157 replies to this topic

[Daniel Beaver]

ABS is weaker than PVC, and can shatter. Probably okay, though.

[street slick]

Well I bought some ABS because it wasnt as long as the pvc so it could fit in my car, and it was cheaper where I was getting my materials. Im covering my snap in orange and green tape when im done, so I dont think that will be a problem. And lastly the washer that was suggested, it fits in quite nicely with a bit of lube.

[Ryan201821]

ABS is weaker than PVC, and can shatter. Probably okay, though.

ABS as a material is not weaker than PVC, but stronger. Now, ABS pipe vs PVC pipe, PVC is stronger. ABS pipe isn't solid ABS, and will have a thin foam core in between the ABS walls. If you look on the ABS pipe, you can usually see the word "foam" displayed. This is generally why ABS is cheaper, more flexible, and lighter. As far as using it instead of PVC, it doesn't make much of a difference for a SNAP. ABS pipe will be bend a lot more before breaking, but fail quite dramatically and abruptly. PVC pipe is more rigid, better in the cold, and is also easier to machine.

So really, just use PVC.

[Darksircam]

If you're drilling a hole through wooden clothespins, go slowly and don't apply too much pressure, especially if it's the really cheap kind. Cheap wood has a tendency to split, and wood overall seems harder to drill through than plastic.

If you have to choose between two kinds of clothespins, pick the weaker one. It'll still catch fine because the PVC holds the nail in place, not the spring. And with a weaker spring, you reduce the pressure on the catchface and make priming easier.

A simple way to measure your trigger nail is to cut it to the height of your clothespin + 3/8". The PVC wall is about 1/8", and an 1/8" trigger pin is enough to hold it in place reliably. When smoothing out the nail edges you'll shave off a bit of the extra length, and the remaining extra is a margin for error.

Plunger heads with rubber washers are very good. They double as plunger padding. Just make sure to use the right kind of lubricant - anything like petroleum jelly or plumber's grease (AKA more petroleum jelly) will eat your washers. If there's suspicious black goo when you wipe your washers off, it's bad lube.

Edited by Darksircam, 30 December 2010 - 12:57 AM.

[TantumBull]

Just make sure to use the right kind of lubricant - anything like petroleum jelly or plumber's grease (AKA more petroleum jelly) will eat your washers. If there's suspicious black goo when you wipe your washers off, it's bad lube.

Just wanted to point out that most brands of plumber's grease are completely fine for your seal and are not petroleum jelly, I've actually yet to find one that's bad. Hell, what do you think its applied to in plumbing?

But your point about black slime is a good one - that would be a sign that your seal is degrading.

Edited by TantumBull, 31 December 2010 - 10:57 PM.

[louiec3]

Made that on my lathe. If you think about it it is essentially a cross between the superlative and the preeminent plunger heads.

[Daniel Beaver]

That's super neat.

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but:

Walmart clothespins are the best. Carbon's moral issues with Walmart notwithstanding. They are the most sturdy plastic clothespins I have come across in a regular store.



On another note:

Are we restricting this thread to clothespin catches? That always seemed like a defining characteristic of a SNAP. And while there are all sorts of new-fangled catch designs out there, I think it should be mentioned that the clothespin trigger is a proven design, which new modders should try.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 01 January 2011 - 11:27 AM.

[TantumBull]

Absolutely loving that plunger head, Lou, great job.

And Beaver, I would probably agree with that assumption. I know that when I mistakenly added the rainbow catch because I hadn't read the thread carefully I was quickly corrected that the rainbow wasn't a snap. So yeah, I suppose I would argue that a clothespin trigger defines a snap. Then again, you could also argue that any catch design that doesn't involve cutting polycarb would be valid, that is anything that fit under Carbon's idea of a simple gun that anyone can easily build.

It would be helpful if Carbon gave his opinion on this, as something similar came up earlier in the thread and he made some valid statements.

[Darksircam]

Huh. With those super duper Wal-Mart clothespins, have you had problems with gluing the trigger on? It's a metal bracket, both sides filed lightly.
I've tried GOOP overnight. After four test firings, the trigger breaks off. Then I tried marine epoxy putty after cleaning off both sides with rubbing alcohol. The e-putty just completely peeled off the plastic on the first test. Again, 8 hours to cure.
Should I sand it down even more and goop again? Or is there a problem with my method?

[WicketTheModder619]

I just hot glue it on, and then attach it with 2 4inch zip ties. The hot glue just holds it while I position the zip ties, but even so, the hot glue has never broken off on my snaps.

Edited by WicketTheModder619, 02 January 2011 - 04:52 PM.

[Y-Brik]

My first snap relied on hotglue. That didnt even last a whole war. My next attempt involved zipties, which I recommended for strength, and later I swapped them out for a screw and washer to hold the bracket on with.

[Demon Lord]

Should zip ties and hot glue not work, try JB-WELD. I've used that stuff numerous times on many applications and its held up every time.

[Daniel Beaver]

There's no reason zip ties and hot glue shouldn't work. JB-WELD is great stuff, but is entirely overkill for this application. Besides, I like my SNAP triggers to be removable. They invariably get futsy after awhile.

[TxNerfer]

The only place I find zip tie useage nessecary is tieing the angle iron (or in my case, wooden trigger) to the side of the clothespin not glued to the plunger tube. I have never had the need to use a zip tie to attatch the top part of the clothepin to the pluner tube. Also, beaver is correct about JB weld useage in Snaps.

[Carbon]

It would be helpful if Carbon gave his opinion on this, as something similar came up earlier in the thread and he made some valid statements.

Ooh, philosophical SNAP discussion.

At first, a SNAP was more like a concept than a plan: easy to build with good performance. However, it's been sort of codified into a set mechanical design. If someone says they built a SNAP, there's a pretty good idea of what was made.

That said, I think there are a few elements that mechanically define a SNAP, with the clothespin being the most obvious. However, I would offer that the catch system itself is what more uniquely identifies a SNAP: after all, the clothespin is just the return spring and trigger lever. By the catch system, I mean a pin catch which engages a 360 degree catchface that has a close fit to the plunger tube. This seems to be common to every SNAP, and differentiates it from plate and ring catch systems.

A classic SNAP uses a clothespin, but I think another return spring system would be fine. If the catch itself changes, then I'd say it's probably SNAP-like, but not a SNAP.

Now, philosophy, something I've mentioned before. Beyond physical contruction, there's what I call the SNAP philosophy, the "hacksaw and a drill" approach to building. I think SgNerf's R-series blasters are very SNAP-like this way. It's what I keep repeating: the "S" stands for simplified, and it's why I've always tried to stay away from exotic parts or complex machining. A SNAP should be something that's easy to build, with good performance.

TL;DR: A SNAP is defined by its catch system (of which a clothespin is only a part): a pin-style catch, engaging a 360-degree catchface. Ease of building is the other important factor.

Edited by Carbon, 02 January 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[Langley]

I would say that any blaster that the original designer has termed a SNAP is a SNAP, and there's no point in trying to 'classify' something else as a SNAP. Beyond that, I always thought of a SNAP as having two basic design requirements: the parts are all available locally and the tools required to make one are all probably sitting in your garage or tool box.

There's no reason zip ties and hot glue shouldn't work. JB-WELD is great stuff, but is entirely overkill for this application. Besides, I like my SNAP triggers to be removable. They invariably get futsy after awhile.

I didn't use any glue, but after trying just zip ties I found that the clothespin on my snap would slide around and then the pin wouldn't seat properly. I ended up putting a short sheet metal screw through the clothespin into the pressure tube to keep it stable and that helped quite a bit.

[TantumBull]

But what then about taer's SNAP? Do you think this would then be "SNAP-like" but not a SNAP in itself?

[Carbon]

But what then about taer's SNAP? Do you think this would then be "SNAP-like" but not a SNAP in itself?

Yup. Taer says that himself:

"Lastly, it doesn't use the SNAP line's trigger or plunger assembly, but it's still a Snap in spirit, especially given the Snap-4bp, above."

Honestly, I don't have a problem with someone naming a blaster a SNAP if it follows the spirit of it. The very "open source" idea of the SNAP means that different people are going to have different interpretations of the design. What I was talking about before was inclusion in this thread, where we're talking about what has commonly come to be accepted as a SNAP. Anyway, there are always exceptions to every rule....especially seeing as how Taer's is a variant on the form factor of the 4.

Edited by Carbon, 03 January 2011 - 07:22 PM.

[NerfGeek416]

New plunger head:



From left to right:
CPVC endcap
Belleville washer
1 1/4 fender washer
2 nuts as a spacer
1 1/4 fender washer
1 1/2 rubber washer
finishing washer
wing nut

This has a metal catchface, AND a metal ramp
WIN

[TantumBull]

That angle looks a little steep, have you tested out this design yet? How hard was it to engage the catch?

[NerfGeek416]

It was about the same as an unsanded curved endcap. As long as you grind your nail smooth it works fine.

[Carbon]

Metal on metal friction points are usually something to avoid. Let us know how the thing wears.

Edited by Carbon, 14 January 2011 - 08:24 PM.

[NimbleFellow]

I'm going to build a SNAP MK1, and was wondering if i could use a [k26] spring. The spring mentioned in the writeup is an odd one.

[WicketTheModder619]

Instead, I would build a Snap mk.5. It is by far the simplest and cleanest basic snap design, and it will use a [k26] perfectly.

[Daniel Beaver]

...by which you probably mean the Snapbow Mk. V, a design by Rork which is distinct from Carbon's own design (and is Carbon's current Recommended Snap Design). In any case, it doesn't make much sense to build the original SNAP. Newer designs are easier to build and better performers.