134 replies to this topic

[Geric2004]

Bubba Longshot, on 16 Aug 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

That would be way too thick like Spud Spudoni said. No human would have that large enough hands to grip over a magazine and a plunger. Even if it were possible, there would be no way of connecting the priming handle to the plunger head. You'd have to make it prime from the bottom or something, and that'd defeat the purpose of this homemade.

 

12 inches for a homemade pistol meant for NIC level gameplay isn't very large. Nitefinders and Firestrikes with speedloaders are around the same length.

 

Two plungers mean that you have to prime twice to fire one shot. Also, with the two priming handles on opposite sides of the magwell, it'll be awkward to insert a mag.

A rectangular plunger system would be incredibly hard to manufacture. You'd somehow need to flatten PVC to get the plunger tube. Then you'd need to somehow source a rectangular washer or o-ring to get a seal. Finally, finding a spring that would fit inside a plunger like that and provide adequate power is next to impossible. Just look at the Pocketstrike's internals.

 

I personally think that the current design is great and Captain Slug is working hard to make it a reality.

I know it would be thick, It was just an idea I was playing around with. But for the priming it could be linked in to the slide with fishing line or steel chain thing that the project currently uses.

[CaptainSlug]

Unless I run into some huge unforeseen technical hurdle I'm not going to be changing the design drastically.
 
I will edit this post with a new magazine design later today.

 

So not wanting to make a tall and thin-walled print that's likely to fail I've decided to make the main body of the magazine out of 3/4" x 3/4" aluminum U-Channel. There are no rectangular tube sizes close to what I want anyways, and I can use the resulting gap between the aluminum parts as a channel for viewing the number of darts loaded, and as a place to run the rubber band being used at the follower spring. I will need to see if roll pins or weld rod can be used as a roller for the transition point for the rubber band so that I can utilize more of the elastic range available. I also want to avoid making this magazine too much wider overall of that will make the inevitable larger magwell adapter much more difficult to create.

 

I'm not quite sure when I will get the prototype made. But atleast these printed parts are much smaller and simpler than the previous iteration.

[Geric2004]

Might be another bad idea but what about a double stack mag? ( I only have a 2d drawing in cad, still haven't converted to 3d model) I have one theoretically 1.12 in thick and 5.2 in in length. Thoughts?

[CaptainSlug]

Too wide and won't work with foam.

 

If you want higher capacity with this design you just cut longer aluminum u-channel. And at some point you have to get a longer rubber band.

[Geric2004]

CaptainSlug, on 17 Aug 2017 - 1:15 PM, said:

Too wide and won't work with foam.

 

If you want higher capacity with this design you just cut longer aluminum u-channel. And at some point you have to get a longer rubber band.

 

That quick reply! Thanks Cap! 

[Meaker VI]

CaptainSlug, on 17 Aug 2017 - 1:15 PM, said:

Too wide and won't work with foam.
 
If you want higher capacity with this design you just cut longer aluminum u-channel. And at some point you have to get a longer rubber band.

Au contraire Captain, it has been done.

Just isn't ideal for this project.

Ed: bloody autocorrect

Edited by Meaker VI, 17 August 2017 - 08:37 PM.

[jwasko]

Meaker VI, on 17 Aug 2017 - 2:01 PM, said:

Au contraire Captain, it has been done.

Just. It ideal for this project.

I think that those two stacks did not quite "center" though, as would be needed for a springer's barrel or even most flywheels. That blaster looks to have very thick flywheels, so it can fire from two slightly offset stacks.

[Meaker VI]

jwasko, on 18 Aug 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

I think that those two stacks did not quite "center" though, as would be needed for a springer's barrel or even most flywheels. That blaster looks to have very thick flywheels, so it can fire from two slightly offset stacks.

Possibly, it's been awhile since I've watched the vid. The post also should have said "just ISN'T..." not whatever I typed.

[CaptainSlug]

I did some test prints of the magazine parts today and they turned out way better than anticipated.

I'm going to order the rubber bands tomorrow and I should have the first test magazine put together soon.

[CaptainSlug]

Okay, it's sort of working. I printed the U-Channel instead of buying it just as a test, but it works.

Current issues

1. The follower needs some revisions as it rubs against the rubber band when it gets to the top of the mag.

2. The follower needs revisions to help keep it aligned inside the mag so it doesn't run into the underside of the feed-lip part

3. The rubber bands I bought are surprisingly too long by about 2 inches in circumference. I had to trim and tie this one for testing.

 

The pins as a transition point are working. The magazine also stays in one piece without glue, so testing, disassembly, and reassembly is going to be a piece of cake.

Worst case scenario if I can't solve the above two items with minor changes, I can just widen the magazine a hair so the rubber bands will clear.

[Meaker VI]

CaptainSlug, on 26 Aug 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

Okay, it's sort of working. I printed the U-Channel instead of buying it just as a test, but it works.

3. The rubber bands I bought are surprisingly too long by about 2 inches in circumference. I had to trim and tie this one for testing.

 

Longer U-channel, more darts!

 

Also, for your catch design: If you do end up using aluminum or other channel, as you well know round holes and notches are easier to cut than the square hole it looks like you've got.

[Geric2004]

CaptainSlug, on 26 Aug 2017 - 01:01 AM, said:

Okay, it's sort of working. I printed the U-Channel instead of buying it just as a test, but it works.

Current issues

1. The follower needs some revisions as it rubs against the rubber band when it gets to the top of the mag.

2. The follower needs revisions to help keep it aligned inside the mag so it doesn't run into the underside of the feed-lip part

3. The rubber bands I bought are surprisingly too long by about 2 inches in circumference. I had to trim and tie this one for testing.

 

The pins as a transition point are working. The magazine also stays in one piece without glue, so testing, disassembly, and reassembly is going to be a piece of cake.

Worst case scenario if I can't solve the above two items with minor changes, I can just widen the magazine a hair so the rubber bands will clear.

 

Any more updates Captain? Would love to see your design fully printed and working.

[CaptainSlug]

Every waking free moment of my life is consumed by Caliburn production right now. I simply haven't been able to squeeze much prototyping of this design into my life since November.

[Snoop Doggy doge]

late af to this but, were constant force springs mentioned instead of rubber bands? I think those work pretty well, based on the "Milan Mags/Swordfish Mags" 

also I cry that this thing hasn't been further developed as it looks really cool 

[Geric2004]

CaptainSlug, on 15 Jan 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

Every waking free moment of my life is consumed by Caliburn production right now. I simply haven't been able to squeeze much prototyping of this design into my life since November.

How about the cad files? Will you release them? Sorry for the questions but I have some ideas for the project and would like to make one as a sidearm for my local wars.

[shmmee]

Snoop Doggy doge, on 16 Jan 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

late af to this but, were constant force springs mentioned instead of rubber bands? I think those work pretty well, based on the "Milan Mags/Swordfish Mags" 

also I cry that this thing hasn't been further developed as it looks really cool 

Bob O'Bob (if memory serves) once posted a write up on another site (years and years ago) where he used constant force springs curling up into a half circumference of brass to lift a follower. The tail simply ran to the top of the mag and snuggled up against the darts. It's an idea that has stuck with me since it could double the capacity of a 3" wide mag by splitting the mag into two chambers for two columns of half length darts. So, random thought, why not just cut a stock mag in half and print a flat back to stick onto the stock mag? You'd get two mags by sacrificing one stock mag (and what nerfer doesn't have a pile of useless 6 round mags to experiment with? Granted, the printed mags do look beautiful. I've never taken apart a "retract-a-badge" so I don't know what diameter they curl up into, but they may be a cheap and easy source of a doner constant force spring.

 

At the very least, the rubber-bands will have a limited lifespan and travel length in comparison to a CF spring. Less foam crushing power too.

[Meaker VI]

Popped open a stapler this morning, and immediately thought "why not make a magazine follower that works the same way this stapler does with a standard extension spring?"

 

Spoiler tags to accommodate gigantic images of doom:

Spoiler

 

Edited by Meaker VI, 23 January 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[Snoop Doggy doge]

Meaker VI, on 23 Jan 2018 - 9:44 PM, said:

Popped open a stapler this morning, and immediately thought "why not make a magazine follower that works the same way this stapler does with a standard extension spring?"

I think the biggest issue with that is probably the excess space it's taking up when it could be more compact, 


also Shmeee I think something that might interest you are these,
https://www.facebook...915796382006262

[Geric2004]

Snoop Doggy doge, on 24 Jan 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

I think the biggest issue with that is probably the excess space it's taking up when it could be more compact, 


also Shmeee I think something that might interest you are these,
https://www.facebook...915796382006262

But what about the angle? Captain Slug main the custom mag just so that it would be angled.

[CaptainSlug]

 My remaining hesitation with this project as it stands is still that slide-prime is ergonomically awful, and you are asking the printed grips to bear a huge offset load as a result of that mechanism. I've also discovered that the lanyard cable I used to make the Piranha (and is subsequently used in this design) is in rough shape and being stretched by a spring for over a year. But given how cheap they are it's probably something I'm just whining about and shouldn't be holding me up.

 

To start printing the prototype for this I just need to buy another small printer.

Meaker VI, on 23 Jan 2018 - 9:44 PM, said:

Popped open a stapler this morning, and immediately thought "why not make a magazine follower that works the same way this stapler does with a standard extension spring?"

That would make sense for the GRIP ITSELF to split open and allow you to reload the internal magazine by just stuffing the darts in. And that would mean you could reload your pistol without having to have proprietary mags.

 

The downside is that your follower now has to have a linear guide feature on the side opposite the extension spring, or the extension springs have to be to each side of the follower. Both of which are arguments in favor of using a rubber band instead of a spring.

 

Anywho, enough excuses and whining. I'm currently printing the fourth revision of the grip. If it fails to be comfortable this time I may have to give up on Katana mags.

[Meaker VI]

CaptainSlug said

That would make sense for the GRIP ITSELF to split open and allow you to reload the internal magazine by just stuffing the darts in. And that would mean you could reload your pistol without having to have proprietary mags.

This wouldnt be the worst; with the popularity of the Kronos it might be a good piece to just be a rehash of Boltsnipers old built-in mag pistol. Even having the mag ahead of the grip would be fine IMO, itd make reloading easier.
 

CaptainSlug said

The downside is that your follower now has to have a linear guide feature on the side opposite the extension spring, or the extension springs have to be to each side of the follower. Both of which are arguments in favor of using a rubber band instead of a spring.

Seems like a C channel (not U, need the little arms on a C) would do this intrinsically? An extension spring would certainly be more costly than a rubber band, but I was thinking itd be both stronger than a rubber band and cheaper than a linear spring, so its just another avenue to explore. If its more work than a rubber band (or maybe elastic band eg: shock cord?) stick with that, being that its the cheapest possible option.

[CaptainSlug]

Fifth test print and I'm still hating it. It's not terrible, but it's enormous so it doesn't let your hand wrap around it intuitively.

 

So now I have to either go back to custom printed mags and refine the current design, or switch to an integral mag. I'm leaning towards an integral mag simply because it allows me to avoid having to supply potential customers with extra magazines. And a sidearm with a proprietary or expensive magazine would be pretty dumb if it's not something that could be easily adapted to a primary.

[Meaker VI]

CaptainSlug, on 25 Jan 2018 - 2:50 PM, said:

Fifth test print and I'm still hating it. It's not terrible, but it's enormous so it doesn't let your hand wrap around it intuitively.
...
So now I have to either go back to custom printed mags and refine the current design, or switch to an integral mag

Funny that you bring that up, I knocked out a rough model of an BS9 NTS last night. For all the grief Ive been giving the Venticora guy, I checked to see if itd be compatible with full length darts/mags. In a total 12 inches of blaster, it could easily chamber either full or short darts with a 4 inch draw/6 inch spring.

Apologies for the sketchup file, but it turns out thats just how I best think. I can make fusion work but I cant think in it.

Im not happy with the grip placement/trigger group, and I didnt design the magwell at all. If there is space, building it for both built-in mag or regular mags would be ideal; otherwise the stapler mag is appealing as slapping a stack of darts in would be pretty easy, and making two parts (built-in or removable box) wouldnt be the end of the world. The change I made that led to the grip placement was drawing a more modern style monolithic floating omni-plunger, with a sear catch instead of a pin. I was working on how it all goes together when I went to bed, forgot while drawing that it needs -as a feature - a built-in pull handle with all the griping about the Kronos and M6 lately.

Edits: apparently floating quotations as used to indicate inches arent allowed on mobile? Or something? I submit and they dissappear

Edited by Meaker VI, 25 January 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[TantumBull]

CaptainSlug, on 25 Jan 2018 - 2:50 PM, said:

So now I have to either go back to custom printed mags and refine the current design, or switch to an integral mag. I'm leaning towards an integral mag simply because it allows me to avoid having to supply potential customers with extra magazines. And a sidearm with a proprietary or expensive magazine would be pretty dumb if it's not something that could be easily adapted to a primary.

 

This might be a dumb question, but when you say integral mag, do you mean a non detachable magazine in the grip? That would either load from the top when the slide is locked back, a la Grendel P10, or sideloaded at the at top of the grip at anytime? Something like the grendel might be more difficult, as you would need a way retain darts from coming out the top during normal operation, but able to move that retainer when reloading. A rotatable barrel/bolt might be able to achieve this: has a brass quarter-pipe at the top during normal operation, is turned 90 degrees during reload.

[CaptainSlug]

Yes, integral mag in the grip because that won't take up as much internal volume as having to accommodate a removable magazine. The working concept for me to design from now is what Meaker suggested. The backstrap of the grip will hinge open allowing you to reload the whole stack of darts at once.

 

A loading gate being possible or not is going to depend on how the breech gets revised now that it doesn't have to fit within the feed lips of a removable magazine. But I don't see topping-off darts as much of a priority.

 

The only thing I will be sad to see go is the novel trigger guard that doubles as the mag release. But that going away provides me an opportunity for a more rigid structure between the grip and plunger tube.