51 replies to this topic

[CaptainSlug]

Introduction Video Explaining the events of the past 3 weeks (15 minutes)
http://www.dailymoti...s/video/7341208


Okay, so here's a short Timeline that you can read if you don't have 15 minutes to watch the above video.

1. Tom Cruise video gets leaked, Scientology starts randomly suing people to get the video taken down. Tactic works at Youtube temporarily. Video propagates across the internet anyways since the internet as a whole is not too fond of censorship by anyone.
http://gawker.com/50...ied-to-suppress

2. Anonymous gets annoyed, quickly pools its resources

3. Message from Anonymous to Scientology


4. Anonymous Call To Action in reaction to the response Scientology made to previous video. Initial Plan to protest on February 10th.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yr-EaH7IX6E

5. Mark Bunker Responds to Anonymous outlining peaceful protest guidelines
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3A3WnmcRbTQ

6. Anonymous Listens to Mark Bunker and Outlines Rules for Peaceful Protest
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-063clxiB8I

7. Protests take place. An estimated 9,250 people participate in 108 separate locations in 17 countries across the world on February 10th 2008.

http://en.wikinews.o...tests_worldwide

8. Mark Bunker thanks Anonymous on behalf of the victims of Scientology.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yr-EaH7IX6E


Introductory Paragraph
Scientology is responsible for the deaths of at least 7 people (I can't post the links to that information directly because the images are very graphic) and has wrongfully imprisoned at least 24 people since 1976. They have attempted to infiltrate the Federal government and local governments, have and continue to bribe local police and court systems, censor the media, drive lawsuits launched against them into the ground, aggressively litigate and blackmail both critics and their own members, violated human rights, drained the accounts of its member, and the list continues for longer than I care to type.
Further information on all of this is available in the links below.
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net

If you want to speak out against the "Church" of Scientology there are even larger protests scheduled worldwide for March 15th. Check the forums at Enturbulation.org to find one near you.
http://forums.enturb...780323a890ef289
I'm going to help organize the Washington DC Area protest.

The protests of February 10th garnered record media coverage and dwarfed all previous pickets. However it was still completely ignored by the largest media outlets such as CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ABC News, CBS News, The Washington Post, The New York Times, and quite a few others. Local news stations and independent newspapers and website had to take up the slack. The next protest needs to be much larger and is expected to do just that.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 06:49 PM.

[sam]

Fucking Bad Ass. That is all.

[aetherguy881]

I've been hearing about it and trying to conjure up some thoughts about it. But I just haven't gotten the motivation to speak out against it, or for it. I'm sitting in the neutral chair as of now, and prolly for quite some time.

I do know one of the 'higher ups' as he's resided at Theopia for some time.

I guess the more people talk about this, the more I need to learn about it... I guess I'll do that sometime this weekend; When I have time.

I'll try to grab some links to the other protests from him too.

[Eboreg]

I don't really like these developments. What Anonymous was doing is illegal and should be left up to the government. However, I'm glad that they're choosing more legal methods now such as trying to get Congress to revoke the CoS's tax exempt status and protests. However, this turn of events does show that the US should be more aware of organizations like the CoS and that when the Internet Community unites, powerful things happen.

Edited by Eboreg, 14 February 2008 - 11:36 AM.

[aetherguy881]

Well said, it's not like they made a group on facebook and invited everyone they could. Well maybe they did, I dunno, but that would also break them being anonymous...

Basically I feel that they have done a great job with the organizing of the protests and such, and keeping the peace. I applaud them for that.

[sam]

What Anonymous was doing is illegal and should be left up to the government.

Protesting is not illegal. The government is not a "do everything" sort of entity.

[CaptainSlug]

I think the "illegal" thing Eboreg is referring to are the DoS attacks on Scientology websites that were the very beginning of this whole thing. Those stopped fairly quickly as Anonymous as a whole realized such acts were not going to accomplish the main goal. Largely thanks to input from Mark Bunker (a.k.a. WISE BEARD MAN).

Many people fail to realize that Anonymous is a headless monster. It's not an organization because it has no authority structure. Anonymous is the collective whole of the internet itself and that means it encompasses the good, the bad, and the indifferent.
Leadership (in charismatic influence only) can steer Anonymous occasionally, and Anonymous has and does respond to honest criticism. Provided it's done with a spirit of humility. Those that retaliate will only provoke counter retaliation since many of the flailing arms of anonymous follow the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" mode of operation.

Case in point is this poor dope who has made himself a martyr over things he doesn't fully comprehend

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 11:58 AM.

[precisionnerfer]

I despise that cult. Just in case anyone is unclear they are not a church. The avid ones are horrific. I'm not going to say anonymous is perfect, but, they have the right idea. EDIT: about stopping that church. Most of their methods are simplly wrong, but I would rather them prevail then the "Church" of ....

Edited by precisionnerfer, 14 February 2008 - 11:51 AM.

[Carbon]

Anonymous is the collective whole of the internet itself and that means it encompasses the good, the bad, and the indifferent.

(I first saw that image here.)

Thanks for the summary video link....I've been aware of the protests, but haven't been informed on what's actually been going on.

[PvtMcFlurry]

Alright I have a question. Whats the deal with scientology? What is it that people hate? Or do people like it alot? I'm really confused I just want to know the short and simple version without all the technical terms.

[Rambo]

A lot of people are bothered by the belief system. One such example is that they [generally] only let their women give "silent births" which means that the women cannot scream, only make soothing sounds and breathe. They believe that the baby is most impressionable at this early stage of its life.

However, many people fall in love with the religion because of certain things. The church 'saves' a lot of people from undesirable lives and in turn, these people become parishioners.

I'm no expert, so I can't really tell you anything more.

[CaptainSlug]

Although their beliefs are bizarre, their conduct is the central focus of the protests.
Those that are "saved" are also filched of all of their funds, whereas they could have gotten the same kind of counseling for free from dozens of other government or religious services of much higher reputation.

Alright I have a question. Whats the deal with Scientology?

Let's see, how briefly can I put this.

TL;DR Version: The "Church" has committed many crimes and perpetrated many lies against both its own members and the public. Unfortunately it has gotten away with many of them.

That should be enough motivation to get you do your own research and decide for yourself. Please read the "Introductory Paragraph" in the first post.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 03:33 PM.

[laxtk88]

Those that are "saved" are also filched of all of their funds, whereas they could have gotten the same kind of counseling for free from dozens of other government or religious services of much higher reputation.

Like Pastafarianism.

[King Of Butt Land]

Never underestimate the power of a bunch of just-out-of-college misanthropes living in their mom's basements. Especially when they have internet access.

[bobafett109]

I'm sorry I don't know much about Scientology. I was wondering, How did the 7 people die?
As for the whole "anonymous" thing, here's what I think. They have every right, to picket, but I do not think they should have the right to close Scientology websites. The people of Scientology have a right to have websites up, without fear of them getting hacked.

[imaseoulman]

My beliefs on this matter:
I firmly believe that all men have the right to worship how, where, or what they may. When an individual or organization does not have the strength to preserve that right (many historic examples including Jews, Quakers, protestants, etc.) it is the responsibility and duty of the government to preserve that right. If the government refuses, for political expediency (1839 President Martin Van Buren to Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith: "Gentlemen, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you...If I take up for you I shall lose the vote of Missouri.") to preserve these rights, it becomes the moral obligation of all able citizens to champion these rights. When there are none to preserve the rights of the weak, the weak are justified in using violence to claim their privileges.

Having said all that, mainly to show the fervency with which I believe in the freedom of religion, I must also say that all citizens have a duty to respect individual worth. If it can be shown in a court of law that "religious leaders" are misleading others for profit (i.e. priestcraft) those same leaders deserve life in prison, exile, or execution (only in the even that the accused confess) depending on the circumstances. When a religious organization attempts to operate outside of its government's laws, by inflicting any punishment other than withdrawal of religious privileges, that religion must be treated as a threat to the safety of all citizens and it becomes the duty of all who are able (government and citizens) to prevent this organization from causing any more harm and to also make restitution for past grievances. If a religious organizations resists intervention and persists in exercising any authority, other than withdrawal of privileges (because those privileges are normally based upon adherence to a certain contract), that organization must be regarded as a sovereign entity (they have insisted upon this themselves by refusing to live under the accepted government of the land) and must therefore be removed the land. The organization may be physically removed (relocation or antilocation of the people) or politically removed (right to assemble revoked).

How it applies to the current situation:
If the Church of Scientology has taken the law into its own hands by administering punishments other than the withdrawal of privileges (which it appears to have done several times) the leaders must be tried and punished for all offenses and all practicioners must lose their right to assemble. We cannot, however, punish them for teaching strange things such as silent birth. If an SP does confess to intentionally misleading others for personal gain and in the process cause harm to others (physically, mentally, emotionally, monetarily) that Scientolgoy Practicioner must be punished.

It is important to remember the right we all have to worship (or not worship) how, where, or what we may while not allowing others to use this mantra to defend immoral acts such as causing others harm. When any citizen becomes aware of any individual or organization attempting to harm others for personal gain under the guise of religion, that citizen must take action against that individual or organization. It would be prudent to first make the misdeeds public and seek the help of the government (for the we as citizens must not take the law into our own hands as long as the government is acting justly) and if the government does not respond the citizens must affect change in the government all the while protecting all the individuals they can in a legal manner. If all legal means fail, the government has become corrupt, and the citizens have a right to rebel and establish a new government that will protect the rights of the weak individual.

[PointBlank]

At my highschool my bible teacher assigned us each to chose a cult and research it. Write a 4 page report on them and explain how they differ from Christianity. Its too bad I chose my topic a week ago, if I would have chosen scientology, all this info would have been helpful.

Edited by PointBlank, 14 February 2008 - 08:01 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

I was wondering, How did the 7 people die?

Kyle Brennan (Died 2007) - Was denied medication that was treating his chronic depression, leading to his death.

Elli Perkins (Died 2003) - Was stabbed to death by her own son Jeremy Perkins after Scientology had taken him off of his medication used to treat acute Schizophrenia

Stacy Grove Meyer (Died 2000) - Although primarily an OSHA case which lead to Scientology being fined for having electrical work that was not up to code, Meyer slipped or lost her balance and fell from a ladder leading into a vault and died instantly when she touched a 7,200-volt wire connecting two transformers. Scientology has a history of only using "volunteer workers" and theres been some question as to how many of these "workers" have any qualifications to be doing the work they are employed for. It is unknown if a wrongful death suit was settled in or out of court concerning this incident.

Gabriella Bramucci (Died 1998) - Breast cancer had spread to the liver while under the care of Scientology for several years which again, had only prescribed vitamins and "touch assist" for many years.

Lisa McPherson (Died 1995) - Was by abducted Scientologists, imprisoned, tortured, and dehydrated until succumbing to a pulmonary embolism while tied to a bed at the Forth Harrison hotel.

Paride Ella and Giuseppe Tomba (Both Died 1995) - Succumbed to the symptoms of methadone withdrawals while under the care of Scientology's "Narconon" facilities in Italy which only prescribed them vitamins.

Heribert Pfaff (Died 1988) - Scientologists denied medication used to treat epilepsy, which were replaced with vitamins.

Josephus Havenith (Died 1980) - Complete details of his death are unclear but his corpse was found in the bath tub of his room in the Fort Harrison Hotel with most of his skinned burned off of his body by extremely hot water. The amount of water remaining in the tub when he was found would have made drowning impossible.

Unknown Victim (Died 1989) - Was locked in the boiler room of the Fort Harrison Hotel for an unknown amount of time and died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Identity is still unknown since no identification was found on the body.


And those are just the cases where suicide can not be claimed as the cause of death or the circumstances are too confusing to draw direct conclusions. MANY people have committed suicide because they wanted to leave Scientology but had a significant amount of blackmail leveraged against them.
http://www.factnet.o...gy/suicide1.htm

And to cover RPF Imprisonment...

SCIENTOLOGY has illegally abducted and/or imprisoned:

- 47-year-old Tunisian Woman (Italy 2008)
- "Art Student" (Los Angeles 1998)
- Robert Vaughn Young (Los Angeles 1997)
- Michael Pattinson (Clearwater 1996)
- Zane Thomas (1995)
- Lisa McPherson (Clearwater 1995)
- Name Withheld (1994)
- Janice Hayward (Phoenix 1992)
- Roxanne Friend (Florida 1991)
- Dee Rowe (California 1990)
- Marianne Coenan (Pomona 1990)
- "Miss X" (199?)
- Bob and Dorothy Geary (San Fransisico 1988)
- Gerry Armstrong (Clearwater 1986)
- Frank Notaro (Los Angeles 1985)
- Brigitta Dagnell (Denmark 1983)
- Peter Forde (England 1983)
- Margery Wakefield (Long Beach 1980)
- Moira Hutchinson (England 198?)
- Hana Whitfield (Clearwater 1978-1982)
- Dennis Erlich (Clearwater 1978)
- Annie Rosenblum (Clearwater 1978)
- Jesse Prince (1976)

And probably many others that have not come forward.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 08:32 PM.

[imaseoulman]

At my highschool my bible teacher assigned us each to chose a cult and research it. Write a 4 page report on them and explain how they differ from Christianity. Its too bad I chose my topic a week ago, all this info would have been helpful.

So ask your teacher to change your topic. If you approach him/her in the following manner I'm sure the response would be affirmative:

"I recently became aware of the conflict between Scientology and Anonymous and I'm very interested in finding out more about this conflict and how we can learn from it to stop the spread of these kinds of cults."

Also, I would advise you to be very skeptical when completing this assignment. Just because something is not a part of mainstream Christianity does not mean it's a cult. Just out of curiousity, how does your teacher define cult? When researching anything about another faith you must remain skeptical about what the opposition says. Try to find out what members of the cult think and what the cult officially teaches (i.e. if white European male married to an African Muslim states that Muslims believe in killing all non-believers, realize that the statement may not be accurate and even if the wife does believe that way it does not necessarily represent all sects of Muslims, instead read the Koran). Former members of a cult are also not very good sources because they have strong animosity for the cult after becoming disillusioned. Good luck on the assignment.

[Jedijoe9]

I know it's a YTMND, but this is an informative primer for the deaths caused by Scientology. I honestly knew nothing about it, except that Tom Cruise in a member, so I'm doing a bit of research myself.

*edit* In case you don't read the post below, this includes extremely graphic content

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

Edited by Jedijoe9, 14 February 2008 - 08:33 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

Extremely Graphic Content Warning on that above link by the way.
The same information is available at
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 08:33 PM.

[Green Riptide]

Honestly, organized religion has done this sort of thing for years, but in the 1300s there was absolutely no chance of an internet-spread revolt. It's almost like The Spanish Inquisition are coming with their lawyer team, and this time we can do something about it.

[imaseoulman]

In response to the causes of deaths:
The cases in which medication was "denied" need further investigation/elaboration. What prevented these people from seeing a physician and obtaining a prescription? If it was only their belief in not using prescription drugs (e.g. they were not physically forced to refrain from the drugs) then there is not sufficient ground for taking action against COS. I do not mean to be insensitive to these victims and those close to them, I'm just analyzing the situation from a moral stand point.

Also, the accidental death of volunteer workers is insufficient grounds for launching an attack against the organization. This and the above amount to nothing more than defaming the accused and is very circumstantial.

The three cases of outright aggression (scalding water, locked in the boiling room, and severe torture) are sufficient grounds for an attack against CoS. If these three instances did in reality occur, those guilty must be sought out and punished. If the Church of Scientology condones, recommends, or encourages these behaviors, action must be taken against the organization as a whole.

Lastly, CaptainSlug, what is the source for your information regarding abductions. Again, if an organization is taking the laws into their own hands by imprisoning others, that organization must be restructured or removed.

Edited by imaseoulman, 14 February 2008 - 08:40 PM.

[Eboreg]

True but a lot of people committed suicide and blamed the Church for their dispositions.

[CaptainSlug]

If it was only their belief in not using prescription drugs (e.g. they were not physically forced to refrain from the drugs) then there is not sufficient ground for taking action against COS.

Under the letter of the law such circumstances are still grounds for many criminal charges such as wrongful death, involuntary manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter, or second degree murder, all depending on the evidence of the circumstances surrounding the crime. A few of the victims DID seek or requested licensed professional medical services. Some were denied it, but in the case of Lisa McPherson she was actually abducted (while not coherent) from the hospital by Scientology officials.
Only very few of the cases ever make it to court due to the local political clout of the "Church" in both the police force, court system, and local government. Some instances even had extremely improbable claims on the coroners report of the victim.
The "Church" also staffs an enormous and extremely expensive legal team that makes civil suits nearly impossible.

Also, the accidental death of volunteer workers is insufficient grounds for launching an attack against the organization. This and the above amount to nothing more than defaming the accused and is very circumstantial.

Yes at best it establishing corroboration of the character of the organization.

If the Church of Scientology condones, recommends, or encourages these behaviors, action must be taken against the organization as a whole.

The "Fair Game" Policy of Scientology basically permits any Scientologist to ignore the basic human rights of anyone declared a "Suppressive Person".

Lastly, CaptainSlug, what is the source for your information regarding abductions. Again, if an organization is taking the laws into their own hands by imprisoning others, that organization must be restructured or removed.

Most of the names on that list are from affadavits or depositions from the victims themselves or those that perpetrated the abductions. Others are from media interviews of the victims. I didn't really list any of the ones that don't have solid dates, locations, or facts attached to them.
Here is just one of many sources.,
http://www.scientolo...prisonment.html

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 09:05 PM.