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#101 Arconious

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:57 PM

Well, if you start with one and mod it down, as he was suggesting, you aren't making an entirely different mod, you are making a weaker version of the full gun. Its still the same type of gun, and therefore should be banned unless you want people to start with trying to get around the titan rules again.


And an entire day round, sounds like everybody is going to go home tired but happy.
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#102 Secret Assassin

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 03:21 PM

Banning guns because they're too good is sad. Guns should only be banned if there is a safety issue.
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#103 BendyStraw

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 05:18 PM

While I am unsure of the Doomsayer's bannability, I don't know why in the world people are whining about their plugged BBBBs and Blast Bazookas.

My BBBB is unplugged and hits 80 with a stefan. I don't even use stefans at most of the college wars I go to. No one likes getting welts.
Some of the other solutions posted in this thread have often been tried by myself and others in nerf and paintball alike.
Asking people to barrel tap under 30 feet doesn't work. People WILL get excited and fire their blaster when they should have barrel tapped. Just expecting everyone to follow some arbitrary rule based on a subjective visual measurement of distance at all times is not very realistic.
Asking people to test fire their own blaster before play results in people fudging it so that it looks weaker than it is.
I think banning the plugged versions of these blasters is not only perfectly reasonable, but a great way to get people playing without risking them getting hurt. Welts are NOT fun, and just because you are the one giving them and not taking them doesn't make it any better.

I'll do my best to come to one of these.
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#104 Skitzo

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 05:28 PM

Banning guns because they're too good is sad. Guns should only be banned if there is a safety issue.

There is always a safety issue when launching projectiles at living things. I'm sure they have concern for our safety but what Mag7 seems to be more worried about, is balancing the game and bringing it back to its roots by eliminating high powered guns and mods that are "too good".

What constitutes "too good" we have already established is completely up to them and not really up for debate any longer. Which is completely acceptable, it is after all their venue and the Mag7 most likely has more nerf war experience than just about the whole NIC combine. You would think they would know what is going on. What I was suggesting earlier was just that, a suggestion. Sure it might work, but Mag7 has already made their decision.


A bit more on topic:

It will be a day-long single round.

Am I going to have to buy a Camelbak or would I be better off with intravenous hydration?
This summer looks like its going to be even more kick ass than the last. Does anyone have a fast forward button?

Skitzo-

Edited by Skitzo, 10 January 2009 - 05:39 PM.

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#105 VACC

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:25 PM

Yeah, a Camelback would likely be a very good idea, and I'll add it to the list of must-haves that we will compile for that war.
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#106 k9turrent

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:33 PM

Its still a doomsayer, and under the rules all of them are banned.


Well I just fought with and against the Doomsayer. It's fast, accurate, and the 12 barrels kick some booty, but it can be beat:

1. FA_24, is a human (believe it or not) he is unable to hit with perfect accuracy every time.

2. It's still a split second in between shots, plus his accuracy, maybe not the best gun for rushing a large group.

3. Different guns are close to the Doomsayer's abilities.

(As in, wait for my mod that may equal that gun)
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QUOTE View Post

That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


HOLY CRAP!

FU ALL

#107 Arconious

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:52 PM

That isn't the point of the ban if I'm understanding things correctly. The Mag7 are trying to level the playing field so those without amazing modding abilites have as good of a chance as others. It drops down to pure skill combat, which is much more fun.

It doesn't matter that it can be beaten, somebody using a modern machine gun can be beaten by somebody with a musket. The point is that it requires the player taking on the gun to have enough skill not to be hit by the darts, while they are trying to close in enough distance to nail the person with their gun, while their opponet has enough darts to knock a hit off of most of the enemy team. It shifts the playing feild, alot.

Not saying they will win most of the time, but on a game relying on skill, its like bringing a pistol to a knife fight.

Wait, why the hell was that statement directed at me anyway. The only thing that happened was I pointed out to somebody that their slight reduction in power probably isn't enough to knock that gun out of the doomsayer department, so it will probably be banned. I honestly don't care if they are banned or not, I won't be able to attend.
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#108 Applefury

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:16 PM

The doomsayer does not make him and his team glow and become invincible. It takes me 2-3 seconds to flip the breech and reload the PAS I then load a stefan into the other side of the breech. In one swift 4 second motion I reload and ready to outrange a doomsayer whereas it takes him 1-2 seconds to re-prime the doomsayer.


If you are trying to balance the game more and make it closer and more dodging, might as well just have stock battles. We mod our guns to make them better.

Doomsayers are still wielded exclusively by humans, which last time I checked can only aim and focus at one target at once. He can't knockff a whole team simultaneously, or close to that for that matter.

My 2 cents, the doomsayer is beaten using these skills you keep mentioning.

Edited by Applefury, 10 January 2009 - 08:19 PM.

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QUOTE(Gamefreak @ Sep 29 2008, 07:03 PM) View Post

Since you're too young to get a hotel, you should look around, maybe check some aim chatrooms.
Theres alot of really friendly, nice people out there, that'd be more than willing to accomodate a young boy.

#109 Drew is nerfing

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:35 PM

I fail to see why the doomsayer is banned. An angel breeched longshot has the same range and the same if not better rate of fire as a doomsayer, and yet they are allowed at most if not all wars. If you only add 1 spring, a doomsayer gets ranges of around 80 feet flat. I don't think that is unreasonable at all. A doomsayer with just a stock spring probably gets no better than 50 feet. I think that less hard hitting doomsayers should NOT be banned. If you are gonna ban the doomsayer, you might as well ban every other great gun out there. What's the point in having a great nerf gun if you guys are just gonna ban them?

Banning guns because they're too good is sad. Guns should only be banned if there is a safety issue.


I agree. The reason that titans are banned is because they can make you bleed! And if you are shot in the eye with a stefan from a titan, you are probably fucked. I can understand that, but a banning a gun like the doomsayer just because it is "too good" is in my opinion bullshit. If you think that having doomsayers at wars will make things "unfair" or something, then go buy a doomsayer yourself, and then you will be on level ground.

Edited by Drew is nerfing, 10 January 2009 - 10:42 PM.

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#110 VACC

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:31 PM

Seriously? You people are still whining about this? First, the assumption that we've banned doomsayers because we feel FA is too good with it is flawed simply not accurate. It's simply not the case. Second, the idea that a breached LS is in anyway comparable is simultaneously hilarious and absurd. Please attend a nerf war before telling us how we should host ours.

Look, you're simply not talking us out of that right now, so deal with it. We'd like to move on and let this thread actually become somewhat useful instead of an outlet for those who have no intention of attending these wars to bemoan the death of the hobby. If anyone feels they can't comply with that request I'll simply remove them from the equation for a while.
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#111 imaseoulman

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:36 PM

So I see that VACC is currently writing a response. I hope it says that the banning of the Doomsayer is not up for discussion because I'm sick of listening to you all whine like little girls. Seriously, you're all saying the same thing over and over again and not contributing. As is always the case, if you have nothing significant to add, keep quiet. I try to live by that model and it's served me pretty well.

It has been hinted at that the Big Salvo will receive further consideration. So if you have strong feelings for banning it or allowing it and REASONS for it (other than "It should be" or "I like it"), please share.

If you have nothing significant to add, I ask you to kindly shut up.

Just to clarify, homemade springers weren't on the ban list...so snaps and the like are kosher?
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#112 badger

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:04 AM

Banning guns because they're too good is sad. Guns should only be banned if there is a safety issue.

I have to add this as you don't seem to have gone toe-to-toe with a Doomsayer. I got shot by Forsaken's at 10 feet as he got a bit excited as I was mowing him down with a PowerClip.

It left a dent in my fuckin' wrist for over a week! A dent! If it can leave a physical deformity in my body at that close a range, then the issue isn't that it is too good a mod, but that it is indeed a safety issue.

The Mag 7 have their reasons. Everyone is arguing over the fact that their favorite blasters, the ones that they took so long to modify (seriously, how long does it take and how hard is it, when modding either a BBBB or a LBB, to plug the OPR valve, cut off the barrel and glue on a PVC coupler?), are banned. Myself and others have stated this already, but the mod does not make the player, but the exact opposite. If it was the mod tha made the better player, why don't those with some of the best blasters in the sport win all the time? They don't.

Can we now please discuss more of what is to come in 2009 from the Magnificent 7 and not cry over not being allowed to use your easily modded BBBB or your "took me forever" Doomsayers? I want to hear about what is to come this year.

Edited by badger, 11 January 2009 - 12:05 AM.

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#113 Garrett76z

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:29 AM

Doesnt matter much to me what guns are allowed at this point but I find it funny that people keep using the phrase "serious injury". HAHA, seriously? Time to sack up boys, welts aint the end of the world. I've been shot from close range so many times from powerful guns, I cant even count. I shot this kid from about 12 feet with a highly modded at2k. . . in the lip. It busted open and bled immediately. Thats about the worst I've ever seen and guess what? He came back. I understand that a little pain makes you not wanna get shot . . . and thats a bad thing? Just asking for a reality check. . .
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#114 Forsaken angel24

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:36 AM

I heart Garrett.


Badger the dent only happened because you are old and fragile. Hands like prunes you have. Of course they would have a dent. Like a ball bearing dropped into mashed potatoes.
Seriously though, My gun is no stronger than any X-bow,PAS or any gun that hits 105'.


I am excited and curious about the new venues and game styles.
I look forward to hearing about them.

Edited by Forsaken_angel24, 11 January 2009 - 12:40 AM.

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#115 DX-Robert

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:48 AM

Personally, I'd rather hear about the new game types as opposed to whining about the banned guns. After all, what if you get a gun unbanned only to find out that it's horribly ill-suited for the new rounds? What's a titan going to do against a zombie horde? And what if new venues are chosen this year where really high range guns aren't a wise selection? I feel it is a waste of time to argue over banned guns. As many have said, stats are just stats, the human element is what makes Nerf interesting. Not only that, but any skilled nerfer should be able to find just as much success and have just as much fun, if not more, with a standard gun. After all, I believe that the ultimate goal of nerf is to have fun and for everyone attending to have fun, that includes the poor sod you're nailing from 120ft.

Anyway, I'd love to see some details on these new rounds, unless the info is to be withheld to make us salivate over the possibilities...

EDIT: I wouldn't joke too much about injury. You weren't there when Nibordude took a crossbow shot directly to the eye at one of the BCNOs a few years ago. That incident is the one that made people across the country take eye protection seriously, as that eye is now permanently damaged. However, that was a standard gun, I wouldn't worry about titans and the such when an ordinary crossbow can do that.

Edited by DX, 11 January 2009 - 12:53 AM.

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#116 Garrett76z

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:35 AM

EDIT: I wouldn't joke too much about injury. You weren't there when Nibordude took a crossbow shot directly to the eye at one of the BCNOs a few years ago. That incident is the one that made people across the country take eye protection seriously, as that eye is now permanently damaged.


Actually I started mandating eye protection after my best man got shot in the eye the night before my wedding in 2003. His eye was all bloodshot for my wedding pics. . .
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#117 Rambo

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 02:48 AM

Second, the idea that a breached LS is in anyway comparable is simultaneously hilarious and absurd.

Absurd?

Ranges are typical.
99'
100'
102'
100'
101'
102'

I did this range test at night and it was freezing outside. On a normal sunny spring/summer/fall day I am sure the ranges would be at least 10-12 feet farther. I tried putting in a stronger spring but the gun was awkward to cock and the glue broke after four shots. This is something I will be working on improving after doing Captain slugs shotgun grip mod

Stats:
This puppy can shoot on average 115 feet.
Is very accurate.
Can fire 12 rounds in 12 seconds or less.
Is rear loading.
Auto advancing.

With a double clip and a shotgun grip it seems like Angel's LS is pretty much the same as the Doomsayer, unless I'm missing something, which wouldn't be unreasonable since I've never warred against a well-modded Longshot.


If everyone calms down and wants to discuss this in a logical manner I think we can have a dialogue, but it's just not productive for us to respond to irrational panic.

We can discuss this in a rational manner, but I, for one, am not going to sit here and read 3 pages of panicked indignation.

Seriously? You people are still whining about this?

Maybe the reason people are still whining about it is because you haven't fully addressed it yet? You've said no to a few questions about specific issues, but you have neglected some of the bigger questions. Some of us are waiting, patiently.

My biggest concern is that stock guns have been improving recently, but you seem unwilling to adapt to the new technology. If a new stock gun is released and someone turns it into a monster, you guys are just going to ban it when the person cleans up with the gun, so why bother?

Edited by Rambo, 11 January 2009 - 02:49 AM.

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#118 CrazyIvan VI

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 03:37 AM

Rambo. He has addressed it. It's been made very clear that they're banned from the Mag 7 wars. I mean hell, Forsaken doesn't have a problem with it, so just drop it. Just take it to PM if it really bothers you that much.
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I get all giddy when I see VACC browsing a stupid topic. I just know someone is going to get banned.

#119 Rambo

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:12 AM

Rambo. He has addressed it. It's been made very clear that they're banned from the Mag 7 wars. I mean hell, Forsaken doesn't have a problem with it, so just drop it. Just take it to PM if it really bothers you that much.

What are you talking about? The subject of the bulk of my post had nothing to do with a specific gun. Sure, that thought might be inspired by the banning of the Doomsayer, but it's not what I'm talking about. I'd also like to how you're under the impression that Forsaken doesn't have a problem with it. His post made him sound somewhat disappointed and in agreement with my sentiments.

Edited by Rambo, 11 January 2009 - 04:12 AM.

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#120 BustaNinja

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:58 AM

I heart Garrett.


Badger the dent only happened because you are old and fragile. Hands like prunes you have. Of course they would have a dent. Like a ball bearing dropped into mashed potatoes.
Seriously though, My gun is no stronger than any X-bow,PAS or any gun that hits 105'.


I am excited and curious about the new venues and game styles.
I look forward to hearing about them.

Honestly, with the size of the plunger tube and the fact that no matter how well you seal a turret it will leak, I (even though I have never seen it) would even go as far as to say its even less powerful then a Crossbow, PAS or anything else.

And to address Rambo: You do have a point. With ranges like that out of an Angel breached Longshot, it is surely comparable.

Maybe its all about the ability to fire those 12 long range accurate shots quickly? And therefore it makes it unfair? Well if you think about it from a tactical standpoint it just means you have a priority target. Instead of using your long range people to stand back and pretty much lose the round for you when someone inevitably rushes them, have them focus on big threats. Having high quality guns like that almost FORCES you to think tactically. Could this be why they are banned? Because Nerf isn't a Milsim, and there for your tactics should be "Run and hit stuff"?

I don't know, just my two cents.

Oh, and does anyone else hum the Magnificent 7 theme in their head every time they see this thread? or am I the only one?
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#121 Rambo

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:12 AM

Maybe its all about the ability to fire those 12 long range accurate shots quickly? And therefore it makes it unfair? Well if you think about it from a tactical standpoint it just means you have a priority target. Instead of using your long range people to stand back and pretty much lose the round for you when someone inevitably rushes them, have them focus on big threats. Having high quality guns like that almost FORCES you to think tactically. Could this be why they are banned? Because Nerf isn't a Milsim, and there for your tactics should be "Run and hit stuff"?


Maybe I'm not making my point clear.

I don't care about Doomsayers. I care about the fact that the "technology" of nerf is growing and that we, as a community, should be able to grow with it.
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#122 TED

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:05 PM

Maybe I'm not making my point clear.

I don't care about Doomsayers. I care about the fact that the "technology" of nerf is growing and that we, as a community, should be able to grow with it.


Maybe no one gives a shit about your point so you need to just shut the fuck up.
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#123 Lynx

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:36 PM

I managed to wade through 50 posts before I came to the conclusion:

It's not about the nerf gun, the skill or who is playing.

It's about NERFING. The fun had while shooting plastic toy guns at each other. No bruises, no standoffs, no bullshit. That is all that was wanted by the Meh 7. Just man up and shoot the yellow dart at your best friend's eye!

EDIT: The rules are this: We (Meh 7) won't let anything (Nerf gun) get in the way of Nerfing.

Edited by Lynx, 11 January 2009 - 12:37 PM.

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#124 VACC

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:47 PM

Alright, I think this thread has run it's course. I want to say that I'm disappointed by the reaction of some members, but it doesn't really matter. We didn't expect celebration or adulation as so many seem to have assumed, but we never imagined so many would have so little perspective. We're talking about Nerf wars, calm the fuck down.
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