencing a pretty slow launch in the NIC, contrary to a lot of people's expectations. I can think of a few reasons why it's not the revolution that some expected.

First, almost all of the custom parts we use in the NIC can be cut out of planar pieces of plastic, or are rotationally symmetric. With regards to those kinds parts, 3D printers can't actually produce anything that we couldn't do with a scroll saw or wood lathe.

Second, 3D printers are still expensive. The average NIC builder is still a teenager with little disposable income, who can't justify spending more than a thousand dollars on a finicky little machine which is still of fairly limited use. With so few builders using them, you can't expect a revolution. We are seeing this technology used by mod vendors. Just not the average modder.
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#4 Langley

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:03 AM

3D printing has been experiencing a pretty slow launch in the NIC, contrary to a lot of people's expectations. I can think of a few reasons why it's not the revolution that some expected.


I think that home 3D printing technology is finally catching up, and people's expectations are beginning to meet the tech in the middle. The material costs are low, and as long as there are people in the community with access to a printer I think it's possible that we'll see some cheap printed parts show up in the trading forum. That having been said, I don't think there will be a huge change in homemade designs as a result. Most 3D printed parts will be replacements for existing parts. Homemades will still be made mostly of pipe, fittings, plastic sheet, and other raw materials. I doubt we'll see anything like a Nerf brand toy with a structural shell, just because the cost of printing such a large part outweighs the value of having it. I agree that 3D printers are best suited to the sort of drop-in modifications we see from Orange Mod Works, and that is where I think we'll see the most activity.
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#5 Kronos Nerf Mods

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:13 AM

Discussion Topic
Will the increased availability of 3D printing and modeling tools kickstart another homemades revolution in the NIC? - Submitted by Ice Nine


With the technology as it is now, 3D printing will get beaten by a lathe or a cnc in making homemade internals almost any day, and the issue with 3D printing is that the end result of a print is usually not strong enough (although I still haven't tried my polycarbonate filament). However, 3D printers still are a very powerful tool for prototyping a design.
By now I have printed about 30-40 prototype wyes, each with a small change to the design. If I would have had to make each one from a cnc or something, I would probably have gone insane.

The cost of printers is really the biggest thing holding back such a homemades revolution. Although some printers (albeit not great quality ones) are down in the $300-$400 range, which is much better than the $800-$1000+ that was necessary before. $300 is still a bit far off for most teenagers modifying nerf blasters in their basements, but the technology is definitely much more accessible now as schools are using printers as a way to teach kids.

I think a potential "revolution" is a bit far off, and would could really only happen when 3D printers are as common as inkjets, and maybe if pvc was somehow phased out. But as Langley said, I think there will be a huge uptick in those making replacement parts for stock blasters.

Edited by Kronos Nerf Mods, 17 July 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#6 Ice Nine

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 12:15 PM

Most 3D printed parts will be replacements for existing parts. Homemades will still be made mostly of pipe, fittings, plastic sheet, and other raw materials. I doubt we'll see anything like a Nerf brand toy with a structural shell, just because the cost of printing such a large part outweighs the value of having it.


I still think that this is a good start to more development. The stuff that Ryan and Kane have made with a 3D printer (primarily blaster handles, and now catch systems as well) will begin to replace some of the more troublesome parts of homemade blasters. The LpLCS design was pretty cool, for instance, but the handle just made it an ergonomic disaster. With a filled, printed design with an embedded catch system, a small pistol like that would be significantly easier to construct (I speculate).

With the technology as it is now, 3D printing will get beaten by a lathe or a cnc in making homemade internals almost any day, and the issue with 3D printing is that the end result of a print is usually not strong enough (although I still haven't tried my polycarbonate filament). However, 3D printers still are a very powerful tool for prototyping a design.

I think a potential "revolution" is a bit far off, and would could really only happen when 3D printers are as common as inkjets, and maybe if pvc was somehow phased out. But as Langley said, I think there will be a huge uptick in those making replacement parts for stock blasters.


"Revolution" is a pretty strong word, and now I regret using it in my original suggestion. The scope is another issue as well; I certainly don't think the 3D printer is close to the market penetration necessary to make it a viable option for most people in the NIC. However, in the future, I imagine that given the early developments (e.g. your printed wye, Kane's printed handle/catch) will give rise to greater innovation and ease of production. The strength of the printed product is not great, you are correct, but I still think that many of the best uses for printed parts are to replace things that are common in homemade blasters that will reduce build times, costs, and facilitate greater creativity and personalization.
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#7 Ozymandias

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

The greatest number of posts on any single day was 439 on 2009-04-26.

Out of curiousity, can anybody think of what caused that? The raider and yellow-repaint of the longshot came out around that time, but besides that I can't think of anything.

Will the increased availability of 3D printing and modeling tools kickstart another homemades revolution in the NIC? - Submitted by Ice Nine

The main way I see this happening is as a prototyping 'lead-by-example', in other words Ryan & Kane make cool stuff then people figure out how to replicate it without the 3D printer. Example of what I'm getting at: the +bow beget the snapbow.
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#8 KaneTheMediocre

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:46 PM

The main way I see this happening is as a prototyping 'lead-by-example', in other words Ryan & Kane make cool stuff then people figure out how to replicate it without the 3D printer.


There's a lot to this. More than 50% of the parts I print are 2d shapes that I COULD do on a scroll saw if I had material of the correct thickness as well as patience and skill (On occasion I'll use ryan instead). The ability to make small refinements to a design until I get it right--then repeatably make more--is as much of the appeal as the variety of parts that are possible.

That having been said, I don't think there will be a huge change in homemade designs as a result. Most 3D printed parts will be replacements for existing parts. Homemades will still be made mostly of pipe, fittings, plastic sheet, and other raw materials. I doubt we'll see anything like a Nerf brand toy with a structural shell, just because the cost of printing such a large part outweighs the value of having it. I agree that 3D printers are best suited to the sort of drop-in modifications we see from Orange Mod Works, and that is where I think we'll see the most activity.


I agree with your conclusions but not your reasons. Although large structural shells are more expensive in terms of material and print time, it's not quite prohibitively so (I'd estimate $15-20 worth of filament and 20 hrs for a tornadobow shell). However, since ABS (and most printable plastics) shrink as they cool, they tend to warp as they cool unevenly. This affects larger parts much more so than smaller parts, which can cause catastrophic problems with the print (Not just an inaccurate final part). Although there is no exact dimensional limit because there are many contributing factors in the geometry of the part, it's barely possible to produce a successful print at near the full 200mm x 200mm size of my printer. This is, in part, why the popular and cheap filament based printers like mine rarely have a build plate larger than 200x200, and it's also why we don't see people with 3d printers producing shells and other large parts.
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#9 Langley

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:08 PM

Well cost here can be interpreted as the cost of having the part printed on a printer that can handle it, like the laser sintering type printers that they have at shapeways.
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