If they actually made this a bullpup, it would be pretty good for modding to give more room for barrel length. (though that's only really useful if it's air powered) Otherwise this looks like it's getting pretty overhyped. It's probably just a reshelled Recon with a rotating mechanism that contains the magazine.

It's safe to say that N-strike has been catering very much to the MW2 crowd lately, though mostly to kids who don't give a damn about performance or whether that "UB3R L33T ACOG SC0P3" actually zooms. Still, I'll give credit where it's due and the Deploy definately has gone for a style that they haven't done before.

^ IIRC, the Koosh darts weren't labeled in any particular way, similar to how ACC's are not labeled right now.

Some info that Van forgot:
- Reliability/functionality in various mechanisms (magfed springers, hoppers, etc.)

- Flight performance at medium or high velocities

- Dart fit
 

I'll add this info in by dart type:
USC: 
- Works reliably in all stock mags. May require extending the pusher in flywheels. Hopper reliability is somewhat poor (even when trimmed) and requires high powered air blasters to feed. This problem is exacerbated in the cold.

- Thicker dart fit, somewhat under .527 (although works in that barrel as a loose push fit) and works perfect with many stock blasters. (Slightly larger than Elite foam.) Dart head will not work in smaller CPVC barrels.

- Great weight distribution, flies well in low/no wind at 4B velocities. Not as aerodynamic.
 

Koosh: 
- Works most reliably in flywheels. Reliability in magfed springers varies mainly due to dart fit and excess glue. Removing the AR will significantly reduce the likelihood of misfires. Full-length not tested in hoppers, but half length hoppers okay. (Tested with air blasters such as XBZ and 2nd gen 4B.) However, the brushy dimples sometimes get displaced in long barrels, so it's not recommended.
- Thinner dart fit. Foam diameter barely smaller than stock Elites, but the dart head will not work in long barrels smaller than .500.

- Great weight distribution, aerodynamics are better than other darts.
 

FVJ: 
- Reliability varies. Many FVJ's are too short to be seriously reliable in most blasters, and they tend to act up with magfed springers even without the air restrictor in place. For flywheels, the tips can get burned out easily. For hoppers, they require a lot of power to feed (2nd gen 4B), but do so slightly better than USC's.
- Medium dart fit (exception: White FVJ foam is thicker, close to USC thickness.) that works in most CPVC. Fresh FVJ's are very close to stock Elite fit.

- Okay weight distribution, not sure on aerodynamics. While they're certainly not Elites or Voberries, they tumble in mid-flight more than the other darts.
 

ACC: 
- Good reliability. The squishy dart head might present issues in magfed springers, but I haven't encountered this yet and they currently feed very reliably from initial tests. Sometimes the glue has issues which others have reported. Hoppers well from a few tests, and seems to do better than other darts for feeding through hoppers, but MHA silicone darts still do better. (Again, air blaster is likely required.)
- Thinner dart fit, but still works well in stock blaster barrels.
- Great weight distribution and aerodynamics. Appears to be better than VTN's but more testing is needed to confirm.

Voberry:
- Super-reliable in magfed springers, and feed well in flywheels too. Not suitable for hoppers, which require too much power to be able to use these darts.
- Very close dart fit to stock, but seems to be very slightly thicker (or just ages better).

- Extremely poor weight distribution characteristics, with similar inaccuracy to Elites. Not recommended above 100 FPS.
 

VTN: 
- Very reliable in magfed springers. Unreliable in hoppers (tested at half length), about as poor as USC's at feeding.
- Medium-thick dart fit; should be same as FVJ but the ones I have seem slightly thicker.
- Great weight distribution and aerodynamics, but very easily thrown off into a circle trajectory by wind.

That's all I have for now. I haven't battle tested many of these under many conditions; the results are mostly from observed testing under controlled situations.

A long time ago, my brother had 2 of them, the SawTooth and SneakShot, neither of which I've seen fire (this is back way before my dad found a mega dart sitting in the basement), nor have I seen the mega darts they go with. (the sawtooth only had one clip too) I never paid much attention, then later on, I decided I wanted to find something to do other than soakers (especially during the winter) and then I picked up a pair of Mavericks. (so those would be my first guns)

I'd personally keep one w/o the bright painting, but with a tan or brown on the handle. (though obviously that would be a bad idea for outdoor wars) Perhaps a gold paintjob (whilst painting the trigger and muzzle blaze orange) would keep it looking decent but not as alarming.

The spring catch looks somewhat weak, though may not be nearly as bad as the RFR's. It's still a consideration though and even with the stock spring it may be likely to wear out.

Does the "bottom" end of the barrel go all the way into the end of the plunger? If so, the inverted plunger may not be such a bad thing since there is no dead space. (sorry if that was obvious, but I haven't seen any inverted plungers without dead space yet)

Suburban Detroit Nerf Club
Facebook: https://www.facebook...36163833098419/

Discord: https://discord.gg/ZKFgxwU

MI

Detroit and everything within 50 miles

Superstock and NIC, non-metal darts. (Please use SCS - http://nerfhaven.com...ction-cup-slug/, Workers, etc.)

 

See Facebook page for game rules.

See Discord server for active discussions and the full, up-to-date war directory.

Are solid-headed China darts (FVJ's) allowed? Technically, they're stock darts and are lighter than slugs, but I figured I'd check first.

I'll be trying to make it and am looking for guests. I have a chance of making it for airsoft too, but don't have terribly advanced gear.

Are Sceptors allowed? (Provided they meet the chrono and dart restrictions, obviously.)

IMO, neither colors look very good. They're just too bright and, well, for the lack of a better term, "colorish". (the blue they used to have on the Mav/LS didn't look that great either, though that may be due to the lack of good complimentary colors) I'd say they should switch over to less bright/toyish colors (not necessarily black or camo, just something more subtle) but of course you could always just paint them anyways...

As one who has gotten it myself (wanted to return it but the box got disassembled), I can easily recommend that you save your money for better guns. As said, the Tommy 20 jams very frequently, the darts are losely held in the "barrels" (meaning darts will fall out often if you're not handling it carefully), and the motors are very loud. It is more of a cheap rifle than a machine gun and performs more like a pistol.

With $20, you could (almost) get an AT3k twin pack, which I heard are much better. (though they only hold 6 darts each) However, I havent tried any AT's before though I'm trying to get some.

I may be able to make the rescheduled date; put me down as maybe. Is there/will there be a FB event on it?

Marksmanship with real weaponry is much different than with Nerf and shooting around a toy gun is probably not going to help. (Air guns, BB guns, etc. would at least be better; long distance aiming is about being steady and lining up sights, and less on intuition which Nerf is based on.)

The whole thing looks awkward to handle and fire. The RF20 pumps appear to get in the way of one's pumping hand, and once a gun is used, it becomes dead weight until it's reloaded. Interesting assembly nonetheless, but how well does it work on the field?

Well, I also saw this when getting back from picking up a Longshot and 2 AK2k's. However, I didn't even look at the price but it should be around what was said ($8). Unfortunately, no Recon's (must've been sold out); I was hoping to get one.

The real M203 relies on the rifle's magazine for gripping; just FYI if you were going for that. The CS-6 magazines are quite wide though, and don't provide as good of a grip. For that reason, I would've kept the handle on the Mav, which would result in a launcher more like the 25. The GP25 which muzzle loaded (while the M203 is breach loaded, the reason being for easier shell release) and usually attached to AK's. Just some thoughts and while I sound like an anal purist here, it's still a good idea to go for in the name of ergonomics and hell, for inspiration.

Perhaps you could create a kind of shotgun "shell" that holds muiltiple darts? If such a shell could work, it'd probably be useful for close quarters.

Interesting addition though. I'm sure it'd look pretty good when painted but the Sharpie details are pretty nice.

One time, about a year ago, me and some friends had a 2v2 all Mavericks war in my friend's backyard. At the end, when we were ready to leave, one of my friends was bored and tried to fire a blank while pointing at his mouth. The barrel indexed the other way and shot the dart into his mouth. Good thing my Mav was never modded or he probably would've choked.

Another time, and more recently (a few months ago), we had a typical series of small games upstairs at my house. In my room, I happen to have some random cardboard boxes filled with packaging foam. In the games, we used a NF, LS, RF20, and a few Mav's. Sometime during a game, my friend (who's often crazy as hell) yells "SMOKE BOMB!" and dumps the packaging foam everywhere, and proceeds to do this with other boxes. Later, he's taking our larger boxes we used as cover (the box for the RF20 and LS) and throwing them around. Some of them broke off some leaves of a live plant below and overall, just pissed my mom off real bad. Eventually, we clean it up until it was spotless, but regardless, that kid's not going to be able to come over again.

Even more recently, we were nerfing at another friend's basement during break, just after thanksgiving (the same kid who shot a Mav dart into his mouth a year ago), we were doing random 2v2's. I brought my LS, NF, 4 Mavs, and a Tommy 20 (my RF20 was and still is broken), and my other friend brought over his 5 Mavs. Unfortunately, the house we were playing at just got painted recently, and on one of the games, another kid tripped into the wall while trying to retreat to cover, creating quite a mark on it which pretty much ended all our games.

Well, thats about it for now...

My "workshop" is also my family room. Right now it's a jumbled stack of:

-PVC and CPVC
-Random cardboard boxes and pieces
-2 open soakers that were never repaired
-A Mav and RF20 under repair
-Random tools (drill, dremel, PVC cutter, hacksaw, stuff like that)
-A homemade soaker and pneumatic water balloon launcher
-Gorilla glue and epoxy
-Some random other stuff

Later on, I'll have to get some FBR and more CPVC.

Removing the posts can improve dart compatibility in general. For example, streamlines do not work in many blasters because their AR posts are too long. Trimming or removing the posts from blasters like the NiteFinder, Strongarm, Rough Cut, Rapid Fire 20, Berserker, and numerous other blasters will make them more compatible.

On the other hand, some stock Buzz Bee barrels seal in the middle instead of the back of the dart. In this case, the AR post seems to push the foam out a bit to help it seal. This is primarily observable in the shells for Buzz Bee blasters, although if you're concerned about dart compatibility at all, it's best to avoid those blasters anyway. (As well as Streamlines in general; Elites don't have the compatibility problem with lengthy AR posts.) Aside from BBT blasters with shells, the Air Max 1 and 6 use barrels that seal mid-dart, and seem to only work very well with the included Extreme darts. If you don't plan on barrel modding, and care about dart compatibility, may need to avoid those blasters.

Barrel replacements are often the best mods, especially for air blasters. For springers, I shouldn't have to state the obvious that a stronger spring can make the blaster wear out faster, but the degree of that problem varies from blaster to blaster depending on how they're designed.

For safer dry firing (after AR's are removed), it's a good idea to pad the plunger. Buzz Bee does this on a number of blasters to make them safe to dry fire without any shells loaded. For my CPVC'd NF, I used a felt pad similar to (but larger than) the felts used in homemade slug darts. There may be a better solution out there that I'm not yet aware of, however. (Aside from the obvious, "don't dry fire" solution.)

I think the barrel pushes worn darts back in place much more so than AR posts. (At least in Nerf-branded blasters.) Like I mentioned previously, barrels that seal in the middle of the dart (i.e. some of the crappy ones BBT makes) may need the AR to assist in getting the dart to seal, but this design is very prone to problems overall even on darts that are used relatively lightly, and is why I don't buy shell-ejecting BBT blasters anymore. (The Air Max Extreme series has this problem too; they don't work as well with non-Extreme darts due to that seal, but I'm rebarreling these blasters anyway, which is why I picked them up.) Oddly enough, the Barbarian/Zerker doesn't have this design issue, and the barrel seals with the dart at the very end which makes it easier to load the dart into a tighter/better barrel seal.

I thrown worn darts out in a separate pile anyways. They can cause problems with jamming or simply not sealing with the barrels. I have a number of suction tip darts, and if they can no longer seal in, say, a Maverick, I often remove the tip/weight and glue it on the opposite side. They shoot like new after that.

Superstock:

- Compact: Nitefinder + Hammershot + dart pocket + BAJ

- Medium Firepower: Retaliator + jungle mags (no mag pouches) + Nitefinder + BAJ
- Heavy: 14.8v Stryfe + mag vest
- Superheavy: 4B absolver + 6 shells + 14.8v Stryfe + 6 18 mags (mag pouches + holster for Stryfe) + BAJ

- New: Sentinel + jungle mags + dart pocket + BAJ
- Scenario Games (HvZ, TTT): Hammershot or Strongarm + Jolt + dart pocket

 

I almost never use loadouts involving mag pouches and holsters due to the inhibition of mobility. It's been an annoyance even in mostly immobile attack/defend type games while defending.

 

NIC:

- Unshelled 4B + dart pocket
- Sceptor + dart pocket (indoors only)

- DCIT + dart pocket (CQB indoors only)

5/0 was just strange. I need to get the cosmetic changes to my Sceptor in place, because it would've been perfect for it. If the /0 part was changed to require an away-from-action spawn, I think it would play better, otherwise I should just rush people with an absolver or something.

 

Bomberman is interesting enough that I'd like to play it again. However, I'd change the mechanics to make it easier for the defending team to muck up the bomb. The way it currently works, the bomberman could be all alone but if you miss the bomb hit, you lose the entire opportunity.

 

Having a larger playing area would be nice, but that's the only con for this war. We had a lot of moments where we needed more room for teams to push each other around.

Most of the people I know are usually ok or good with it when I've explained some things about it and/or when they've played it. Then, there are the hardcore airsoft/paintball players who slightly look down on it. Still, for the most part, no one (who I talked to about it) says anything stupid about it.

Great first NIC war for me; thanks to Gears for hosting and to all who attended.

Unfortunately, most of my GoPro footage turned out to be trash. The camera was pointed too far upwards most of the time. Doesn't help that I was clumsy as hell whenever a new round would start that time. I'll have to get my gear in order next time to prevent that from happening again.

My first game was at Grid Code last year and then I played an NIC-style game with my Nerf group in OH. At first, I saw the open fields with sparse cover and said "meh" to Apoc. Now I regret missing 2014 and will line up to join 2015's.

I've always been primarily a stock-class player and never got too far into modding. I had trouble researching the techniques, hardware, and designs used until I managed to talk to a specific Nerf vet who could answer a very high volume of incessantly annoying n00b questions. After blowing plenty of cash on various projects and McMaster orders, I'm starting to find my home in building. I ended up taking PETG-barreled AT2k's to the OH group's church wars and I've gotten alright at it.

Now I have some NIC-ready blasters almost fully prepped, and some more to work on. I don't have any means nor motivation to even think about bothering with homemade springers, so I'll stick to air blasters. Having built water blasters before this, it's what I know best and what I'm best at. Of course, I'll need to get a chrono and follow a good OPRV design as I go into building them. Right now, I'm not the laziest of modders, but I demand high combat capability improvements for a given unit of time and work put into a mod. (Meaning I find things like bullpup Retaliators to be a complete waste of time.)

Anyway, I'm hoping to get some more games in next year.

Edit: First blasters were a bunch of Mavericks back in '06. I slowly expanded my stock collection after that before getting into modded/NIC class.

I also cannot make it on the 15th. The 22nd might work for me, but definitely not the 29th.

I can make it on the 22nd. I have a water war event on the weekend of the 29th.

I play all weather for Nerf, but that seems to be a minority.

Put me down as a maybe. I'm trying to get some OH nerfers to go as well.

Questions:
- Will we be playing amongst trees, open field, or both?
- Will there be mobstacles? Can we bring our own?
- What are the blaster air tank size/muzzle velocity restrictions?

"...these great innovators have not only shown others the way, but prevent that Nerf can compete with range comparable to paintball gun ranges. Among others, these four have been essential in making Nerf as enjoyable as it is today."

On the 8th paragraph, I believe "prevent" should be "proven".

Interesting essay... However, since I'm not really into writing, I'm not sure how it could be improved. (other than the typo I just pointed out)

Funny coincidence, I just got some FBR and hot glue today to begin experimenting. Overall, my progress with nerf has been very slow (last time I did anything was a RF20 repair a few months ago), but today, I just happened to remember to get that stuff. (however, I don't have any weights yet)

It's a good idea to test valves in the stores first to find the ones that open more easily.

Perhaps building a torque arm like this could help.

I've only tried silicone lube, which considerably slowed down one of my valves. It doesn't seem to be a reliable solution unless you're familiar with what works and doesn't with the various materials in the valve.

Now that enough people have necroed this thread... In 2016, the list of best buys have shuffled a bit. Behold, the Buzz Bee Sentinel! Cheap, NIB, makes for a loaner if the person using it knows how to deal with springers. The 20-dart mags are relatively cheap too, at least by retail standards.

 

Otherwise, go for that thrifted Retaliator, Strongarm, Stryfe, etc. if you don't want to spend too much money on stock-class loaners.

 

Edit: Re Aeromech's post: Darts popping out seem to be a problem with any smart AR system: Rough Cut, Triad, and perhaps Double Strike.

The public is indeed pretty bad, at least for my area. One time I scheduled a game on a playground; we don't paint our guns nor anything of the sort, and other kids had some. (and wanted to join us) Then, while my team is in a defensive position on one of the 2 play structures, some angry mother comes up and bellows at us to get off. This game just happened to be at the same time of a mass meeting, but people were cussing at us and thinking we were going to shoot the kids. (and would scare some off) We eventually moved over and played somewhere else.

And the worst part is that this was all with water guns, not nerf.

As we're playing along the new area (which was very far from the filling stations), we see some cops and public service cars around the area, though as far as I'm concerned, none of them said a word to me nor my team. (the public service or whoever did talk to someone on the other team though)

Now, imagine how much drama there would've been if we were using (unmodified) black painted nerfs, even if they had the bright muzzles and triggers unpainted.

I've found the vast majority of jamming and misfeeds to be caused by user error after loaning out a number of CS-based blasters over the years for casual indoor games. Some pull the trigger on the Maverick the wrong way, and the barrel doesn't index. Some move the bolt (on CS blasters) back and forth improperly when cycling and cause double-feeds. If whoever's using your blasters knows what they're doing, I don't think it's a problem at all, although the occasional deformed dart may cause problems. That said, most deformed darts are caused from improper operation and jams from my experience. Use some common sense, don't store darts in magazines nor barrels for too long, and never leave blasters primed when not in use.

I thought they added slam-fire to the Retaliator as they did to the Strongarm. I could be wrong though.

The main cases where Nerf is at fault is dart compatibility. Streamlines are incompatible with many blasters due to them having AR posts that are too long. Some blasters that use Elites will not work with Streamlines without modding.

I'll likely be in attendance. Looking forward to it!

This would've helped me a lot lol.



Good games. Wish I went earlier but now I know to commit to getting to wars on time. It looks like I missed out on a lot of NIC rounds.

Also, that wedding never happened. Kinda salty about that, since it cut the NIC rounds short.

Will definitely come down for wars in the future. Thanks Xellah for hosting!

I've had a few thoughts on semi/full auto blasters, and on paper, it seems easily possible to put something together that doesn't even require air compressors, HPA, etc., just a good pumping arm.

Ignoring the need for semi-auto, you'd think that rubber tubing able to output a short, constant-pressure air stream would work for an auto-hopper based homemade. After all, this video (that you guys should be familiar with) demonstrates it.

Unfortunately, it seems to need a very loose barrel, but that may not be the case if the air source is from rubber tubing (with sufficient pressure) instead of blowing on it.

After some testing today (with some tubes I took out from a water blaster homemade), and according to McMaster, the tubes hold around 30-35 PSI. (Probably dependent on temperature.) Not exactly sure if this is enough for something high-powered, but it should be manageable to get good performance out of with the right barrel fit/length.

For semi-auto, there's an old valve design that comes to mind. http://www.sscentral...de/testwbl.html It looks great on paper, but is a lot to put together. However, it should be an effective solution, assuming the air tube has enough volume to supply a decent number of shots. (Good pump design will be needed here.)

Anyway, I'm primarily trying to avoid heavy air compressors, expensive HPA tanks, regulators, etc. and uses a rubber bladder for constant air pressure, as well as an easy loading mechanism like the hopper. That said, there's a few principles that still apply even if you're using HPA or an air compressor.

As for the MForcer mod, the lack of constant air pressure for each shot means plenty of pumping after a few shots. With a constant pressure bladder tube, the last shots should be fairly consistent with the first even as the bladder is running out of air and the pressure drops off. I may be thinking this issue is worse than it actually is, but it's still something worth considering.

I confirmed my attendance. I need to buy quite a few things while I'm there as well as put a few blasters through proper war testing. Will likely have a +1.

Post it up on Facebook too so it's easier to share amongst some groups. Also, what kind of attendance are you expecting? Anyone from CANE? I might make the long haul down there as it's been a while since I've played.

Edit: +1 bailed, I think.

At the store, I personally check several valves and try to find one that works well. Also, some people who build homemade soakers and water balloon launcher use torque arms, as shown on some of the homemades I've done here:



The arms are important for quick opening on the balloon launcher, and are more comfortable to use for the soaker. I believe they would be useful for nerfing as well if a solenoid valve is unavailable, due to the faster opening time which allows more air to kick in at the dart at once.

Since I've never tried this on darts, I can't be sure on how it'll work, but the design concepts for water balloon launchers are very similar, from what I've seen. To create one, you'll need a stick of PVC, some bolts and nuts, and a drill.

Again, this is just supposed to be a cheaper alternative to solenoids and other valves, but you should probably use those if possible. Perhaps yet another possibility is to build a pull valve, where a piston blocks a hole, and the user pulls the piston open to release the air.

I'm usually more kindhearted (or at least not trying to look badass), but if someone's head is the only target presented, I'll have to shoot that. I do pass darts around (this is more of a tactical matter than who you are) and use charge-up attacks as well as attacking another while they're reloading. (though most people don't stick around to get shot at while reloading) The headshots aren't an issue because we only use stock darts and blasters right now. (we don't even use eye protection, though we probably should; if a stiff, well sealed dart that hardly fits in the barrel of a NF hits someone's eye at point blank, that would not be comfortable)

Either way, I don't care much about status, how nice or mean I look, etc. I just play.

The darts you're looking for are referred to as Voberries, but are found on eBay by searching "nerf dart hole". See this thread for more.

http://nerfhaven.com...ock-dart-guide/

However, these darts have horrendous accuracy. For a dart with similar compatibility and best price, look for what's referred to as USC's. Search "nerf dart sucker" on eBay to find them, or refer to the guide above. (Note that these darts have problems with flywheels unless the dart pusher is modified and/or the suction cups removed.) USC's are several orders of magnitude more accurate than Elites or Voberries. You can get similar results from Koosh and ACC darts as well. (Koosh is well reputed for flywhels too.)

Casual Stock Class: Leftover used Streamlines. They work in most blasters and I have a ton of them. I'm in the process of phasing out any darts that don't work in a magazine nor a lengthy non-stock barrel. (i.e. Speedloader or breech.) Eventually, I will start adding leftover Elites to the mix if I don't get rid of them by that time.

Stock Class: Voberry for compatibility, Koosh for performance. Usually just Koosh.

NIC: #8 slugs with beige foam.

https://goo.gl/maps/...4070K_r1UhGyUZs

Go here, not to the old park. (Cops.)