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The Snap-duo

Working towards a homemade Manta

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#1 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:14 PM

The main thing I learned while building this gun is that I shouldn't be holding sharp objects today. I've managed to cut myself at least three times.

Anyway, it's been a while since I've made a "novelty" SNAP, and Bag's recent creation spurred me into action. I've been thinking abut a gun with multiple plungers for quite some time, but mostly with the plungers feeding one barrel in an attempt to get more range. Thinking abut the Manta made me realize that it'd be much better to have multiple shots ready to go. After all, I already get around 90 feet with the basic plunger design...why do I need more?

So, here's the basic idea of a homemade Manta...the SNAP-DUO.
Posted Image

I'm using compact plunger heads to keep the length down, and Dogbone barrels for quick reloading.

As you can see, it's pretty much two SNAPs side-by-side. The main thing of note in construction is the bracket I'm using to held the two together. It's using the same system as I used to attach the handle in the SNAP-5, a 1/2" CPVC endcap jammed into 3/4" PVC, and then screwed in from the inside of the couplers and endcaps. (As a note of how not to do this, I had initially placed the front bracket in the middle of the front coupler, reasoning that there was the most plastic thickness there for drilling a countersunk hole. Well, it's also the spot where neither the PC nor the reducing bushing will cover, so you're left with two gaping holes. I could have sealed them somehow, but I thought the best option was to not have the problem in he first place.) Unfortunately, the CPVC endcaps I bought last night were a bit bigger then my other ones, so I I had to do a bit of sanding to get them to fit.

Another thing to consider when using screws inside the coupler: the hole needs to be countersunk so the head doesn't obstruct the tube. It's possible to do this with a regular drill and a larger bit, but use slower speeds and low pressure. The bit can suddenly bite in and you can be completely drilled through before you realize it.

I'm using a linked system of clothespins for firing.
Posted Image
This way, I can have the triggers in the middle of the front handle, and give my pushrods a direct line to the rear firing pin. And since the project was largely inspired by Bags, I decided to use all fluorescent pink clothespins in his honor.

Firing position:
Posted Image
I still have to work out all the bugs as far as comfort and trigger placement (it still feels a little odd, and I'd like it more if I could somehow figure out how to make it truly ambidextrous...feels better in my left than my right), but overall it feels very nice right now.

The chargerods aren't obnoxiously long.
Posted Image

The triggers from the front:
Posted Image
There's no way a plastic clothespin would be able to survive the stress I'm putting on it by itself, so I'm using mending plates as the trigger. They're essentially pivoting on the spring, so there's a lot less stress on the plastic itself.

A closeup of one linkage:
Posted Image

And pulled:
Posted Image

There's a lot to do as far at making this truly usable. The arm bracket may need to be shifted a bit, triggers correctly placed, front bushings screwed in. And if I have intentions of turning this into a true homemade Manta, I'll need new springs...at the moment, this thing is ridiculously powerful, too much so for a Manta with a shield.

Edited by Carbon, 10 August 2010 - 07:30 PM.

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#2 nerfer34

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:37 PM

That's really cool.

I like it a lot.

I think it would be even better if you turreted them. THAT would be intimidating.
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#3 imaseoulman

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:39 PM

WOW! I really like this a lot. Just a few minutes ago I was sitting down and trying to figure out how to integrate 4 NF's into a Manta Ray and I was trying to work out a decent firing system. This has given me some ideas to consider. I'd love to see that thing war ready. Add Bags' manta shell to this and you've got one of the best homemades I've ever seen. How heavy is this. If you were to have a shell/shield on this, would it still be light enough to manuever quickly and deflect shots?
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#4 sam

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:42 PM

Why would they be too powerful? Would you want some bad ass power under your manta?
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#5 bobafan

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:43 PM

So are you going to leave it without a shield or will you put on ARs or something to mike it not as good?
Nice trigger design. Do the trigger bolts interfere with holding it?
I still don't get the dogbone barrels, but they look cool.
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#6 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:48 PM

Nerfer:Two turrets....man, that'd be insane.

I may just have to do that.

Add Bags' manta shell to this and you've got one of the best homemades I've ever seen.

I've got a template made and ready to go...I just need to find my raw materials.

It's going to be....medieval.

How heavy is this. If you were to have a shell/shield on this, would it still be light enough to manuever quickly and deflect shots?

Not heavy at all. The problem right now is the rear armrest, the front grip, and the width of the design. With the current trigger placement, I can't really grip the front...so the whole thing pivots on the rear. This is accentuated by the overall width of the design. So, I'm hoping to shave off an inch or so of width, maybe rework the front trigger pivots, and make a snug collar for the rear. Also, the manta shell will be removable. I'm hoping to have the whole thing ready for the summer...but I wanted to post the mechanicals right now. I'm impatient that way.

Sam: More talking about the spirit of the Manta...the usual gun can block, but can't fire very well, a trade-off of powers. A homemade Manta could both block and shoot two shots 90 feet....I didn't think many people would find that very fair. But it'd be pretty kick-ass to play with if people would allow it.

Bobafan: I'll be making a shield....coming soon. As far as power, it depends on what people I'm playing against think...if other players don't have a problem with it, then all is good. A dogbone barrel just has a wider end. My normal barrels are too tight to shove in a dart more than halfway.

Edited by Carbon, 02 February 2008 - 01:51 PM.

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#7 penguin807

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:58 PM

May I suggest 2 inline clips instead of 2 turrets? That way the distance would be toned down to an acceptable amount, and you'd have "Holy-crap-ROF". Regardless, nice work again Carbon. Maybe I'll make a homemade now.... maybe...
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#8 Quilan Fett

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 02:01 PM

But what about Arachniphobia. 8 shots semi auto (with 2 triggers that is) that each go over 100'? If that's not too powerful, I don't think your's is either.
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QUOTE(pokemaster @ Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM) View Post

hasbro in a nerf war!!!!! dude the will cancel it and confinscate are guns

#9 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 02:55 PM

But what about Arachniphobia. 8 shots semi auto (with 2 triggers that is) that each go over 100'? If that's not too powerful, I don't think your's is either.

The difference there is that Arachnophobia is all stock Nerf parts, shell and air supply. I'm just going off the comments in the discussion of Bags' homemade Manta shell, where they were talking about potential "rules" for homemade Mantas, one of which was potentially limiting the strength of the blasters. We are talking about homemade shields, which are traditionally viewed as Lame. Granted, it's in the spirit of the Manta, so we'll see how it's accepted. From the sounds of it, I think it'll go over just fine at the midwest wars.

Penguin: I may have to give the inline thing a try...although, I still like the idea of twin turrets. Twin brass turrets coming off the front would make it look like a freakin' Leviathan.

I think I have a name....

Edited by Carbon, 02 February 2008 - 02:56 PM.

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#10 Cannonball

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 03:54 PM

Is the manta shield big enough to cover both snap tubes? I'm just eyeing it here but I think you may have some of it sticking off the sides. Regardless, awesome job Carbon. If you turret those two, it will look something like the double gatling gun Heavy arms carries in Gundam wing. My animefanness showed. my sincere apologies, I just thought it would resemble it.
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#11 PvtMcFlurry

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 03:55 PM

1 Word.

BaNgIn'
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QUOTE(Cannonball @ Oct 26 2007, 11:47 PM) View Post

I'm anxiously awaiting the hasbro over throw.

One Man Clan, or One Man Company?

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#12 frost vectron

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 05:12 PM

I likey.

Again, great job Carbon for bringing homemade plunger guns so far!

I bet you could rig up a SNAP-Quattro without making the thing all that much bigger.

Edited by frost vectron, 02 February 2008 - 05:12 PM.

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#13 baghead

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 06:38 PM

Let me start with one Thing...

*Gives Carbon E-High-Five*

alright, now that that's out of my system.

very interesting design you have there. Can't wait to see the final product, particularly since I (sort of) know what you're planning to do.

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#14 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:36 PM

Is the manta shield big enough to cover both snap tubes? I'm just eyeing it here but I think you may have some of it sticking off the sides.

I was wondering, too. I already have my template made for the shield portion, so I did a spot check.
Posted Image

I created my template using one of Bags' photos as a template, and traced it in Illustrator. I checked it against the measurements he so thoughtfully provided, and it's accurate in proportions. If I get rid of that inch of width, I think it'll settle in nicely. (I'm trying it with two inlines right now, which is why the barrels are so much longer.)



Thanks, everyone...I'll keep updating this as I get results.

Edited by Carbon, 10 August 2010 - 07:32 PM.

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#15 ice

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:41 PM

That's beastly, but I'm not a fan of pink. Also, I realize I have no authority to point out a mistake, because you've probably fixed it without me knowing it, but why didn't you integrate the pump?
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#16 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:54 PM

That's beastly, but I'm not a fan of pink.

I'm not normally either (it's why I had so many pink ones left over), but it's a nod to Baghead. Check out some of his paintjobs and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I realize I have no authority to point out a mistake, because you've probably fixed it without me knowing it, but why didn't you integrate the pump?

Because it's a springer. I don't build air guns.

Anyway, don't worry about any kind of "authority" to point out problems. I value everyone's input...the ideas of the community makes them better than I could make them on my own.
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#17 nerfer34

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:56 PM

That's beastly, but I'm not a fan of pink. Also, I realize I have no authority to point out a mistake, because you've probably fixed it without me knowing it, but why didn't you integrate the pump?


These are 2 spring plungers that Carbon's working with. There's no pumping involved. Is that what you meant?

Carbon, I was going to say inline barrels too. I'm going to break down the pros and cons

Well if looks like with this gun that you may be running with it(in war situtation) with the barrels facing the ground or below hip level. So you certainly don't want your darts to fall out...

i think you best bet may be tight fitting barrels on the turret. the inline may run into problems if it will be facing the ground a lot of the time. Either that or stick with your dog bones. In this mod, I think inlines may not be the way to go(it's tough for me to say that...).

this is going to be one cool primary.

Edited by nerfer34, 02 February 2008 - 07:57 PM.

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#18 TAiLsChaser

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:36 PM

Looks like a nice weapon. The only thing I would do to it would be to put a strap to hold my arm in place. That way, it'll be easier to hold and wield.
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#19 Salmon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:02 PM

Yeah, I'm a total noob, so I'm probably making some huge mistake, but, theoretically, couldn't you make several different barrel attachments, such as one normal one, one silencer, one turret, one inline clip, one shotgun(as in a barrel that loads more than one dart), etc? Or would that be much to hard?
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#20 sn1per

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:12 PM

And since the project was largely inspired by Bags, I decided to use all fluorescent pink clothespins in his honor.

Best part.
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#21 Carbon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:19 PM

Looks like a nice weapon. The only thing I would do to it would be to put a strap to hold my arm in place. That way, it'll be easier to hold and wield.

Yeah, I think some kind of cuff might be necessary. Some work on the ergonomics are definitely needed.

Yeah, I'm a total noob, so I'm probably making some huge mistake, but, theoretically, couldn't you make several different barrel attachments, such as one normal one, one silencer, one turret, one inline clip, one shotgun(as in a barrel that loads more than one dart), etc? Or would that be much to hard?

Yup, that's the way I do it. All of my barrels are mounted in 1/2" PVC, so they're all completely interchangeable. I like modular parts, as it makes reusing parts much easier down the road.
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#22 Z-man12

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:11 AM

Carbon if you want a link to makeing gauntlets, in the style of Jango Fett. Send me a PM and I will get you the link. Might be a way to go insted of straps...

Nice idea, so far seems to be working well. I have been wondering why you didn't have a dule barrled snap yet.
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#23 VACC

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 02:34 AM

Nice. If you bought this to a war with a homemade manta shell on top you'd give me some SERIOUS hesitation about disallowing it on the basis of it being a homemade. What I like about this is that it is not a manta ray shield taped to a rifle, it's a perfect homemade replication of what the manta-ray should represent. And while I'd still likely say no to using it in one of my wars, it's really encouraging to see more homemades created with war use in mind as opposed to just jacking up ranges at any cost. And the ultimate compliment any nerfer can give you is this: I want one.

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#24 Carbon

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:01 PM

Carbon if you want a link to makeing gauntlets, in the style of Jango Fett.


Gauntlets...now that's a good idea. And it even fits in with my other plans... *insert maniacal laughter here*

And while I'd still likely say no to using it in one of my wars, it's really encouraging to see more homemades created with war use in mind as opposed to just jacking up ranges at any cost.

Definitely. Range is cool and all, but it's pointless if it makes warring no fun, or ruins the play dynamic. The goal now is to solve usability problems.

Everyone talks about it, but it's definitely true: getting to my first war really changed my ideas of what's important in gun design.

And the ultimate compliment any nerfer can give you is this: I want one.

Particularly coming from you. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Now, on to the changes for today....

Main problem from my design from yesterday was that there wasn't a good bar to grab in the front because of the trigger placement. No bar means it was that much more difficult to move it at a shield, or to pull the chargerods. So, I hit upon an idea to use some tees to make a small box area on the front handle, and then put the triggers in front of that. It was then a natural progression to move the triggers inside those tubes. Here's the result.

Posted Image

The two rings are now the triggers. You can get a good hand wrap, and reach up to get the trigger.
Posted Image

All the parts come off rather easily.
Posted Image

I had initially tried to put the clothespins inside the tube, but it was pretty apparent that wasn't going to work. So, those upper triggers have changed to simple pivots. The screws on the upper tees are going into narrow aluminum tubing, which is in turn screwed to my mending plate.
Posted Image
Posted Image
The allthread runs right down the tees, and joins up much as it did before.

Stuff to fix:
The new triggers seem to have messed up my firing pins a bit, so that needs some refinement. I had cut my pullrods long, but not quite long enough...I may need new ones.

Working with screws means that the threads are potential friction points. I may need to wrap it up or make a few holes bigger.

Still trying to figure out the best barrels for this beast.

I wonder if I'll ever post a gun tha I've actually finished.

Nah, this is way too much fun.

Edited by Carbon, 10 August 2010 - 07:35 PM.

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#25 nerfer192

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 05:14 PM

That thing is so sicknasty! just put on the shield thing and youve got a great gun.
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