22 replies to this topic

[Ryan201821]

FIRING VIDEO





Inspired by the Rainbow catch, and Stark's Pump-action Snap, I've build a pump-action Rainbow.



The main grip is very similar to the PAC handles, except for the way it's attached. The handle is screwed in from the top, down into the wood. I had to drill access holes at the top of the pump grip and plunger tube, to get the screwdriver inside the plunger tube.



The white thing joining the back of the gun to the front is a 1 1/4" internal PVC coupler. Here is a link to some sites who sell them. I'm not sure which one was the cheapest. Make sure they are for Sch 40. I cut down the ends of each side to shorten up the gun.



The pump grip pushes back a 3/16" steel rod, going through the plunger rod. There's slotted piece of 1 1/4" off the back of the internal coupler, to align the metal rod. Over all of that, there is a piece of 2" PVC, which floats over the pump grip, and eliminates face-diddle. The 2" PVC also fits perfectly over the 1 1/4" Tee used for the stock. I put two screws through the Tee, and the 2" PVC. Originally I figured I would have to screw the 2" on the other side near the catch. So I cut part of a 1 1/4" coupler, and attached it with set screws in between the gap in the pump grip. I definitely didn't end up needing it since the pump grip fits inside the 2" PVC very nicely. The Tee centers the 2" since it's over the end of the 1 1/4" segment.



The front bushing is a 1 1/4" internal coupler cut off (the left over piece from the other one). Turns out 1/2" couplers fit inside the internal coupler. I solvent welded the two couplers together, and secured it with eight set screws. The pump grip goes over the bushing and past the end of the gun. I cut out section for the hopper clip.



Another random thing. I found a piece of what SoCal nerfers know as "hotrodz", or some random plastic tube that happens to be perfect size (.510 x .625). I was having problems with the spring getting caught inside the catch notch, just before it reached the actual catch. I put a small piece of this tube in there, and it completely stopped it from occuring.



My grand master plan at first was for this to be dry-fire-able, like the PAC. I was going to use this rubber foam tube stuff I got from McMaster which fits in 1 1/4" perfectly. Few problems with it. It added a lot of deadspace. Sometimes the rubber would collapse in on itself when firing. It didn't even pad the plunger enough to make it any less quiet. I even tried using 6-8 inches and jamming it inside. So, for now, my quest for the first dry-fire-able springer is still a dream.

===================

Final thoughts, comments

These things are hella cheap. Sure, I used super nice clear tubes, which were relatively expensive, but you can use opaque stuff. The only piece that needs to be clear (for ease of construction), is the plunger tube itself, which is only about 14-16". The pump grip (2" Polyester) can be substituted for 1.5" thinwall, which does exist. I've seen it at Lowes and it's possible Home Depot may have it as well. It's usually far behind the regular stuff, hidden. So with just the plunger tube being clear, these only cost $15-20.

The only other problem of this is the length. I had 6.5" of draw on this one. I'll definitely cut it down and inch or more, and I can effectively shorten the gun up by a few inches, and it will still be plenty powerful.

Overall, it's beautiful. It has the supa smooth priming motion and re-fire rate of the PACs although you can hide behind trees!

Edited by Ryan201821, 29 October 2010 - 03:46 PM.

[Fome]

That is super duper sexy. Great job.

Awesome find on the internal coupler.

[SonReeceSonJensen]

Mortherfudge, every blaster I have is dinosauric AGAIN!

I will pay you two American dollars if you make an itemized parts list with serial numbers/where to get them. One dollar for the effort, and another cuz I just don’t want to re-read everything and list it out myself.

Also: Titsprop on the innovation here. So I guess transitive titsprops to Stark.

[Y-Brik]

I may have a solution to the dry fire issue (Hint- extension springs and nylon cord). I' m sketching it out now and will try to get it up by tomorrow. Ryan, that blaster is mad sexy, I may have to get one (Discount if this idea works?)!

[Lt Stefan]

How do you cut the slots in the plunger/pump tubes... With a dremel?

Very nice design.

[lionhawk]

This, is a beauty.

[Ryan201821]

SonReeceSonJensen, on Oct 29 2010, 07:28 AM, said:

I will pay you two American dollars if you make an itemized parts list with serial numbers/where to get them. One dollar for the effort, and another cuz I just don’t want to re-read everything and list it out myself.

Also: Titsprop on the innovation here. So I guess transitive titsprops to Stark.

These are most of the basic things you'll need to build it. Again, you can substitute PVC for the pump grip and the sheath. You'll also need to get an internal coupler from a different site. Link is in the first post. Also note you'll have to over-order a bunch of stuff.

49035K26 -Std-Wall (Schedule 40) Clear PVC Unthrd Pipe 1-1/4" Pipe Size X 4' Length
9245K51 - Clear PETG Tube 2" OD, 1 3/4" ID
49035K28 -Std-Wall (Schedule 40) Clear PVC Unthrd Pipe 2" Pipe Size X 4' Length
9562K46 - Stretch-Fit Rotary-Shaft Ring Seal 1" Shaft Diameter, 0.95" to 1.07" Shaft Diameter
8541K18 - Black Nylon 6/6 Rod 1/2" Diameter
9637K26 - Continuous-Length Compression Spring Spring-Tempered Steel, 11" L, .844" OD, .08" Wire
4880K71 - Std-Wall (Schedule 40) White PVC Pipe Fitting 1/2" Pipe Size, Coupling, 1-21/32" Length
9120K9 - Galvanized Low-Carbon Steel Rod 3/16" Diameter, 3' Length
8574K27 - Polycarbonate Sheet 3/16" Thick, 12" X 12", Clear
8574K28 - Polycarbonate Sheet 1/4" Thick, 12" X 12", Clear
92311A146 - Type 18-8 SS Cup Point Socket Set Screw 6-32 Thread, 3/8" Length, packs of 100
90272A151 - Zinc-Pltd Stl Pan Head Phillips Machine Screw 6-32 Thread, 3/4" Length
90272A155 - Zinc-Pltd Stl Pan Head Phillips Machine Screw 6-32 Thread, 1-1/4" Length

You'll also need some type of catch spring. I just used something sitting around in the garage. It doesn't have to be terrible strong, something along the lines of what a plusbow uses, should work well.

Quote

I may have a solution to the dry fire issue (Hint- extension springs and nylon cord). I' m sketching it out now and will try to get it up by tomorrow. Ryan, that blaster is mad sexy, I may have to get one (Discount if this idea works?)!

Interesting, I'd like to see what you come up with.

Quote

How do you cut the slots in the plunger/pump tubes... With a dremel?

Very nice design.

Yeah, a dremel. I know, crazy. There wasn't really any other tool I could have used for this. However I cut the slots in the 1 1/4" with the scrollsaw.


Thanks for the feedback, guys. Really appreciated.

Edited by Ryan201821, 13 March 2011 - 09:09 PM.

[Mehku]

Wow, my poor plusbow is fucking ancient. Mind if I test drive this at WINO? I might want to build one because it looks a lot easier to make than some other alternatives, and it just looks fucking cool.

[Ryan201821]

Here's a firing video, for your enjoyment.

[Talio]

How about ranges? Standard plusbow/pumpbow/whateverbow ranges?

[Ryan201821]

Talio, on Oct 29 2010, 03:55 PM, said:

How about ranges? Standard plusbow/pumpbow/whateverbow ranges?

Oh yeah, shoots the same 120' as all my blasters with slugs. Even decreasing the draw to make the blaster shorter would probably yield the same range, maybe a few feet less. Not that you'd need the length of it shortened anyway.

[Y-Brik]

@Talio- judging that the PT is 1.25" with a [k26] and skirt seal, +bow or, more accurately, SNAP ranges are the likely result. This design is just sexier, higher RoF, and more durable than a traditional CPT SNAP.

My idea: I've come to the conclusion that plunger head padding sucks. It jams, introduces deadspace, and the material always gets smashed into uselessness. So if slowing the PH down from the front fails, how about from the back? The Rainbowpump has a great platform as the plunger rod is encased in PVC and has a VERY sturdy stock, so on to my sketch. (This was done in my Engineering class, hence the formality, and in hand, hence the shitty drawing/handwriting. Now, let's see if I can post pictures...)


The goal is to stop the PH a fraction of an inch before the bushing. The nylon cord allows full plunger velocity along the draw, then the (beefy) extension spring+cord slows and stops the PH. At the moment, the biggest issue I see is the stress put on the nylon plunger rod, I don't know if it can hold. Still, I trust Ryan and co. have enough time, materials, and skill to try it out- good luck!
This is an initial idea, keep the questions and ideas coming!

[atomatron]

(Generic compliment on quality of the blaster and how cool/effective it looks)

Would putting a spring on the plunger rod between the steel bar and the back plate of the catch assembly work to make it dry fire-able?



Also; that plastic bin in the last pic is mine. I wondered where it was.

[Green Wing]

Amazing work as always. I really like how this is so cheap and relatively easy to make. Supa dupa mad props. Now for some questions...

1. How much more difficult(If at all) is this to prime compared to a Pacbow?

2. Which do you think you would do better in a war with, a Pacbow or a Rainbowpump?

[Daniel Beaver]

Hah, nice solution for the face diddle. Length is always a problem on these pump-action blasters, especially if you want super draw. Good to see these catches getting used.

Also: Internal PVC couplers are the holy fucking grail of fittings. Awesome that those worked out. Is that whole front coupler assembly air-tight without having to use any sealants?

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 29 October 2010 - 07:00 PM.

[nerkum]

Excellent job Ryan, your craftmanship is top notch as always. Are you going to use the Rainbow catch in a Pacbow in the future?

[Ryan201821]

@ Y-brik: That may work, I don't know. Seems a bit over-complicated. Try it and see if it works.

@ atomatron: I was hoping I could make the gun effectively quieter in the process of making it dry-fire-able. I don't think adding additional springs would help. A lot of the noise from the gun is the spring rattling around.

@ Beaver: No tape was used, although I did bathe it in some MEK before hammering them together. I'm sure the fit may vary depending on the 1/2" coupler and the inside of the internal coupler. PVC fittings can vary quite a bit.

@Green Wing: The PAC is easier to prime than this, because the [k26] has more tension than what is normally used with the Crossbows. You also have less friction when priming the PACs, due to the lack of the spring rubbing against the plunger rod. As a result, the PACs are very quiet compared to any blaster.

If you want to utterly destroy people at wars, you use this. It's very maneuverable, and you can hide behind trees. The PACs have exactly the same performance, but smoother priming, and much less maneuverable. I haven't used this yet in a war, and probably won't until next year, which by then, may be obsolete. Either option though, will be among the best blasters out on the field anywhere.

@nerkum: Almost definitely. We still have a bunch of PACs around, so one may not be built for some time.

Edited by Ryan201821, 30 October 2010 - 02:38 AM.

[Y-Brik]

Ryan201821, on Oct 30 2010, 02:37 AM, said:

@ Y-brik: That may work, I don't know. Seems a bit over-complicated. Try it and see if it works.

Here's the thing- I don't have a RainBow at the moment and wont be building one soon. I can tinker with it on my +bow, but it wont be as useful. Oh, and how is it overcomplicated? It's a nylon cord and extension spring anchored within the tee that makes the stock.

[Ice Nine]

Y-Brik, on Oct 30 2010, 03:22 PM, said:

Here's the thing- I don't have a RainBow at the moment and wont be building one soon. I can tinker with it on my +bow, but it wont be as useful. Oh, and how is it overcomplicated? It's a nylon cord and extension spring anchored within the tee that makes the stock.

First of all, go fuck yourself. Secondly, it is definitely overcomplicated. Are you an idiot? To make the crossbows dry-fireable all they had to do was slip some flexible tubing over some string that was already there.

Let me list all those steps out:

1.) Remove string from arms.
2.) Place tubing on string.
3.) Put string on arms.

That is a sufficiently uncomplicated idea.

For your stupid-ass idea, you have to work out a proper length of string such that the extension spring starts to pull on the plunger just before the plunger reaches the most forward part of its stroke. You have to attach a stupid system to the internal part of the stock. You have to make sure the system doesn't fuck with the pump-action, like not getting caught.

Do you know what makes this even sadder? Your idea is hugely outclassed by putting a fucking piece of rubber or foam on the plunger head to stop impact. Fuck you, your idea is as shitty as it is complicated.

[Ryan201821]

And in the further iterations of the Crossbow, the string itself was what stopped the plunger. Extremely simple and easy to implement. Now, this is a bit different since I don't have bow strings to stop the plunger.

The beauty of this design, is it's simplicity. You idea calls for finding an extension spring that is the perfect length and, perfect spring constant, while you have to get the length of the nylon cord perfect length as well. Good luck with that. Anchoring the extension spring to the Tee is also another hassle I don't want to deal with.

Especially since, after the blaster is primed, you have only one, maybe two inches between the end of the inside of the Tee, from the end of the plunger rod. Not enough room for an extension spring, or enough room to anchor the spring to anything back there. You wouldn't be able to increase the length of the blaster, since it's already a bit too long in the first place. You also have to worry about the nylon cord getting caught around the spring, and I don't know anyway of preventing that. Now at this point, you see it's over-complicated? You're solving one problem, but creating more in the process, while adding cost per gun.

Like I said to atomatron, I don't think extra springs are the answer. My other motivation for making these dry-fire-able, was to make them quieter when firing, a giant bonus feature the PACs have. Adding additional springs will only make that problem worse.

I think there are better ideas for this. I don't think plunger head padding is going to work, but this definitely isn't the best, or even a good option. If you're convinced your idea is great, try it out yourself and prove me wrong. If not, gtfo.

[KaneTheMediocre]

I did this to my PAC, which admittedly was already dry-fireable. However, the string hitting the slot does appear to cause wear on the string, which doesn't happen anymore. Also, it's even quieter than it was before--The catch falling into place sounds thunderously loud compared to actually firing.


Note the glare is not another string.



So,

1) Make a hole in one side of your stock / frame / shell,
2) Put a string through the hole from 1)
3) Put a hole in the plunger rod
4) Put put the string through the hole from 3)
5) Put a hole on the other side of your stock / frame / shell
6) Put the string through the hole from 5)
7) Tie knots on both sides of the string, outside of holes 1) and 5)
8) Tape over/cover up the loose string if you like.

The impact / shock of the plunger losing it's momentum is now taken symmetrically by the tensile strength of the string and the plunger rod.

This should work on most pump action blasters, and probably a few others. It's nice to use the tensile rather than compressive strength of the material to take the load, because tensile strength is vastly greater for most materials.

[Ryan201821]

Awesome, this is perfect. Now I need to go try it. This might be the first time ever you've posted something before I even knew about it.

[Y-Brik]

KaneTheMediocre, on Nov 1 2010, 09:09 PM, said:

I did this to my PAC, which admittedly was already dry-fireable. However, the string hitting the slot does appear to cause wear on the string, which doesn't happen anymore. Also, it's even quieter than it was before--The catch falling into place sounds thunderously loud compared to actually firing.
[Pic]
Note the glare is not another string.



So,

1) Make a hole in one side of your stock / frame / shell,
2) Put a string through the hole from 1)
3) Put a hole in the plunger rod
4) Put put the string through the hole from 3)
5) Put a hole on the other side of your stock / frame / shell
6) Put the string through the hole from 5)
7) Tie knots on both sides of the string, outside of holes 1) and 5)
8) Tape over/cover up the loose string if you like.

The impact / shock of the plunger losing it's momentum is now taken symmetrically by the tensile strength of the string and the plunger rod.

This should work on most pump action blasters, and probably a few others. It's nice to use the tensile rather than compressive strength of the material to take the load, because tensile strength is vastly greater for most materials.

Thanks for giving it a shot Kane! Yeah, my little trials with my +bow ruled out the extension spring in about 30 seconds, I do agree with all the rather colorfully worded opinions on that front (in my defense, I used it to limit stress on the nylon rod- I'm anything but experienced with them. Given Kane seems to be doing just fine with an unbuffered string, I guess the whole thing was moot anyway.). My attempt with the bolt was to make the entire mech internal to maintain the aesthetics of the RBP, but function seems to outweigh form here.

So yeah, Kane rocks.

Edited by Y-Brik, 01 November 2010 - 09:56 PM.