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Suggestions for motor-replacing a flywheel blaster while still using I

battery batteries IMR motor

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#1 FineDwarvenMods

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 03:22 PM

Hey all, new user and first post, so bear with me a little bit;

 

After significant searching online and in too many forums, I've still yet to come across a good answer to the following question, and my own know-how for electronics is nowhere near significant enough to find the specifications I need by name, so:

 

I'm looking for a drop-in 130 motor replacement for a Demolisher/etc. flywheel blaster, similar to the MTB Rhinos, but that will run on 4 IMR 3.7v batteries. I know that about 105% of you will say "Well, in the end, a LiPO block will do you better" and I get that, but I don't care, right now i'd just like to run off 4 IMR batteries in the standard battery casing.

 

I've already upgraded the wiring to 18ga, and am using the worker Demolisher flywheels (This particular mod i'm working on is for a Demolisher), but with 2 IMR batteries and 2 dummies, which is I feel the maximum safe amount I can do on stock motors for continued (1-hour long period) usage, I'm still not getting the performance i'd like, so i'd like to replace the motors so I can safely pop in 4 IMRs.

 

Anyone have any recommendations, information, or other advice they can give with this? Will the MTB Rhinos function on 4 IMRs, albeit not at maximum performance? Or will they demand too much current from the battery and give me trouble (Even with your average IMR getting an extra 5-600 mAh when compared to a li-ion battery).

 

Thanks in Advance, and hopefully don't be too harsh in case of my ignorance on subjects,

FineDwarvenMods


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#2 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 04:01 PM

No offense but you obviously have seen the mtb rhino motors so you did a small amount of research but really not enough.(asking people on this forum not to be harsh is like screaming at them saying ROAST ME) But look at the voltage they run on and you are getting around 13 volts yet they are rated for 12. It isnt that much of a difference in fact those are the motors you should get. Not hard of a question but you would be better off messaging someone who would know like poster of the "Which is the best motor after extensive testing" thread.
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#3 Duke Wintermaul

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 05:41 PM

Rhinos will handle 4 IMR's just fine, but like you said capacity and amperage leave something to be desired.

There is no 130 motor currently produced that is spec'ed for 14+volts. Rhinos will be your best bet.

If you need a pair hit me up.

@CCBall

Guess again, those have an operating voltage of 12volts; the exact same operating voltage as Rhinos.

Can you overvolt them?Sure, just like you can overvolt Rhinos.

Should you be running ANY 130 motor on 4s? No.


Edited by Duke Wintermaul, 02 May 2016 - 09:32 PM.

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#4 CCBall

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 09:12 PM

Rhinos will handle 4 IMR's just fine, but like you said capacity and amperage leave something to be desired.

There is no 130 motor currently produced that is spec'ed for 14+volts. Rhinos will be your best bet.

If you need a pair hit me up.

Actually, there is. That would be a Ninco XLOT XL2 motor. They get 28k rpm on 4s, at 330 g/cm of torque.

@Duke Wintermaul,

At least they're a better option than motors that will get unnecessary dart slippage. They've been used before with good results, too.


Edited by CCBall, 21 May 2016 - 11:17 PM.

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#5 FineDwarvenMods

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 04:18 PM

Rhinos will handle 4 IMR's just fine, but like you said capacity and amperage leave something to be desired.

There is no 130 motor currently produced that is spec'ed for 14+volts. Rhinos will be your best bet.

If you need a pair hit me up.

@CCBall

Guess again, those have an operating voltage of 12volts; the exact same operating voltage as Rhinos.

Can you overvolt them?Sure, just like you can overvolt Rhinos.

Should you be running ANY 130 motor on 4s? No.

Thanks Duke, this was intuitive and helped me understand the issue behind what I'm wanting. I'll probably just switch to a 3s and Rhinos, in that case. Are there any other recommendations you can give for getting high-velocity and accuracy on a flywheel blaster? A particular 3s battery that might do me better than another, etc.? I admittedly know very little about lipo batteries.

 

Also, will a snug barrel (Say.. 15/32" brass on stock elites/koosh darts) actually help with accuracy or range on a flywheel blaster, or does that really only apply to blasters physically pushing the dart out with air pressure (springers/air pumps)

edit: having seen many of your posts on the subject in past topics by doing a little googling, I guess your testing has gone to show that upgrading the barrel to brass will only decrease accuracy in flywheels. Simply put, is there ANY sort of barrel replacement I can do on a flyhweel blaster that will if not improve performance outright, at least be less messy and large of a hole as the normal nerf barrel and still not inhibit performance?

Actually, there is. That would be a Kysan 17114 motor. That is, according to 498 Nerf, who used them in a dual stage rapidstrike on IMR batteries. Also said by him is that the get around 30k rpm on 4s.

@Duke Wintermaul

At least they're a better option than motors that will get unnecessary dart slippage. They've been used before with good results, too.

Keeping these motors in mind, when compared to the Rhinos, is the torque on these really sufficiently increased to help with dart slippage? In the event that I want to do a sub-par mod and just plop in 3 IMR batteries (on a different blaster than the one i'm working on now), do you think this motor would be giving me better performance than the rhino with IMRs?

 

Thanks, again sorry for all the questions i'm just very new to this stuff and much of the terminology isn't intuitive to me yet.


Edited by FineDwarvenMods, 03 May 2016 - 04:35 PM.

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#6 CCBall

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 05:23 PM

It's not the torque that prevents dart slippage (but more of it helps), it's the lack or rpm. Rhinos on 4s will get unnecessary rpm that will cause slippage (I think I heard from 498 Nerf it was around 44k rpm) which will decrease fps and accuracy. Heavier flywheels (I think) will help with dart slippage, as more energy is transferred.
I've read that glass-ceiling velocities are produced from 20k to 30k rpm.
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#7 jwasko

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:26 PM

In theory, 3x IMRs powering MTB RHinos will get the same motor RPM as a 3S LiPo because they will be providing the same (nominal) voltage. As long as you get close to 30,000 RPM, you will get maximum dart velocity (for a single pair of flywheels).

 

If you raise the RPM significantly...say to 40,000+RPM...then the darts will go no faster but you will wear out your darts more quickly because there will actually be more slippage. In other words, there's normally not much use running Rhinos at that high of a voltage. Have you read this by chance?

 

However, you will see increased rev-up times on IMRs compared to LiPo due to insufficient current Adding voltage may help alleviate this somewhat, but again it will be hard on darts and your motors.

 

I haven't really seen much/anything on worker flywheels for the demolisher. Actually I thought the demolisher's stock flywheels/cage were fairly decent. If you get upgrade motors, you may want to try both the stock and worker flywheels to see which work better.

 

Oh and any sort of barrel mod for flywheels is still really experimental. I thinnk people have used 17/32 or 9/16 brass (can't remember which but 15/32" is way too tight) with the Dr Snikkas cages. It's very short and I guess just helps guide the dart a little bit as it comes through the flywheels.


Edited by jwasko, 03 May 2016 - 09:27 PM.

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#8 FineDwarvenMods

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:42 AM

Thanks all, after doing more research and taking jwasko and duke's statements into account I think i've got a grasp on this stuff now, i'll use a 3s lipo and rhinos for this mod, and maybe look into afterburners as well in the far future to improve the range and velocity (but afterburners in a demolisher would be kinda tricky, it may need a barrel extension)

 

But, now I know that the IMRs I ordered also aren't completely useless, I can do a much cheaper mod using the IMRs and a 3-battery pack to boost flywheel performance without much effort. I wouldn't wanna do that for my current project, but maybe I could test it on my girlfriend's stryfe and see the performance difference, taking CCball's motor suggestion into account

 

Thanks again,

FDM


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#9 CCBall

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 03:48 PM

I have found a link for demolisher worker flywheels if you want them:

http://www.ebay.com/...y-/272141507059


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