123 replies to this topic

[One Man Clan]

I've kept quiet mostly because I've been sick all this week. In fact, I haven't even sent out all the SM500's I sold yet. I finally had a chance tonight between coughing fits and COD4 matches to say something.

The only thing I am gonna say about the rules is this. I see "the rules" we have laid out as more of a general outline. They are universally going to be accepted at "Mag 7" Wars, but that doesn't stop anyone from NOT using them. The thought that this would be how all wars should be run is just ridiculous.

This is where I may deviate from my 6 other brethren. I joined this group because it is really some of the ONLY guys I enjoy nerfing with. 2008 was a spectacular year for wars, but not for nerfers. I easily met 100 new players, I was impressed by maybe 5-7 of them. This is more about a call to get out and learn the other aspects of the game other than modding/building guns that dominate.

There are skills on the field that so many players forget. When the vets try and teach them, few listen, I've seen it first hand. I've been to more wars and traveled more mileage than ANYONE in the NIC so I think I have a fair platform to stand on. All I mean is, forget what guns are "awesome" and make yourself an awesome player. I am more impressed by successful teamwork and tactics than I am by a good shot. I've seen plenty of the latter, from all kinds of players.

[Skitzo]

So, new guys who can only get their hands on lbb/bbbbs will find it too difficult not to plug the pumps? This argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

For the record. Slug's big blast outdistances my +bow consistently, and his pump is unplugged. No one has really explained why not plugging the bbbb/lbb pump is such an inconvenience yet.

Just because Slug's big blast beat your +bow, you ban all plugged guns? Big blasts, although they have the potential to beat a +bow even unplugged, not all of them necessarily do. Why are you limiting what mods and guns patrons to your wars are aloud to use even if they don't unbalance the game? Because its easier and less work for you?

Why wouldn't a range limit work? Is it the time? I mean sure it takes a bit more to organize but it would keep things more fair.
Assuming either what Mag 7 or I have proposed does work, round will be shorter and more even, and more rounds can be played from 10 to 5. The problem I see with the rules Mag 7 has set forth is what is stopping someone from bringing a gun that is unbanned yet is stronger than all of the guns that have escaped the ban?

If there is going to be extra time thanks to shorter rounds why not let everyone use the guns they want as long as they don't get further than x distance?

Skitzo-

[Shadowblade]

I'm gonna toss in my two cents then shutup.

The fact that our dedicated admins and contributors are getting together to pull these wars off for the rest of the nerfing clans/groups deserves to be answered with thunderous applause. Thanks much you guys.

To those complaining about the rules and restrictions, you need to chill. The rules seem fair enough and they are basically extensions of rules that are already in place at many wars. These are only 7 of who knows how many wars. If you plan on attending, it will not kill you to modify your weapon choice and playing style a little for one war. Doomsayers banned? Oh well, choose a different weapon. There are many worthy weapons to use instead. Complaining about xbows? Well, the SNAPbow and +bows will get almost the same results. Make one. Ta-da! Even playing field! And if you don't plan on attending and are just clogging this thread, f*** off.

If you don't like what you see in the rules, get your own war together. Your war, your rules.

Okay, I'm done now. Hopefully, you will see a SE contingent make it to one of these wars. Nerf on!

Sidenote: a well-modified NF and a bit of skill can kill (hey that rhymes), I've learned from experience.

Edited by Shadowblade, 08 January 2009 - 09:20 PM.

[mystefansdontflystraight]

Ok it is obvious that the magnificent 7 want to see awesome NERFERS, not nerf guns. There is a time and place for showing off your awesome mods that can shoot 150ft, but they want this to be about physical skill, not modding skill.
I respect that, and I think that if someone like Death can take on crossbows with a stock LS and a mantaray, it should be an inspiration to all of us. Same goes for garrett, who I hear is fucking ridicuous. I think the mag7 want to see more of that, and less long range pot shots. I think that is why they are trying to keep it to old fashioned, close range nerfy goodness by banning ridiculous guns.

Edited by mystefansdontflystraight, 08 January 2009 - 08:29 PM.

[rork]

At SENO, the great majority of players were using singled BBBBs and LBBs. In those quantities, they definitely have a dampening effect on the game, as no one wants to take a shot from one. There was also a converted water gun that was just plain hazardous. Playing safe does not make for the best nerfing experience. I point this out, not because I want to get rid of BBBBs and LBBs, but because their preponderance illustrates a flaw in many nerfers' game logic: further=better. Not so. Even with all those powerful airguns in play, I did not see a single kill made at more than 60-70'; not saying that it doesn't happen, but that it doesn't happen enough to plan on. In terms of actually hitting stuff, the SNAPbows on the field were just fine, in spite of their shooting 30-40' less than the airguns. As far as I'm concerned, more diversity in weaponry would greatly improve the game, and if the Mag7's rules encourage such diversity, I'm willing to give up a few weapons that may or may not be perfectly serviceable.

Also: Skitzo, no one was allowing PLUGGED BBBBs, etc. in the first place. In fact, I would not attend a war that did allow them, or singled titans, or anything else that is likely to make me bleed, because while pain may be inevitable, it isn't fun.

Edited by rork, 08 January 2009 - 08:47 PM.

[rork]

Of course that's true--in theory. However, let's remember that stefans are slow and inaccurate at the best of times. The difference between a 100' gun at 60' and a 140' gun at 60' is that the further-shooting gun will have an infinitesimal accuracy advantage, and hurt much more. However, all that doesn't really matter, as my point is that too many ultra-long-range guns will slow gameplay, and are not strictly needed.

[Langley]

You know I've been looking forward to this thread for weeks, thinking it would be an awesome opportunity to make my rallying cry, throw down the gauntlet, and kick off an awesome rivalry. But then I read past the first post, and I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed in all of you. Seven of the guys who work the hardest out here on the East Coast to ensure that you fuckers have a good time are pulling together to make 2009 even more awesome than 2008 (and 2008 was a tough act to follow). On top of that they're trying to challenge all of you to follow their example and form a clan of your own and host better wars, but the detail that everyone latches on to is the banned guns. They're trying to make the game more balanced so that everyone can have fun, so that the nerfers who do well are the ones that play the best, not just the ones that mod the best. But all anyone can do is bitch and complain. If you're spending so much time on your nerf guns, not because you enjoy modding for the sake of modding (like Splitlip for example), but because you want to destroy everyone on the field with a game-breaking gun that raises welts from 90 feet away, then you aren't the kind of nerfer I want at my wars.

I was going to come out here and try and recruit some new people into the LGLF, because I thought that expanding an LGLF/Mag7 rivalry into a community thing would be a good way to get people excited about nerfing and push people to get more involved though the spirit of competition and teamwork. But from what I've seen of the people who are opposed to the new clan, I'm not sure I want to be associated with a bunch of whiny bitches. In any case, I'm going to log off now and go shoot some teenagers with plastic guns.

-Phil (Langley)
"Shut up and Nerf"

[Skitzo]

I was using the BBBB as an example, I’ll admit at this point, a bad one, but it doesn’t really matter what the gun is. I’m just afraid that the guns that are being banned aren’t going to solve the problem.

I’m fully supporting what Mag 7 is trying to do in making the game more even, but I don’t think they are going about it in the right way. I mean sure it will work but to what extent.

I feel that the rules that they are proposing have too many loopholes to be considered a complete way to balance the game again. I am merely suggesting an alternative that I and a few others believe would work better.

I don’t give a shit what gun I use, I look forward to being able to play as I did when I first started nerfing (just before everything started becoming about long range). I’m just afraid guns that will keep things unbalanced will go unchecked.

I don’t want to be at APOC or something expecting an older style nerf war, to see guns unbalancing the game just because they weren’t specifically banned.

Now can we get off the thought that people still are arguing to be able to use singled titans and the like, your preaching to the choir at this point.

Skitzo-

[Kuhlschrank]

Ok guys, here is the deal on Apoc:

2/3's of the organizers of Apoc are not Mag 7. These rules are not necessarily going to be the rules for that war. We will discuss those details at a MUCH later date, especially after we get to see how some of the other Mag 7 wars go with these new rules.

As far as some of the air guns go, sit tight on them. These rules were largely constructed with respect to the guns we felt were detrimental to the competitiveness of a war, so it is understandable that some guns could be unfairly banned. Few rules are without exceptions, and expect these to be no different.

We are not trying to alienate people, we just want to ensure that everyone has a good, exciting, and fun time. Personally, I don't feel that sitting 120' away taking potshots at each other is very exciting.

[analogkid]

I am most likely going to be attending APOC again with Chem-Goggles and biofreak2. I hope that when I get my license this year, that will enable me to attend at least 1 other Mag7 venue, provided I can get money and parental permission.

I own a singled titan and a tank expanded, bike pumped AT3k. I used the AT3K as a primary for a while. I used to loan out the singled titan. Do these rules worry me? Absolutely not. The titan no longer comes to clan wars, and the AT3K is the last thing we loan out if we have to loan out blasters. The titan can/has done serious flesh damage. The AT3K is right on the border, it gets LBB/BBBB ranges. I started getting complaints about injuries from the AT3K because when we got into close quarters action, people were getting hurt. It stopped being fun. The vets have enough experience to know how to host a war that will provide the most fun to the most people.

Oh, and accusing the vets of banning the blasters that are banned because they want their X-bows to be the most dominant thing on the field is ridiculous. My +bow gets better ranges, I would bet that Daedalus gets similar to better ranges, and my BBB is probably mostly on part with most X-bows (note use of the word "most"). All are allowed according to my understanding of the rules. There are plenty of blasters that can match up to an X-bow.

That said, the banned blaster list should not be a surprise to anyone that has been here for more than 6 months. The entire community has been slowly shifting away from allowing missle-launching blasters converted to fire micros for quite some time. This is simply the final nail in the coffin, so to speak. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't host your own war, but hosting your own war and actually having people drive to your location, to show up, can be a challenge. I have posted two war threads here, neither of which I had a NIC member attend. No offense intended at anyone, but its time to put down your high power, high muzzle velocity missile launcher conversions and engage in some closer-quarters combat.

Not that the high range, high power blasters aren't technically impressive. They're just too much for the battlefield. Sorry for writing an essay. Best of luck to all of Mag7, I look forward to hopefully nerfing with you all again, and to an amazing year of nerf.

[VACC]

1.) We'll take the OPV issues with the Big Salvo's stock pump into consideration.

2.) We currently have no intention of measureing ranges or testing guns on a case by case basis. Again, we've listened to the argument, but we don't agree. I can't guarantee that there won't be any gun checks at Apoc, but I wouldn't depend upon it. I understand that you are concerned about people finding loopholes and workign around the spirit of the rules, but I don't think we need be too worried about that. If someone is using something that is against the spirit of the rules we will tell them to put it away. These rules, as Tyler explained, are not concrete. They will take fine tuning and we will be doing that on an ongoing basis.

I DO like the way someone refered to attending nerfers as patrons, though, because, while I don't think they meant it this way, it brings up a good point. We have no patrons because we're not doing this for profit or personal satisfaction. We want to throw some kick ass wars where a lot of nerfers can have a damn fine time. So, if anyone thinks, even for a moment, that we are trying to screw them with these restrictions, they should stop and examine their lives. They may be stupid.

Anyway, since as far as I can tell no one quit nerf after reading our announcement, I'm going to assume we have not killed the hobby by hosting a few new wars. Shocker!

So, does anyone have any questions about the actual nerf wars we'll be hosting? That is a MUCH more interesting topic as far as I'm concerned. I'll even let slip some info on the DDT war mentioned in the OP if it gets us through the "end-times".

[Skitzo]

I'm assuming DDT doesn't stand for Dichloro-Diphenyl-Trichloroethane?

Skitzo-

[Arconious]

Seriously, quit whining about guns. I've never used the exact same primary/Secondary setup, hardly ever kept a primary for longer than a war and a half. Whats the point of expanding your arsenal and modding new guns if you just keep going back to the same overpowered monstrosities every single war. Sure, I can see modding for modding sake, but it still goes back to the main point. Why did you get into modding? Probably to get a badass gun for a war, and you found it fun. Why get away from your beginnings by only making guns that you'll never actually use without hurting somebody.

I for one am glad that this new clan is trying to make it fun for everybody, not just the people whocomplain that the only gun they are willing to use is banned. That isn't the spirit of nerf that I got into.

Anyway, I'd love to hear about these wars, even though I doubt any of them are close enough for me to show up.

Best wishes to all of the Mag7, and I hope people stop complaining at you by the time you host the first of your wars.

[Rambo]

2.) We currently have no intention of measureing ranges or testing guns on a case by case basis. Again, we've listened to the argument, but we don't agree. I can't guarantee that there won't be any gun checks at Apoc, but I wouldn't depend upon it. I understand that you are concerned about people finding loopholes and workign around the spirit of the rules, but I don't think we need be too worried about that. If someone is using something that is against the spirit of the rules we will tell them to put it away. These rules, as Tyler explained, are not concrete. They will take fine tuning and we will be doing that on an ongoing basis.

I know you don't really want to keep talking about this, but I'm going to throw this out since no one has suggested it in its entirety yet.

People who want to use guns on the ban list ( excluding the Doomsayer since range doesn't seem to be the concern with it ) can show up 15-20 minutes before the war starts. Each person gets two gun testings. Even if there's 50 people that want to test guns, you have 7 members, I assume you can all function as "Field Supervisors" so it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes in most cases. Do as Fenix suggested, set up a marker and have people test fire past the markers. If someone comes late, tough shit, use a gun not on the ban list.

If time consumption isn't your problem with gun test firing, then I guess my idea is pretty useless, but other than that I don't see how it's not reasonable.

I've never used the exact same primary/Secondary setup, hardly ever kept a primary for longer than a war and a half. Whats the point of expanding your arsenal and modding new guns if you just keep going back to the same overpowered monstrosities every single war.

Really? You don't feel that you improve as you use a gun more? Whenever I've used a new gun it's taken me a few wars to get as good as I can with it.

[Arconious]

After I get a new gun I usually spend a week or two messing with it at home. Testing my accuracy, improving it, shooting at my dog, getting in minor firefights with my family and so on. So I'm usually pretty comfortable with it when I get to the war. And since the wars I go to are usually at least 10 hours of nerf, I get a good feeling. Sure I can improve further, but by the next war I have another gun I want to try out.

I still use the other guns quite a bit, especially if the new one isn't up to my satisfaction, but I like to keep switching around.

Maybe another explaination is that the different guns allow me to try entirely different play styles, sometimes I play aggressive on the front lines, sometimes I sit in the back and try to pick people off. I'm sure eventually(in the next couple of wars) I'll start switching back to the combos that I liked, but I still have some things I want to try.

[Langley]

So, does anyone have any questions about the actual nerf wars we'll be hosting? That is a MUCH more interesting topic as far as I'm concerned. I'll even let slip some info on the DDT war mentioned in the OP if it gets us through the "end-times".

I'll bite. What does DDT stand for and what's so special about Ted's war? Also, what's the deal with the other four members' wars?

[TED]

I'll bite. What does DDT stand for and what's so special about Ted's war? Also, what's the deal with the other four members' wars?

I also would like to know what makes Ted's war special.

[One Man Clan]

FUCKING FROZEN POND! That's what. Although, by the time you host one, I doubt that will be an option.

[CrooKeD]

That being said, I'd love to make it to one of these wars and go up against the big dogs. I'll bring a dinky 2k.

That 2k broke my forehead

[Cmdrmack]

I took about 20 minutes today and changed my doomsayer barrels from PETG to crayolas. It was cheap, easy, and completely reversible. I get to keep the ROF and accuracy I like from that platform, lose some of the excessive range that makes it ban-worthy, and actually have more choices of ammunition as crayolas work well with any kind of micros, not just stefans with a perfect fit.

Quit bitching about banned guns and find a way to have fun within the rules.

Having fun is what this hobby is about last I checked.

[Arconious]

Its still a doomsayer, and under the rules all of them are banned.

[VACC]

So, does anyone have any questions about the actual nerf wars we'll be hosting? That is a MUCH more interesting topic as far as I'm concerned. I'll even let slip some info on the DDT war mentioned in the OP if it gets us through the "end-times".

I'll bite. What does DDT stand for and what's so special about Ted's war? Also, what's the deal with the other four members' wars?

The plans for any of these wars aside from march meltdown are still so fluid that further details might not remain 100% acurate for long. DDT stands for the Dominatio of Deal Test-site. It will be a day-long single round. That's all I'll say about it now.

[Falcon]

Jesus tap-dancing christ, an all day scenario game.

Umm...I want.

[analogkid]

Jesus tap-dancing christ, an all day scenario game.

Umm...I want.

Oh, sooo very seconded. I really want to attend this now.

[VACC]

I think at the moment the term doomsayer (as we interpreted it) refers to any modification of the blaster that keeps all 12 barrels. Nothing is set in stone, but that's the spirit of the rules as they stand now.