Sure but that's only the acceleration from torque. You also have to consider acceleration from momentum transfer between the flywheel and dart. And guess what? Faster flywheel = more momentum = more acceleration. The point of the flywheel system is to store energy by "charging up" the system with flywheels and releasing it rapidly to the dart. This released power is much greater than the power rate that charges up the system. By prioritizing torque as oppose to RPM, you are defeating the purpose of the design.
Obviously there is a trade-off on how fast RPM you should achieve (without considering available motor options). The answer is: you should get motors that can go as fast as possible (RPM) that will also recover at a rate you want (because the faster RPM, the slower the recovery speed).
Also I highly doubt that you will find any better 130 motors besides Tamiya ones... Even with their RPM specced motors, they will probably still have higher baseline torque figures than anything else of that size (their magnets are insane).
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In Topic: Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...
25 January 2013 - 06:45 PM
In Topic: Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...
25 January 2013 - 05:35 PM
I am the guy who was doing the mods with azrael.
Oreo has a few good points.
However, the gain of the kinetic friction coefficient from a reduced relative speed difference of the flywheel and bullet is not enough to justify the trade-off of having a lower flywheel speed. This is because at these speed differences, the kinetic friction coefficient is approximately constant.
The 300 rpm is a idealization that can never be achieved. First, nothing in the world has perfect grip. Even if your static friction coefficient is 1, your maximum grip force is only as much as the bullet's force on the flywheel. So unless you construct a mechanical grip system (which will involve making custom bullets probably with slots in them for the flywheels to grab), this concept is pointless.
Nevertheless, torque is still an important figure. Not to determine the speed of the exiting bullet, but rather to determine the rate of fire as you need to replenish the flywheel speed as fast as possible for optimal performance.
I did notice a relatively slower recovery time with the hyperdash2s than my 3s (12.6V) over-voltaged stock rayven (with stock motors). But with the plasmadashs' double torque gain, it should be enough to match that of the stock rayven, which is quite high even for "war" applications.
The most ideal flywheel design using stock streamlines is probably a brush-less motor driving very heavy flywheels. Although you can argue that heavy flywheels will reduce recovery time, you also have to consider that heavier flywheels will also mean a relatively less loss in speed from the flywheel to bullet momentum transfer. So yes, it will take longer to spin-up overall. But you loss less speed from bullet fires and thus, need less time to recovery back to original RPM.
All of this "over-engineering" is pretty pointless for this gun in my opinion. No matter what you do, how fast the bullet is, how far the range is, the accuracy will be complete crap due to the nature of the design. This is just a nice side weapon to have for close combat as the rate of fire is much faster than a conventional cock mechanism.
If you feel like it, throw on some nice 130 motors and plasti-dip the flywheels. Otherwise, just over-volt the stock gun with some nice lipos and call it a day. Just don't be a noob and use trustfires as they are severely limited by output current. Put it this way, people use 16.8 V trustfires without triggering the stock therm-resists. My 12.6 V lipos triggered them after 10 seconds of firing... If anything at least parallel your trustfires to pump the correct current. Over-voltaging to compensate for current limitation is terrible design and engineering.
Oreo has a few good points.
However, the gain of the kinetic friction coefficient from a reduced relative speed difference of the flywheel and bullet is not enough to justify the trade-off of having a lower flywheel speed. This is because at these speed differences, the kinetic friction coefficient is approximately constant.
The 300 rpm is a idealization that can never be achieved. First, nothing in the world has perfect grip. Even if your static friction coefficient is 1, your maximum grip force is only as much as the bullet's force on the flywheel. So unless you construct a mechanical grip system (which will involve making custom bullets probably with slots in them for the flywheels to grab), this concept is pointless.
Nevertheless, torque is still an important figure. Not to determine the speed of the exiting bullet, but rather to determine the rate of fire as you need to replenish the flywheel speed as fast as possible for optimal performance.
I did notice a relatively slower recovery time with the hyperdash2s than my 3s (12.6V) over-voltaged stock rayven (with stock motors). But with the plasmadashs' double torque gain, it should be enough to match that of the stock rayven, which is quite high even for "war" applications.
The most ideal flywheel design using stock streamlines is probably a brush-less motor driving very heavy flywheels. Although you can argue that heavy flywheels will reduce recovery time, you also have to consider that heavier flywheels will also mean a relatively less loss in speed from the flywheel to bullet momentum transfer. So yes, it will take longer to spin-up overall. But you loss less speed from bullet fires and thus, need less time to recovery back to original RPM.
All of this "over-engineering" is pretty pointless for this gun in my opinion. No matter what you do, how fast the bullet is, how far the range is, the accuracy will be complete crap due to the nature of the design. This is just a nice side weapon to have for close combat as the rate of fire is much faster than a conventional cock mechanism.
If you feel like it, throw on some nice 130 motors and plasti-dip the flywheels. Otherwise, just over-volt the stock gun with some nice lipos and call it a day. Just don't be a noob and use trustfires as they are severely limited by output current. Put it this way, people use 16.8 V trustfires without triggering the stock therm-resists. My 12.6 V lipos triggered them after 10 seconds of firing... If anything at least parallel your trustfires to pump the correct current. Over-voltaging to compensate for current limitation is terrible design and engineering.
- NerfHaven
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