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#51 Pineapple

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:36 PM

I'll be honest, we didn't expect this to be such a big deal. Most of the guns on our list have been banned at wars in the past, and this only represents a small portion of the nerf wars that will be held this year. It's not like if we ask you to put down one of your guns at our war that you're never going to use it again

Look, nothing's set in stone, but if we think something either makes the wars less fun or represents a hazard at close range, we're going to ask people to use something else.

Everyone just take a deep breath and relax.

If everyone calms down and wants to discuss this in a logical manner I think we can have a dialogue, but it's just not productive for us to respond to irrational panic.


Wow. Everyone's trippin' about your clan setting some pretty sound and solid ground rules for a good and balanced Nerf war.

You guys have some serious influence to get a bunch of the Nerfers all riled up like that. I guess you ought to let everyone let out some steam and frustration on the forum, then when the time comes for your first war with these implementations in place, show them the WHY behind it.

I'd normally wonder out loud why there are so many restrictions on weapon selection, but this past Christmas we had our annual family/neighborhood Nerf war. The ONLY modified weapons were NiteFinders. The DartTag blasters, Eliminators, and Mavericks out were all STOCK. It was a blast, and more so because it became more of a test of newly-acquired skills (remember that some of these don't Nerf but at Christmas time), rather than a stay-hidden-unless-you-want-to-get-shot kind of standoff that would get boring really quick.

Rather than whine and kick and stomp about it, were I to be able to attend one of those MAG-7 wars, I'd hit the workbench and come up with something that would be within those parameters, and still be badass as can be. I actually think that would be a more enjoyable challenge than just trying to make "biggest, most, farthest". It's something I wrote about in an article a while back.


Good to see new ideas, especially the kind that shake everyone up. Good luck!


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<!--quoteo(post=209846:date=Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM:name=boom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(boom @ Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It's to bad you live in hawaii I bet there are not many wars there.Wait what am I saying<b> you live in hawaii you lucky bastard.</b>
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#52 Rambo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:46 PM

I plan on hosting a few wars (albeit mostly private).

Small wars where you will most likely adopt the same rules set forth by the Mag7, for the most part, I assume.

You, Rambo have hosted in the past successfully.

I've had more unsuccessful attempts than successful ones. Plus, my venue has been closed due to paintballers attacking pedestrians.

Ice plans on having bi-monthly wars.

I haven't attended any, so I might just be misinformed, and no offense to Ice here, but from what I've of his venue is an open field with a picnic table and a couple basketball hoops.

FA has his 2+ wars a year.

Not exactly cheap to travel to Canada multiple times.

The Mass. group has some stuff going on up there.

I haven't really paid much attention to MA wars in awhile, but they seem to be less successful than my past few ECNO attempts.


You guys have some serious influence to get a bunch of the Nerfers all riled up like that. I guess you ought to let everyone let out some steam and frustration on the forum, then when the time comes for your first war with these implementations in place, show them the WHY behind it.

Look, I've been to wars before Doomsayers were around and since. When they've been allowed, I didn't want to be on the other team, but even if I was I didn't feel that the teams were unfair or that that person ( Forsaken, generally ) was in a position of great advantage. Granted, he generally has more kills than anybody, but he did the same with the PAS. If you're really uncomfortable with the weaponry that our Contributors use in a war, make your own. There are write ups that detail how to modify all the blasters that have been banned.

I'd normally wonder out loud why there are so many restrictions on weapon selection, but this past Christmas we had our annual family/neighborhood Nerf war. The ONLY modified weapons were NiteFinders. The DartTag blasters, Eliminators, and Mavericks out were all STOCK. It was a blast, and more so because it became more of a test of newly-acquired skills (remember that some of these don't Nerf but at Christmas time), rather than a stay-hidden-unless-you-want-to-get-shot kind of standoff that would get boring really quick.

Stay-hidden-unless-you-want-to-get-shot? At Massacre Forsaken was the second most active player, using his Doomsayer exclusively. Garrett was the only one more active, but he's just a crazy motherfucker. Bottom line, having a dominant gun from range does not mean you're going to take advantage of it.

Rather than whine and kick and stomp about it, were I to be able to attend one of those MAG-7 wars, I'd hit the workbench and come up with something that would be within those parameters, and still be badass as can be. I actually think that would be a more enjoyable challenge than just trying to make "biggest, most, farthest". It's something I wrote about in an article a while back.

Hit the workbench and come up with something that is as badass as it can be... until the Mag7 determines that it overpowers their crossbows too much.

Edited by Rambo, 11 January 2009 - 02:40 AM.

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#53 sputnik

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:52 PM

Fuck. Just as I finish my DoomSayer, it gets a blanket ban. Why bother working on crazy shit of it'll just get banned in the future?

I disagree, and the SATX (San Angelo TeXas) nerf clan disagrees. So cancel the road trip to Apoc, we're out.

Oh, jeez, you're right. Why work on anything if someone on the East Coast is going to ban it?! Shit, we should just quit Nerf altogether. This is clearly the end of the motherfucking world. Do me a favor, take a deep breath, and get some of that sand out of your vagina.


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#54 Talio

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 01:16 PM

I have some very good advice for the people who have a problem with our rule list. Host your own wars. Seriously. One of the reasons I joined this clan was to inspire all of you to do the same thing. To take us on. To beat us at our own game. We need more wars hosted. We need more leaders to step up and help the sport grow. Take these next words very, very seriously. They come from the mouth of my good friend and the god father of nerf. Nerf on or fuck off. Each and every one of you harboring ill feelings about our rules should take some time and really think about what those words mean.

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#55 NerfDude1138

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 01:36 PM

Just a little clarification please, the list included homemade air guns, so homemade spring guns are ok? The Plus Bow for example is cool right?
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#56 Skitzo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 01:39 PM

So whats going on here, are we going to have a civil discussion about the rules or are we going to ďfuck offĒ? Your group is saying two different things.

It would make much more sense to ban individual guns based upon range. Pick a distance and any gun that shoots further than that wonít be allowed. Not all guns of the same type have the same range. It doesnít take that much time to do a range check. Just because an LBB has the potential to reach 100+ doesnít mean all of them do.

At this time however I have no suggestions on how to balance guns that could be deemed "too good" in terms other than range. Ex.Doomsayer

Iím still going to go to your wars regardless, its just makes more sense to me to do things a little different from how you guys have proposed.

There should be a way to make just about everyone in this situation happy.

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#57 rork

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:05 PM

EXACTLY. We're talking about 7 wars out of...how many? Remember how the 2008 War Sched. was just war after war, month after month, all across the country (ies)? Just because the Mag7 are community leaders doesn't make their rules binding on any wars you decide to host. On the other hand, the bulk of the new rules seem reasonable.

My thoughts: banning Doomsayers makes sense, particularly for smaller wars, and especially now that more people have them. Any time you've got as many rounds in your gun as there are other players, fairness is questionable. Banning Big/Marvelous Salvos just because they fit under "shoots arrows" smacks of bureaucracy, rather than safety/fairness. However, they're not explicitly out yet, and I don't really see that happening in the real world.

Edited by rork, 08 January 2009 - 02:06 PM.

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#58 Galaxy613

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:14 PM

...Banning Big/Marvelous Salvos just because they fit under "shoots arrows" smacks of bureaucracy, rather than safety/fairness...


Erm. Where are people getting that Big Salvos are banned? The only thing I see that could connect it is:

Guns with plugged pumps that were designed to shoot anything larger than a mega dart. (LBB/BBBB, Signal Launchers, etc.)


And that ONLY applies if you plug the pump. You could easily use a unplugged AT2k pump for a Marvelous salvo and have it legal.
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#59 mystefansdontflystraight

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:18 PM

I agree with some of the bans. Scatter titans can be just as deadly as singled ones. My scatter titan has a triple shot attachment, and with a plugged pump and 15 pumps (and a PERFECT seal) it can shoot 95ft. They are not deadly like singled ones as that they can break skin, but dodging something like that at 50ft is nearly impossible.
I don't have a personal problem with the doomsayer being banned as I do not own one, but on the other hand, I didn't really have a problem with the THREE we had in play at HbH2. Sure I was a little intimidated, but I still managed to get plenty of hits on Fa_24 and Cardiac Kid, and oodalumps. I did not find they unbalanced the play, at one point I believe we had 2 doomsayers on one team, and the other team won.
It is the magnificent 7's war, and if they want to ban it, thats fine. I would not care if they banned crossbows, NFs and AT2Ks (my current working arsenal) as long as I could be at a war that was on the kind of scale that these ones are going to be.
My only major beef with this would be the big salvo: 85ft, whats wrong with that?

Edited by mystefansdontflystraight, 08 January 2009 - 02:19 PM.

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#60 imaseoulman

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:27 PM

Case by case basis gun banning simply does not work for large scale wars. Even at smaller ways there are too many ways to 'fudge' the results of an air-powered blaster that it would become difficult and time-consuming to test the blasters individually.

I wish Big Salvos weren't banned, but I can just leave the pump unplugged and continue on.

Personally, I am taking this as a challenge, well two challenges actually.

A few months ago VACC posted this:

But part of that is just because I'm me. In our first round of team slayer (3/15) it was 4 vs. 4 and I fired 12 shots, nine hit their target. I got nine of the twelve "kills" with a 75% hit rate. Man, I love my SM1500!


I don't want to derail this topic, but it sounds like the people you nerf with are terrible. At the proper range, everybody misses, and unless you can shoot accurately in opposite directions simultaneously, numbers should, more often than not, prevail.

Domination is entertaining, but competition is much more exciting. Too bad your all the way out there in SLC.

I would love to show up with a 'classic' NERF blaster (not one of my bastardized integrations) like a SM1500 and prove that I hit what I shoot at. I sincerely hope that I can make it to some of the Summer wars, but I'm not yet sure if it will be possible.

The second challenge is to create something that wouldn't be banned. I've had a design in my head for quite sometime that I've wanted to make. Technically it doesn't violate any of the rules, but we'll see how it all turns out after I make it. I have a second very creative design that if works will likely become my primary (think very high ROF, mid-range pistol).

I'm excited to see what develops over the next several months as we weed out those who share a passion for the sport of NERF and those who don't (just the tinkerers). There have been a lot of comments about how this will prevent creative modding; well the sport isn't about modding. It's about NERFing. I hope to cement my name as a NERFer and not just a modder.
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#61 VACC

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:00 PM

So whats going on here, are we going to have a civil discussion about the rules or are we going to “fuck off”? Your group is saying two different things.


We are willing to have a discussion regarding weapons that people feel should be allowed, but we are NOT going to negotiate. In other words, if there is something that really convinces us that we were mistaken or that we need to reword our rules, we'll certainly take that into consideration, but we're not taking a poll and we're not going to respond to the kind of hand wringing that was going on here.

For instance, I am not overly familiar with the Big Salvo, and am curious as to why people believe that not allowing a pump plugged version kills the gun altogether? I'm similarly confused as to why the LBB/BBBB, which shoots further than any crossbow I've ever used withOUT a plugged pump, is suddenly unusable under our rules.

We want to throw wars that will be the most fun possible. The idea that we're trying to make our weapons the best legal guns is not only patently stupid, it's fucking insulting. Of course we don't want people to have difficulty in finding a legal primary or in bringing their favorite guns to our wars, we just want to keep things on an easily enforced and relatively balanced playing field. That is our goal, and that is what we will be trying to achieve as the year goes on.
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#62 imaseoulman

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:19 PM

Okay, I may be the person most familiar with the Big Salvo on the forum. I've modded dozens and integrated many and I'm very familiar with their inner workings.

There is one word that I can use to describe Big Salvos:
INCONSISTENT

I'm not just referring to the blast tanks, though I'd say about 10% of them are lemons (based on a very large sample size) and are just waiting to die on you. Those that aren't lemons will sometimes require 'fast pumping.'

But the issue here is the pump and when the OPV kicks in. When I first noticed the difference in the number of pumps required to cause the OPV to kick in, I thought it had to do with the pump's seal (which isn't the greatest) and that the OPV's were kicking in at about the same pressure, just a different number of pumps (the number of pumps required before the OPV kicks in ranges from as low as ten to as high as thirty). While some of the difference in number of pumps required can be attributed to differences in pump seals (and therefore air output per pump) the major factor is inconsistency in the OPV itself.

Some Big Salvos come with OPV's that won't kick in until a MUCH higher pressure than others. If we enforce the unplugged pump rule, then as long as you get one with a high pressure tolerance, you're fine. You'll get decent ranges (around 90'). If you get one that kicks in at a lower pressure, you're only going to get about 70' out of it. Not bad for secondary, but somebody 60' away could easily dodge the entire scatter. I'm talking from experience here, not just speculation. I had a weaker Big Salvo burst fired at me from about 50' and the guys aim was a little off so the scatter came at about hip level and I was able to do a spread eagle jump (being a cheerleader in high school has paid off a few times) and dodge the entire burst.

Why is this important to the discussion? Plugging the Big Salvo pump eliminates the inconsistencies caused by varying OPV strength and still does not yield an overly powered blaster. They don't shoot as hard as SM1500's or well-modded AT2K's.

I agree with banning all titans and plugged 4B's and LBB's and even unplugged they still might be too powerful. There's an inherent amount of pain involved with NERFing, but after a certain point, it stops being fun. I don't think Big Salvos cross that line.
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#63 Skitzo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:46 PM

I don’t understand why you would ban a blaster based upon potential, sure a plugged LBB has the potential to reach over 100 feet but they don’t have to. The one I’ve been using has slowly lost strength to the point where even plugged it doesn’t hit above 85’. I honestly don’t know the range of an average crossbow but isn't it somewhere in the 80 range?

What I'm saying is why are we limiting the variety of guns and mods we can use altogether, why not be able to use a plugged BBBB as long as it doesn’t get more than x distance?

And how do you propose to prove that a gun isn't plugged? In the time it takes to pump it until it explodes due to the fact that it is plugged you can easily do a range test.

What about spring guns, the plusbow and PAS singled, while not banned are still stronger than some of the other guns that are banned.

Lets say the reason you are banning X gun is that it reaches 120’, if someone brings a gun that isn't banned but gets over 120’ it will unbalance the game and they with have an unfair advantage because they found a loophole.

I think there should be some kind of system in determining if an individual gun should be banned based upon range, not based upon what they fire stock. And you can't make a generalization about a gun getting a certain range because everyone's guns and mods are going to be different.

The only way I see is having range tests, sure they can be fudged, everything in nerf can be fudged, I’ve seen people take 4+ hits in a round and still keep playing. In the end it all comes down to the honor system if you know your gun is too powerful, either weaken it a bit or don’t bring it.

Skitzo-

Edited by Skitzo, 08 January 2009 - 03:50 PM.

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#64 imaseoulman

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 03:58 PM

Skitzo, the problem with range tests is that they take up too much NERFing time. Even at small wars it would be a lot of time wasted. At larger wars it would be debilitating to actually test each blaster that a person wanted to use.

IF the rule were no more than 120' (though range isn't the only factor in the ban list) then you could go by the honor system and say, "If it shoots 120', don't bring it." Unfortunately, we all know that range tests are incredibly inconsistent and not everybody follows the honor system perfectly, as you pointed out. There could be a 'challenge clause' to request a test for a certain gun that seems too powerful, but again, that goes in to wasting time.

And I know that this is slightly off topic, but if your LBB or BBBB is only getting 85', you need a new primary. The reload time is far too slow for that range. A NF would be better than a singled pump gun that gets similar ranges. Heck, a singled LS would be better.
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#65 Fenixharth

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:22 PM

I don't understand why range testing would take too long. You just need to set up a Marker of some sort at max range allowed. If you had 5 people at a time test their guns at flat ranges towards the marker all you would need to do is see who shot past it. it takes 20-30 minutes for us to test everyone's airsoft guns at a 200+ person airsoft game and that is with only one testing station I don't see why we can't take 10 minutes before a game starts to test the ranges of any gun that might be at question that day?
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#66 Skitzo

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:34 PM

we just want to keep things on an easily enforced and relatively balanced playing field.

And I know that this is slightly off topic, but if your LBB or BBBB is only getting 85', you need a new primary.


Regardless of what ranges I get, I still kick ass and have fun, my point is banning a gun because of its potential is limiting peoples choice of guns and creating exceptions that could unbalance the game.

Choosing teams is one of the most needlessly time consuming parts of a nerf war especially large ones, most of it spend bullshitting, sure there are other ways of doing it(numbers/random) but that doesn’t always create the most balanced/happy teams.

Why can’t we add a bit more time into making sure everything is more balanced and fair.
If it comes down to someone not wanting to stand there and test each gun, fuck I’ll do it. If you have multiple people testing guns, I don’t think it would take up that much time. And you don’t have to test every gun, only the ones that are most likely to be too strong, LBB, BBBB, PAS. This lets everyone use the gun that they want and keeps the game balanced with only a relatively small amount of time taken. Depending upon the range decided upon, most likely decided by the venue, there will be less stand offs and more traditional nerfing making rounds shorter, allowing more rounds and creating a little extra time to... test guns. Isn't the middle part of that sentence what is desired by banning all these guns?

Sure it will be new, time consuming and different from people just showing up and nerfing, but nerf is changing, thousands of people are joining and new and innovative mods are being used. The rules and setup of wars should change as well. I don’t think outright banning certain guns and certain mods is the right idea, anytime someone finds another gun and mods it to its full potential it will have to be added to the ban list, and the list will keep growing as everyone tries to find a loophole in the rules, its human nature. If you don’t have criteria that applies to all guns (they cannot shoot this far) people will try and get around the bans because the want to use their gun.

“Hey, that penis cannon shoots way too far, this is unfair!” “Well its not banned yet so tough for you.”

Skitzo-

Edited by Skitzo, 08 January 2009 - 04:59 PM.

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#67 TED

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:59 PM

You know this thread's main purpose was not to discuss our rules. It was more to announce the best clan to ever grace the nic. Also to get people excited for 7 high quality wars. I'm sure you all have multiple nerf guns that would be usable at these wars. Also quit being such a bitch about this.
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#68 BustaNinja

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:32 PM

Honestly, VACC and all the other people on this ass-kicking caravan are doing the Nerf community a service. Having overly powerful primaries is just dumb. It makes the game not fun anymore. I mean, when we have tower rounds at MN wars and someone brings their BBBB or Crossbow up into the tower, it makes the game really scary. It no longer becomes storming the tower as much as pot shots to try to get people out without getting severely injured. People who are complaining? Stop. With the huge over powered primaries now a days, its silly not to bad them. I am personally gonna talk to every war host in MN about banning most or those nasty air guns.

In short with less ranting, using those big overpowered guns makes the game un fun. I don't want to worry about bleeding from a toy.
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#69 Falcon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:41 PM

You know this thread's main purpose was not to discuss our rules. It was more to announce the best clan to ever grace the nic. Also to get people excited for 7 high quality wars. I'm sure you all have multiple nerf guns that would be usable at these wars. Also quit being such a bitch about this.

Not to poop on your parade or anything, but a good number of people DO have reason to complain...I mean, with the no-pumps-plugged-on-guns-that-shoot-stock-ammo-larger-than-megas rule, you've debilitated like 60% of the nerf community due to the popularity of Big Salvos, LBBs, Big Blasts, Signal Launchers, and etc. Your largest nerf war on the planet might not quite reach its former glory this year because some nerfers who are used to using now banned guns don't have access to other guns that they could set up for use. 3B's aren't going to be for sale forever, you know...

I'm all for this new move towards organization on your end and whatnot, but I do think the ban list has some parts that are a bit much, mostly the pump gun issue. And heck, we on the WEST coast are supposed to be the sticklers, here, with our homemade gun bans...
If the new system works, great, but I think we're supposed to be encouraging new people to play, rather than making them feel like crap because their favorite gun that they half-assedly modded that doesn't really shoot all that far can't be used because someone else used the same gun to make someone bleed. I'll play by your rules, sure, but I can't vouch for the rest of the community.

Honestly, VACC and all the other people on this ass-kicking caravan are doing the Nerf community a service. Having overly powerful primaries is just dumb. It makes the game not fun anymore. I mean, when we have tower rounds at MN wars and someone brings their BBBB or Crossbow up into the tower, it makes the game really scary. It no longer becomes storming the tower as much as pot shots to try to get people out without getting severely injured. People who are complaining? Stop. With the huge over powered primaries now a days, its silly not to bad them.

There's an ELEVEN YEAR OLD in So Cal who comes to almost every war we host with his dad who has taken an accidental shot to the forehead with a plugged LBB from <10 feet, and kept right on playing like a champ, shooting three people shortly after. I don't like the idea of bleeding either, but I've never seen a nerf dart draw blood, and the only way I can see that happening is poorly made stefan tips that have small contact points, or converting paintball guns.
I've never been a large proponent of using overpowered guns either, but I don't want to keep people from playing, when we're trying to promote growth in the hobby, here.

Edited by Falcon, 08 January 2009 - 05:54 PM.

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#70 VACC

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:11 PM

So, new guys who can only get their hands on lbb/bbbbs will find it too difficult not to plug the pumps? This argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

For the record. Slug's big blast outdistances my +bow consistantly, and his pump is unplugged. No one has really explained why not plugging the bbbb/lbb pump is such an inconvenience yet.
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#71 Falcon

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:14 PM

So, new guys who can only get their hands on lbb/bbbbs will find it too difficult not to plug the pumps? This argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. No one has really explained why not plugging the bbbb/lbb pump is such an inconvenience yet.

There, you have me. I'll concede the point. Somehow, I feel like I completely glazed over the pump plugging bit.
Bags' group makes a habit out of replacing LBB pumps with Ball Pumps for an economy of pumps rather than taking forever to prime them again, so there may be an issue there, but we can talk about that when the time comes, and they have backups (those that are traveling out that way with us.)

Edited by Falcon, 08 January 2009 - 06:20 PM.

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#72 Shrub

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:19 PM

They are just remaking the 3B. Look in the thread that has all the store info. The new one is Devil Skin color.
The marker idea is brilliant sorta good idea but I can't believe I didn't of that.
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#73 Garrett76z

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 06:40 PM

I'll throw in my .02 for what its worth. I've been here for along time and have hosted alot of wars in FL and OH. Recently I've been trying to get out to other peoples wars and got up to Massacre a month ago. I know this whole thing is being organized by the veterans and all, which is what confuses me. The more that I've played, the more I realize there is skill to the game. The vets should understand that. I couldnt care less what you bring to one of my wars, I will find a way to beat you. I agree with Rambo. I've been up against Doomsayer at close range in an indoor war . . . yes it was formidable but mostly because of who's hands it was in. Makes the game challenging. I just dont see a need to start banning all kinds of guns cause they are too powerful. You wanna use a big power single shot primary, fine, after you miss me expect to be rushed and if you manage to shoot me in the process I'll wear my welt proudly.

I can understand banning any gun that will keep people from attending your war. Otherwise why ban guns that may keep people from attending? Thats the point right? Get as many involved in the sport as possible.

That being said, I'd love to make it to one of these wars and go up against the big dogs. I'll bring a dinky 2k.
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#74 boisie

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 07:19 PM

I would like to note that even with Doomsayers being allowed, there are what, 10 people, at most, who have made them successfully? I've seen two, and been hit by both of them. The first one, completely functional, happened to hit me from fifty feet, leaving a small sting, but no complaints. The second left a small welt at 10 feet, and I still had no complaints. Doomsayers have no reason to be banned at such a large scale war, as each team will most likely be large enough and smart enough to cause all 120 of those shots to be wasted, and still be able to rush.

That's my reasoning for Doomsayers at least. And I don't have a reason to do it other than it seems fair. I don't own one. As I said, not many do.

The PAS on the other hand (Just kidding. These things are fine.)
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#75 nerfer34

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 07:42 PM

Great. I will be at a few of these wars this year. Sounds fun, I've always been wondering how good at nerfing everyone else is at NH,

I do have a few questions with the bannings. Doesn't a crossbow hands down shoot further than a Big salvo? Why are Big Salvos banned? Also how are maxshots banned if crossbows aren't? I realize what Talio said and everything, but if I can just have an expanation to this that would be great. I'm not complaining after all, you guys take your own time to host it.
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