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Durendal: My take on a Rainbow Catch

Entry-Level Beginner Homemade Springer

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#1 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:53 AM

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This design was inspired by both Lucian's use of cross dowel nuts, and the Rainbow catch. Adding both of these things provided an opportunity to cut the part count of a Plusbow (even a Rev.3) in half. All simply because the grip is attached to the plunger tube using this type of hardware, allowing it to simply be a sandwich of 3 polycarbonate pieces.
 
Write-Up: http://captainslug.com/durendal.html
 
Templates: http://captainslug.c...l_templates.doc
(Includes plunger tube templates for 3 different blaster size options)
 
Pistol only templates (no stock attachment points): http://captainslug.c...late_pistol.doc
 
Partlist: http://captainslug.c...al_partlist.xls

rp_01.jpg
rp_02.jpg
rp_03.jpg
rp_04.jpg
rp_05.jpg

The next step is to make a shorter version that matches the proportions of a typical Rainbow Pistol. The one pictured has 3 more inches of spring and a bit more stroke so it's shooting awfully far for a "pistol". I will evaluate the feasibility of making the grip parts out of plywood or hardwood.

Also in the works is a full spring version with an optional stock.
rl_00.jpg
Special thanks to: Lucian, KaneTheMediocure, Carbon, and rork
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#2 Meaker VI

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:50 AM

This thing is so clean.

 

I am absolutely certain you can make the grip out of wood. If you're testing it, try 1/4" hardboard (clipboard & pegboard material) - that stuff is cheap, readily available, and the lowest quality stuff I'd think is close to up to the task. Regular MDF probably is not (and is actually usually more expensive than hardboard). Oak, Maple, and better hardwoods very likely are, but are also $4/board foot and up and not always available in ready-cut 1/4" sheets. The high quality plywood usually found in modeling and hobby shops is probably also up for it, but plywood requires special treatment to not fill your hand with splinters in an application like this.


Edited by Meaker VI, 20 September 2016 - 09:50 AM.

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#3 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:04 AM

You wouldn't want to have your hand in contact with hardboard for a long time though. It gets gross pretty fast, so you would have to paint it.

The 1/4" boards are available in every Home Depot and Lowes I've been to so far. They're opposite or down the aisle from the premium planed boards, usually near the stair rail components and siding in little cubby holes at waist heigh. Poplar is too soft, but I'll try it anyways. Oak will work, but will need lots of sanding after being cut (big deal). Maple isn't usually available, so would probably have to be ordered online or as trim panels from a lumber yard. It helps that in the intended assembly 3 sheets are going to be glued together.

And yes, hobby shops would be a good option. Michael's might actually have something relevant so I'll need to take a look there.
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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#4 Draconis

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 11:04 AM

Well that's just gorgeous.  Probably time to upgrade from the old LpL.


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[15:51] <+Noodle> titties
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#5 Meaker VI

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:34 PM

The 1/4" boards are available in every Home Depot and Lowes I've been to so far. They're opposite or down the aisle from the premium planed boards, usually near the stair rail components and siding in little cubby holes at waist heigh. Poplar is too soft, but I'll try it anyways. Oak will work, but will need lots of sanding after being cut (big deal). Maple isn't usually available, so would probably have to be ordered online or as trim panels from a lumber yard. It helps that in the intended assembly 3 sheets are going to be glued together.

I've seen those, but wasn't sure if they were everywhere. What are you cutting oak with that you need to sand it? I used to get laser-straight cuts in oak when I was doing projects with it. Maybe try to find hickory or douglas fir if you can't find maple, both are pretty strong.


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#6 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:36 PM

Got the templates and partlist done. Both are added to the top of the first post.

 

Write-up will come later. Though this is absurdly simple to make and there's nothing involved that doesn't already get outlined in the Plusbow write-up or even other Rainbow write-ups. The unique aspect of this grip is that you can either use screws to put it together, or just opt for glue by using the screws to clamp the parts together temporarily. Once the glue is set you can just take the screws out and put them back in your bins.

 

The stock parts need to be able to be taken apart and probably shouldn't be glued until you are completely happy with their location/length. This is because you need to be able to thread the cross dowel nuts for it on and off to adjust its position. The sWashers prevent the threaded rods from using the cross dowel pins as pivot points.

durendal_parts.png

And one last thing to note. Cross Dowel Nuts as listed in the part list have the threaded hole off-center. You can see this in the photos at the top of this thread.

If you want longer cross dowel nuts with threaded holes that are centered you may have to buy those through Amazon. Lowe's also sells them with a centered threaded hole, however their price for them is $1.26 each. Those (and many others available) are also smaller in diameter so make sure to buy and measure the hardware you intend to use before drilling the holes in your parts.


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#7 Lucian

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 09:13 PM

Very cool Slug, thank you for the honorable mention. Very happy to see someone revisit my design, yours looks amazing as always! I'm very eager to build one of these myself before APOC.


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Contact me for design consultation relating to 3D Printing, CNC Machining, and Laser Cutting. I am always happy to collaborate on viable Open Source projects and/or business ventures. 


#8 CaptainSlug

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 08:06 PM

Write-up added to first post.

rp_08.jpg

rl_01.jpg


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#9 shandsgator8

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 08:21 PM

Is aluminum used as the plunger tube material because it has more consistent ID tolerances?


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#10 CaptainSlug

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 08:26 PM

Is aluminum used as the plunger tube material because it has more consistent ID tolerances?

It's also stronger, doesn't fracture around drilled holes, and has a very smooth interior surface. I'm hitting slightly better ranges simply by switching to it from polycarbonate.

 

The downside is that it makes for a blaster that doesn't look like a toy. So it needs to be painted for safety reasons.


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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#11 Montymarks

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 03:34 PM

Its beautiful...
I wish I had more than a saw and a drill as tools...
Also, any thoughts on 3d printed parts for this? It might work as a cheap alternative.

-Montymarks
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#12 CaptainSlug

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 03:43 PM

The primary cost of this blaster is in hardware like the spring, skirt seal, screws, threaded rod, etc. You could 3d print the grip, stock, or plunger head. But doing that only avoids the $7 worth of polycarbonate that those parts consume.


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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#13 Meaker VI

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:50 PM

Its beautiful...
I wish I had more than a saw and a drill as tools...
Also, any thoughts on 3d printed parts for this? It might work as a cheap alternative.

-Montymarks

 

The parts on this blaster you'd be able to print would be just as easy to make with a $10 coping saw. And you'd probably save money over printing it unless you own the printer, since this printed is probably 12+ hours and a few hundred grams of material.

 

All that said, all this takes is a saw and a drill. Maybe pickup a clamp and a rasp/file, but you're only talking $20 in extra tooling. Really, I said it to slug earlier - to me, this thing could easily displace the Mark-8 as a beginner's blaster. It's super clean and straightforward, and should be pretty easy to build with even basic tooling if you take the time to do it.


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#14 Montymarks

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:28 AM

OOOH!

If school wasn't so time consuming, I might make this!

Also, on the photo right before 

"The next step is to make a shorter version that matches the proportions of a typical Rainbow Pistol. The one pictured has 3 more inches of spring and a bit more stroke so it's shooting awfully far for a "pistol". I will evaluate the feasibility of making the grip parts out of plywood or hardwood", what barrel are you using? It looks like a weird Petg that comes in safety orange

 

-Montymarks


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#15 CaptainSlug

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:47 AM

The speedloader was painted with one light coat of fluorescent orange. The barrels are 7-inches of 1/2" ID PETG


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#16 blitz

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 02:17 PM

 Really, I said it to slug earlier - to me, this thing could easily displace the Mark-8 as a beginner's blaster. It's super clean and straightforward, and should be pretty easy to build with even basic tooling if you take the time to do it.

 

While I would agree that the tooling required to build one of these is fairly minimal, I disagree that the blaster could be designated as a beginner's blaster. I'm not harping on the design, it's simple and beautiful, but it requires too much material from McMaster or online sources, while SNAPs and the Mark 8 can basically be built after a Lowes trip. 


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#17 CaptainSlug

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:31 PM

 

While I would agree that the tooling required to build one of these is fairly minimal, I disagree that the blaster could be designated as a beginner's blaster. I'm not harping on the design, it's simple and beautiful, but it requires too much material from McMaster or online sources, while SNAPs and the Mark 8 can basically be built after a Lowes trip. 

The only hurdle there is having a payment source that McMaster accepts. If you don't have a credit card (due to being too young or other) it's pretty easy to just go to any retail store and use cash to buy a VISA\AMEX\MC gift card. You can then use that to place your order online.

 

I've explored trying to come up with a hardware store only blaster a few times and haven't come up with anything really worthwhile. My particular location has become even less receptive to it being an option.

 

The only plunger head you can make from either Lowe's or Home Depot is a superlative one.

And the options available for springs is very very limited. The only springs I've found that's worthy of using for a full-power homemade are the ones you can extract from the inside of door closers. They're 19-inches long and have a wire diameter of .080". The OD of them depends on which diameter of door closer your buy. These come with an o-ring plunger head, but the plastic it's made out of is not going to survive the abuse of being slammed into the end of a plunger tube.

 

The last remaining hurdle is being able to source polycarbonate. I used to have a local source, but they closed that part of their business. And none of the hardware stores near me carry any that's thicker than .093". And to make things even less desirable most of the plastic pipe that my local locations stock has a terrible interior surface finished that's full of pits.

 

All of these issues combined are making it very unlikely that I'm ever going to develop a blaster that you can make from any hardware store location as a primary source of materials.


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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#18 Meaker VI

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 10:39 PM

The last remaining hurdle is being able to source polycarbonate. I used to have a local source, but they closed that part of their business. And none of the hardware stores near me carry any that's thicker than .093". And to make things even less desirable most of the plastic pipe that my local locations stock has a terrible interior surface finished that's full of pits.

 

All of these issues combined are making it very unlikely that I'm ever going to develop a blaster that you can make from any hardware store location as a primary source of materials.

 

Could you build a rainbow-esque catch from fender washers? Or some other pre-cut steel/other part? That's the big hangup IMO- 1-1/4" PVC makes a fine PT, and really anything else is just for looks or marginally improved efficiency. Superlative head is acceptable, but you can also usually find a -216 Oring if you look/ask. A bungie/laytex strap could stand in for a spring if you can't find one locally - Ace #49's and one of the handyman springs at HD (can't recall off hand) work ok; IMO the springs are the biggest reason to make Mcmaster orders and it should be reasonable to buy one off someone at an NIC event if you really need it.

And as you've shown, all you need the poly for is the catch. Wood works for the handle and looks so good. Shoot, *good* hardwood would probably work well for the catch too; I tried it once (Failure) but I think my tooling was bad (hand drill at the time).


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#19 CaptainSlug

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 10:57 AM

Fender washers are a pain in the ass to cut and most of the ones that both Lowe's and Home Depot stock are typically the wrong size. I've thought about doing it that way, but they would have to be mounted outside of the plunger tube instead of inside it.

 

The current catch plate could be made out of red oak if you make it closer in shape to a typical rainbow catch and then ditch the catch guide piece. The catch guide piece isn't completely essential to the function of the catch, I only added it to keep the parts more lined up. The extension spring really is doing most of that work anyways.

 

The catch configuration is designed to anticipate using alternative materials (like 1/4 cutting boards) since the spring collar piece that is ahead of it will help handle a portion of the compressive load.

 

So yes, if I have time (or someone else does) this design could be re-approached using hardware-store-only parts. Several parts will require adjustments. The tab on the catch plate has to be lengthened if you want to use SCH40 pipe for the plunger tube. Making the plunger rod could be an issue. I want to try the method makeitgo was trying that uses PEX tubing and drywall anchors.


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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#20 jaxmeh

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 12:07 PM

I've tried MiG's pex plunger rod design. I personally would add a #8 or #10 washer to the catch face, but other than that, it's a sturdy design. Worked great with my pvc ring catch and a K24 spring. If you're looking for a local alternative to polycarb, I'd second the suggestion of cutting boards that you mentioned. I've used them, they make insanely strong rainbow catches. I wonder if you could use PVC or ABS sheet to make a rainbow catch? ABS is what Hasbro uses, after all.

Edited by jaxmeh, 10 October 2016 - 12:08 PM.

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#21 CaptainSlug

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 01:39 PM

I've tried MiG's pex plunger rod design. I personally would add a #8 or #10 washer to the catch face, but other than that, it's a sturdy design. Worked great with my pvc ring catch and a K24 spring. If you're looking for a local alternative to polycarb, I'd second the suggestion of cutting boards that you mentioned. I've used them, they make insanely strong rainbow catches. I wonder if you could use PVC or ABS sheet to make a rainbow catch? ABS is what Hasbro uses, after all.

PVC could be used, but you can't buy it locally aside from cutting and unrolling pipes with a heat gun.


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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#22 Snoop Doggy doge

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 04:56 PM

The only hurdle there is having a payment source that McMaster accepts. If you don't have a credit card (due to being too young or other) it's pretty easy to just go to any retail store and use cash to buy a VISA gift card. You can then use that to place your order online.

Have you tested that? It sure doesn't sound like it would work.
First you have to pay extra 5$ to get a card, and you don't know how much money you need on that card because McMaster shipping.

I'm just curious if that method works because I've been getting it off my stuff off of friends, 


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#23 CaptainSlug

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 05:06 PM

First you have to pay extra 5$ to get a card

The AMEX ones don't involve a fee and can be used anywhere as if they were a regular credit card. You will just have to buy one with a balance high enough to anticipate shipping costs.

 

https://www.american...com/gift-cards/


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#24 Snoop Doggy doge

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 07:21 PM

And if you anticipate too high, can you save the money?
If to low, than what?

Just seems, very risky. 


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#25 shandsgator8

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Posted 10 October 2016 - 07:41 PM

And if you anticipate too high, can you save the money?
If to low, than what?

Just seems, very risky. 

 

I imagine you can use the left over funds along with cash in any retail establishment that accepts AMEX.


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