68 replies to this topic

[bobafan]

I was thinking combined or independent breeches.



Proportions aren't right but you get the picture.

[Bomberman]

I think you should make the shield out of that plastic sheeting that is used in the +bow, and use frost paint. You know, like on windows. And this looks amazing. It shows true craftsmanship. Thumbs up to you!

[Carbon]

bobafan, on Feb 4 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

I was thinking combined or independent breeches.

Proportions aren't right but you get the picture.

I certainly do...



I happened to have two breech barrels around, one which was from the SNAP-4 when it used mags. I did a bit of basic testing on my properly functioning breech, and this gun performs quite well with 12" of brass. So it's either two breech barrels, or my dogbones with a 6 shot inline. That might get a little long.

As far as the shield goes, I have plans. Oh yes, I have plans. I hope to get out for raw materials this Thursday...then I can really get started on finalizing the ergonomics of the gun. The rear brace feels like it may need to extend back a little bit further. When I get the shield on, I'll add the restraining system.

Time for some fine-tuning....

Edited by Carbon, 15 January 2025 - 12:47 PM.

[Diablo]

That's another amazing creation you got there, Carbon. I hope that you'll be able to tame it down enough to make it war legal, because I'm sure using it in action would be a lot of fun.

My only critique is that the barrels in your most recent design are pretty long. I understand this is necessary, but I think that having such long barrels as an extension of your arm would be annoying during use. What if you relocated the barrels, much like in a stock Crossbow? A few simple couplers would allow you to bring your barrels under the plunger; ideally around where your clothespins are. The relocation should also hinder range a bit, which may make your gun more war legal. The only problem I foresee with this idea is weight. Adding a lot more piping may weigh your blaster down, but perhaps it would be worth it to make a shorter gun.

Not sure if that's something you're interested in doing, but I figured I'd throw the idea out there in case you're interested. Either way, you made a great gun.

[Carbon]

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid massive barrels. From a Manta perspective, it's way too long (I tried it with those 6-shot inlines, and that was even goofier. What's more, I had double-fire problems far too often). I've considered cutting down the spring (which would entail cutting down the length of the PC and refitting my triggers), or employing some manner of air restrictor (a washer at the base of the barrel).

A barrel relocation is an interesting thought. I had thought about flipping around the PCs a la the SNAP-4, but that means the chargerods would come out the front. Not good when the thing is strapped to your arm.

That being said, the barrels aren't that bad, from a usability standpoint. It still comes across as a shorter extension than the SNAP-1, mainly because the PCs run back along the arm. I'm going to see if it feels too big when I get the arm straps in, and make decisions from there.

[jwasko]

I don't see how having the charge rods forward would be bad, Carbon. I mean, that's how the Manta does it and it worked out alright. It seems wide enough that you wouldn't have to worry too much about the charge rods smacking your hand or anything. Although, you would then have charge rods sticking out the front (though, they look shorter than those breeched barrels).

It would also simplify your triggers somewhat, as you wouldn't have to reverse the pulling back of the triggers into the pulling forward of the clothespins.

Edit: Although, now that I think about it, you could have just attached the clothespins in the "normal" direction in the first place and accomplished the same thing...so, you must have a reason for not doing that.

Edited by jwasko, 05 February 2008 - 10:57 AM.

[Carbon]

jwasko, on Feb 5 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

I don't see how having the charge rods forward would be bad, Carbon. I mean, that's how the Manta does it and it worked out alright. It seems wide enough that you wouldn't have to worry too much about the charge rods smacking your hand or anything. Although, you would then have charge rods sticking out the front (though, they look shorter than those breeched barrels).

Most of my concern stemmed from the SNAP-4, and how the leverage was hard to work out, pulling away from the body. And honestly, I doin't think I really knew the stock Manta charged that way.

With a shorter gun strapped to the arm...the leverage might work out okay. It's a simple matter of changing my rear endcaps and redrilling the triggers, so I'll give it a try. If it's successful, it'd essentially be a twin-barrel version of what the SNAP-4 has evolved into, with a shield.

Quote

It would also simplify your triggers somewhat, as you wouldn't have to reverse the pulling back of the triggers into the pulling forward of the clothespins.
Edit: Although, now that I think about it, you could have just attached the clothespins in the "normal" direction in the first place and accomplished the same thing...so, you must have a reason for not doing that.

Generally, it's because it gives me more flexibility on where to place the triggers (while not placing them on the grip bar), and keeping a straight push back to the triggers (freeing up the hand/arm space).

Edited by Carbon, 05 February 2008 - 12:54 PM.

[Carbon]

For the first time ever I actually have a snow day from work. So, I naturally got some time in cutting on some plastic.

I have no idea why I hesitant to use a reverse plunger, because it works great.


And underneath.


Two inline clips, looking at five shots in each. The linline gets the power under control, so I can use my original shorter barrels (of course, dogbones aren't needed with an inline. I'll replace them later).

The compact size feels great.


And it flips over in your hand for priming....you don't have to let go of the handle.


Now on to the fit and finish tweaks.

Edited by Carbon, 19 April 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[sputnik]

So how does the inverted plunger affect the range?
Up or Down?

[Carbon]

sputnik, on Feb 6 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

So how does the inverted plunger affect the range?
Up or Down?

The plunger direction doesn't affect range, more ergonomics. And I've never actually tested range on this gun. However, its construction is identical to the SNAP-4, with a slightly smaller inline. As such, it should get ~50-80 feet. Considering the number of shots, and that it'll eventually have a shield, that's great. I'll get "official" ranges later.

[sputnik]

Carbon, on Feb 6 2008, 12:22 PM, said:

sputnik, on Feb 6 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

So how does the inverted plunger affect the range?
Up or Down?

The plunger direction doesn't affect range, more ergonomics. And I've never actually tested range on this gun. However, its construction is identical to the SNAP-4, with a slightly smaller inline. As such, it should get ~50-80 feet. Considering the number of shots, and that it'll eventually have a shield, that's great. I'll get "official" ranges later.

Cool.
Amazing work as always.

[VACC]

I'm very impressed with the amount of refinement you've effected on your design in such a short period of time. The only concern I'd still have with this thing is it's overall size. While it's not large for a homemade, it is very wide for a mantaray. What are the measurements from side to side and from the rear elbows to the front T-joints?

[jwasko]

Carbon, on Feb 6 2008, 01:12 PM, said:

I have no idea why I hesitant to use a reverse plunger, because it works great.

You're welcome.

Just kidding.

I am glad it worked out for you, though. And a snow day from work? That's crazy.

But, I notice that you changed the triggers slightly...are you leaving that center part out, or did you just forget to put it in for these pictures?

[Carbon]

VACC, on Feb 6 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

The only concern I'd still have with this thing is it's overall size. While it's not large for a homemade, it is very wide for a mantaray. What are the measurements from side to side and from the rear elbows to the front T-joints?

Current'y, it's 12" wide by 15" long, and the barrels add a shade under 5" to the length. Size-wise, it's still under the width of baghead's homemade shield.

jwasko, on Feb 6 2008, 12:42 PM, said:

Carbon, on Feb 6 2008, 01:12 PM, said:

I have no idea why I hesitant to use a reverse plunger, because it works great.

You're welcome.

Just kidding.

*laugh* I was thinking it while I was writing that post, but neglected to say it...thanks for pointing me in the right direction, jwasko.

Quote

But, I notice that you changed the triggers slightly...are you leaving that center part out, or did you just forget to put it in for these pictures?

Just didn't put it back in. The part I had put in there was pretty temporary...I'm going to cut a better one, and drill out some cleaner holes for the trigger posts. Also, I want to use cap nuts for the triggers, so I'm leaving it accessible for now. The nuts I have on there tend to fall off.

Yeah, snow day...chances of up to 20" of snow, with 10"-15" being pretty definite.

[Carbon]

yourface, on Feb 6 2008, 12:59 PM, said:

Excellent, Carbon. Will you be adding one of Baghead's homemade Manta covers? That's about the only thing it needs to kick 100% ass.

Yup. I'll be starting on that this weekend. I have...plans.

[Carbon]

yourface, on Feb 6 2008, 02:16 PM, said:

The ranges sound a little excessive for a Manta, though. Have you tested it with the smaller springs yet?

I'm not going to go that route, if I have to. Smaller springs would end up being a pain, as I'd have to completely refigure the triggers and the length of the PC. If people end up having a problem with ranges, I'd use small ID washers as a sort of air restrictor. Either that, or I could drill small vent holes at the base of my barrel, to bleed a touch of pressure. However, considering that the first page of the thread consisted of most people saying they didn't see a problem with SNAP ranges, I'm not too worried.

The final verdict will be this summer when I actually get to war test it. Until then, it's all academic.

[Diablo]

As VACC said before, I'm amazed at how quickly you're refining this gun. The designs keep getting better and better, too.

Amazing job as always. I can't wait to see it with a shield on it.

[Falcon]

Do the recent additions mean you're not gonna turret it?

*whimper*?

[Carbon]

'Falcon', on Feb 7 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

Do the recent additions mean you're not gonna turret it?

*whimper*?

Turns out the trigger tees block where I'd put the turrets a bit too much. It's just as well...I really wasn't looking forward to building another turret. I like the end resutls, but man, they're expensive and time consuming. I *gotta* get myself some PETG and see if it's a decent barrel material for my darts.

I've been putting some time into the actual Manta aspect of a manta homemade...the shield. After seeing what bags pulled off, my immediate reaction was to do something similar, but in leather....sort of a medieval look. My imagination went to black leather with rivets....so, let's see the work.

I created a template using a photo from bags' original thread. I took the photo into Illustrator, traced one half the general shape, then cloned and flipped it. I printed it on 24" paper for convenience, plus two halves. I sketched out what kind of look I was going for...sort of a terraced look:


I was going to do the same piecemeal methd of building, but using smaller pieces to create my layers. This meant that I could use inexpensive scrap leather. My local leather shop has a huge box of scraps going for $1.79 a pound. This is two pounds:

In case you can't see, that's a stack about an inch tall...it's a rather large amount.

Next job is to sort out the pieces, and see what sizes will work out to make the general shapes. My workflow was to make the large general shape first, using mainly larger pieces. Since I was going to use rivets, I wanted to minimize seams on the lowest layer.

I also made a few changes to my pattern based on the characteristics of leather...long points will just curl over, so I made the angles a bit more obtuse when I cut them out.

I ended up cutting the larger chunk on the left in half, in order to go along with teh established "guidelines" for number of pieces used to create the shield. I ended up using 20 pieces.

Then, I took the pattern I had drawn earlier, and cut off a uniform edge. I then used that to create the next layer. Rather than hollow out the center of each piece, I had decided to build from the top down: rivet down the top piece,, then rivet it to the next.


I went with a symmetrical design, so I could flip over my one piece and use it as a template to cut out the other. Each piece was scored with a hobby knife, and then finished with a scissors.


As I ran out of larger pieces, started pieces them together to create the layers. I did this on the fly, based on the pieces that I had. That's the main difference between this project and bags'...he created his shapes and traced them to larger sheets, whlile I generally worked based on the size chunks I had available.


As I built the layers, I took care to make my seams run perpendicular to each other, and that I had sections to bridge each part.


I cut all the layers, building upwards. I later cut some of my larger sections into smaller pieces in order to increase the total number of pieces.

Assembly was top-down. I riveted the top to the next lower layer, so I didn't have to cut out the middle of each section. It increased the weight slightly, but not badly. I punched each hole using a hand punch and hammer, and then set each rivet by hand. No assembly photos...I ended up building in my apartment's basement...which is largely unheated, and it's -5 today. I was in a hurry to get out of there. So, here's the end result:


Sitting on the Duo:


And handheld:



My total cost of construction was $10....half for the leather, and half for a bag of rivets. (I already had the various mallets and punches), and I've been working on it for about two days. I'm still going to have to add a few connecting sections on my lowest layer....they're bending away from each other a bit too much.

Edited by Carbon, 19 April 2015 - 04:50 PM.

[Matt31]

Wow, that is awesome, Carbon! One of the few homemades where the cosmetics just blow away, the rivets are a perfect touch!

[themilkman]

Can someone please call an ambulence because Carbon just blew my mind with that LEATHER shield. O_O
It emits a demonic aura like the leather was made from the pants of a Hell's Angel who killed 30 ppl. SO COOL

[noobert]

With that gun you could even make a matching outfit.

[Z-man12]

Carbon you may want to wax harden that shield for more protection. If your interested let me know I can point you toward some information on how to make leather armor that would definitely apply to your shield.

You did a good job with the leather work. That stuff can be a mess to work with some times.