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New style of internal catch

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#51 CaptainSlug

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:17 AM

This thread means something, this thread is important.
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#52 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 04:52 PM

I had mentioned in one of the ring catch threads that a primary design flaw of the Rainbow catch was direction-specific notch.

That is no longer a problem. I spent a couple hours playing around with some omni-directional catch designs, and I think this works the best:

Posted Image

I cut the nylon rod in two, and screwed the halves back together using a length of 8-32 threaded rod. A minute with the dremel gives you a nice beveled edge on the sliding end, and the orthogonal cut acts as the catch face. It seems to catch even better than the stock design, and the priming action is somewhat smoother. I drilled the holes slightly off-kilter (the whole plunger rod is crooked now), but it doesn't seem to affect a damn thing. All in all, I think it is a marked improvement in the overall function of the blaster.
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#53 venom213

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 06:00 PM

You'll have to see how well that holds up, beaver. I'm just concerned that a screw that small might bend easily. When used in a pump action blaster with an internal plunger rod, I see this as being less likely of an issue opposed to regular pull-back draw.
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#54 jakejagan

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 07:32 PM

I remember people saying that these were war-tested, how did they perform?
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#55 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 07:32 PM

Venom:
The screw should not experiences any extreme bending forces. Remember, the only bending moment on the plunger rod is exerted by the catch spring pushing down. And even that bending moment is constrained by the front and rear guide plates. The lack of those bending moments is the main reason that catches are easy release. Worst case scenario, you could setup up to a larger screw size. The only other source of bending I can think of right now is if a user pulled the plunger rod really off-kilter.

As with all new designs, this omni-notch needs to be war-tested before claims of it's durability and reliability can be confirmed. I am, however, very confident that this will prove itself.

Incidentally: the PVC catch face I made is still holding up fine, with no signs of wear.


I remember people saying that these were war-tested, how did they perform?

The original set of three Rainbows have been through 2 wars, with no notable breakages or performance issues. In-field performance is on par with current top-of-the-line blasters, as would be expected. Ryan's pump-action Rainbows are percolating throughout the community, so we will begin to see some opinions from other Nerfers once the springtime wars pick up.

The design presented in the original post is functional, and has displayed exceptional short-term durability. Next summer will be the real test of their long-term durability.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 27 December 2010 - 07:46 PM.

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#56 Ryan201821

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 03:06 PM

Interesting Beaver, but I don't like it. I'd worry the threads in the nylon slowly stripping to the point where the plunger rod breaks in half. I noticed a problem with this when building +bows, and the plunger head popping off over time, even using up to 3/4" of the screw inside the plunger rod. However, this only really happened after repeated use over a long period of time. Still, it's better to be safe than sorry.

To prevent the plunger rod from rotating, we've been doing this to all the Rainbows, which aligns the notch with the catch easily, and prevents damage to your blaster when dry-firing.

Another option obviously would be square plunger rods, but if a CNC machine isn't cutting out my catch pieces, I really wouldn't want to cut internal squares instead of just drilling one hole.

I remember people saying that these were war-tested, how did they perform?

The original set of three Rainbows have been through 2 wars, with no notable breakages or performance issues. In-field performance is on par with current top-of-the-line blasters, as would be expected. Ryan's pump-action Rainbows are percolating throughout the community, so we will begin to see some opinions from other Nerfers once the springtime wars pick up.

The design presented in the original post is functional, and has displayed exceptional short-term durability. Next summer will be the real test of their long-term durability.

None of the Rainbows I've made, have been throughly war tested so it's hard to say. I have fired them several, several times, and not noticed any wear, or any noticeable issues with durability. Like Beaver said, only really time and use will tell their durability. My opinion, these will have no problem over time. I know a couple people who already have a RainbowPump, used it in a war, and worked flawlessly.
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#57 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 06:52 PM

You really think the threaded rod will pull out over time? I thought that was one of the strong points of the +bow plunger rod design.

In any case, it probably makes more sense to use a traditional notch on a pump-action blaster. As you mentioned, it is straight-forward to make a self-aligning plunger rod (in which case an omni-directional catch is pointless). This new notch is meant for pull-priming blasters, where this is a more critical design criterion. Square plunger rods are the other good solution, but it sucks to make square internal cuts.
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#58 Ryan201821

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 08:19 PM

You really think the threaded rod will pull out over time? I thought that was one of the strong points of the +bow plunger rod design.

In any case, it probably makes more sense to use a traditional notch on a pump-action blaster. As you mentioned, it is straight-forward to make a self-aligning plunger rod (in which case an omni-directional catch is pointless). This new notch is meant for pull-priming blasters, where this is a more critical design criterion. Square plunger rods are the other good solution, but it sucks to make square internal cuts.

Most likely not, but it's very possible. It's definitely not one of the strong points in the +bow, either. Armageddon '09 my +bow had this problem during the second round. Luckily I had super glue on hand and glued in the screw to make it work temporarily.

Anyway, who makes pull-action blasters anyway?

I like the effort though. An omni-directional catch would be pretty neat, but cutting the plunger rod in half and attaching it back together with a screw isn't the best solution.
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#59 NerfGeek416

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:57 PM

Could you make the catch raised, rather than indented? What if you bored out a CPVC coupler, and cemented that where the catch notch would be. With a little sanding, the catch plate would slide over the back of the endcap, and lock in the flat front part.
Would this work?
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#60 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 10:58 PM

I've thought about that for a long time, but I ultimately always discard that idea for a number of reasons. The main issue I have with raised notches is that you need to make the catch hole a lot wider, and that leaves less space for the outer support structure of the catch itself. That's not a problem with an external catch, such as the 2-11's. But internal catches are very much limited in the size of the plunger tube, and raised notches further confound the designer.

I like raised notches in theory, though I think a CPVC coupler is far too large given the size of the plunger tube. I've got it in my mind that a 1/2" wooden dowel with a ring of CPVC would do the trick, but you can't exactly just slide a short section of CPVC down the length of a wooden dowel (super tight fit). I'll think of something eventually.

My point is: every time I try to do this, I just think: man, this would be a lot more straightforward if I just used an indented notch. I suppose that's not really an "innovator's attitude".
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#61 TxNerfer

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 01:05 PM

Just thought I'd add my thoughts on these catches: If you have a hole saw, make a Rainbow. I've been cutting a few circles and catches for when I actually get some clear pvc and these things are stupidly simple. With the proper tools, these things take about 5 minutes to make the catch. I have to admit, I was a part of the Snap vs. Rainbow argument on Nerf Revolution in favor of Snaps, but now I know how easy these are to make, I don't think I'll ever make a Snap again.

EDIT: I had to go on a different computer with a different version of Adobe on it to get the catch template. Any chance of one of you making it a word document?

Edited by TxNerfer, 31 December 2010 - 01:27 PM.

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#62 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:02 PM

Which version of acrobat are you using? It should work even on fairly old versions. I would rather keep it in PDF format in any case, since it preserves dimensions well.

I would agree in your assessment about the ease of construction. Though the materials are harder to acquire, the actual construction process is more straight-forward than a SNAP. And before any nay-sayers jump on me for that statement, I would suggest: build one before you judge.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 01 January 2011 - 12:05 PM.

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#63 Carbon

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 01:54 PM

Which version of acrobat are you using? It should work even on fairly old versions. I would rather keep it in PDF format in any case, since it preserves dimensions well.

You'd be amazed at how many people are still chugging along on Acrobat Reader version 5...and based on how freaking bloated Reader has become, I don't entirely blame them. Anyway, based on PDF version (1.6), the template will be happiest in Reader version 7 or newer.

As long as I'm here...one thing to watch out for with printing out a PDF (since I see it all the time at work): make sure the print driver isn't set to "scale to printable area". Acrobat oftentimes defaults to this behavior, which screws up the print size.

Though the materials are harder to acquire, the actual construction process is more straight-forward than a SNAP. And before any nay-sayers jump on me for that statement, I would suggest: build one before you judge.

Truth, if for no other reason than because you can build one using a template.

Edited by Carbon, 01 January 2011 - 02:04 PM.

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#64 TxNerfer

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 09:54 PM

I really have no idea what verison of Acrobat I have but I believe it said on their website that I needed the latest version, which was $20. Anyways, Kidflash was kind enough to open it up, save it to word, and e-mail me the file. I hope it prints to scale. That may be something to look into for future Rainbow builders.

Once my amp sells and I get the cash for some skirts and clear pvc, I'll post a more accurate asessment of these blasters.
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#65 Carbon

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:12 AM

I really have no idea what verison of Acrobat I have but I believe it said on their website that I needed the latest version, which was $20.

Acrobat Reader is free.
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#66 Ryan201821

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

Figured I'd post my templates of the Rainbow catch. The piece with the 1/2" hole goes in front to align the plunger rod, and prevent the spring from getting caught inside the whole. The back one is 9/16" hole, so you don't need to align the two discs perfectly. Making both of them 1/2" requires you to have the circles perfectly cut, with the center holes, perfectly centered, or you'll create tons of unnecessary friction. Making the back hole bigger gives you larger tolerances.

Here's the link.
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#67 venom213

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 06:15 PM

Figured I'd post my templates of the Rainbow catch. The piece with the 1/2" hole goes in front to align the plunger rod, and prevent the spring from getting caught inside the whole. The back one is 9/16" hole, so you don't need to align the two discs perfectly. Making both of them 1/2" requires you to have the circles perfectly cut, with the center holes, perfectly centered, or you'll create tons of unnecessary friction. Making the back hole bigger gives you larger tolerances.

Here's the link.

Great idea. I've been having some problems with there being too much friction on the plunger rod of the Rainbow I built and I totally didn't realize this as a solution.
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#68 DX-Robert

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 09:14 PM

Hey just wondering, has anyone used their Rainbow at a cold weather war yet? If so, how well did it hold up? I intend to use one from Ryan's batch in 5 days and it is looking to be about 30 degrees. I'm not too concerned, the thing looks pretty damn solid, but reliability in cold weather has always been on my mind since my Maximizer blew up last year.
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#69 Ryan201821

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 09:59 PM

Hey just wondering, has anyone used their Rainbow at a cold weather war yet? If so, how well did it hold up? I intend to use one from Ryan's batch in 5 days and it is looking to be about 30 degrees. I'm not too concerned, the thing looks pretty damn solid, but reliability in cold weather has always been on my mind since my Maximizer blew up last year.

You will not have any problems at all. I haven't fired these blaster in weather that's warmer than 30 degrees.

Edit: You may experience problems with dart/barrel fit, but that should be a given.

Edited by Ryan201821, 03 January 2011 - 10:03 PM.

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#70 utahnerf

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:09 PM

Figured I'd post my templates of the Rainbow catch. The piece with the 1/2" hole goes in front to align the plunger rod, and prevent the spring from getting caught inside the whole. The back one is 9/16" hole, so you don't need to align the two discs perfectly. Making both of them 1/2" requires you to have the circles perfectly cut, with the center holes, perfectly centered, or you'll create tons of unnecessary friction. Making the back hole bigger gives you larger tolerances.

Here's the link.


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Edited by utahnerf, 03 January 2011 - 11:10 PM.

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#71 HasreadCoC

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:58 AM

Lnk


Did anyone else get sent to a site that wouldn't let you leave? And no, there were not any naked women.

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Well, it seemed rather iffy it me within the first 2 seconds due to tons of popups and such, so I closed it, but it did "let me leave" though.
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#72 utahnerf

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 01:27 PM

I had to shut down my computer. I thought it was hilarious.
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#73 DX-Robert

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 11:45 AM

I'd just like to report that my Rainbowpump worked perfectly at BFNY back on Saturday, through a good 6 hours of cold and snow. No trace of wear yet on the catch. Hopper jammed several times, but I'll blame that on dart fit, I need to make a barrel for the stiffer, larger foam that I typically use.
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#74 utahnerf

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

I'm sure this has been asked before, but what is the total cost of parts for the first blaster, excluding the [k26]?
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#75 iDrag0m1r

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:39 PM

Somewhere around $80. It sucks, but you'll have 3x the parts you need so for like $20 extra you can make 3.
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