20 replies to this topic

[Talio]

So it turns out the Chicago guys got kicked out of a park by the cops.  Someone's Mom got all twisted up about it and called the news thinking they were gonna focus on the cops and not the nerf guns.  This is obviously retarded behavior.  As a group we need to understand there is never going to be good press about us.  It's never going to be about the kids running around and having fun.  It's going to about the kids getting hurt and working with tools to make the guns more dangerous.  Because of that, we need to stay out of the god damn press.  That means complying with cops and understanding that you have no right to be in a park shooting darts at 100 fps in the first place.  You've all seen the thread, article and video.  I want you all to understand something very important.  When paintball hit the scene kids were playing it in parks and eventually it became this big regulated thing.  The difference is that paintball didn't have a company looming over them that could shut them down in a heart beat.  We do.  If Hasbro's legal department keeps getting calls from news organizations about modified nerf blasters how do you think they're going to respond.  You all have to understand we are one cease and desist away from being shut down for good.  No one here has the money to fight Hasbro.  They are a corporation with infinite resources.  If they want us gone, we're gone.  So if you want to keep playing in parks, modifying toy guns and generally having a shit load of fun below the radar then it has to stay below the radar.  Any press, any attention we get will not be positive and some shit head 13 year old (see the video) isn't the one that's going to have to deal with the fallout if any is to come.

So new rule.  If you get caught talking to press about nerf guns you will no longer be welcomed at Nerf Haven.  You will be banned permanently.  This is not opened for debate.  If you wish to be a member at this site do not talk to a reporter.  And if the cops come and tell you to leave, you comply.  It's just that simple.  This is not the kind of attention we need and if we don't stop it here who knows how far it could go.

Talio.

PS. If any of the Chicago guys want to actually explain what happened, feel free. I've only got the story from one person thus far. Just keep it civil.

[badger]

I agree completely Talio. This statement from you will be copied over at NHQ as well, if you want. Take it from someone that has seen the press firsthand slant a story one way or the other. This could be very bad for our hobby.

Speaking only for myself (though I think the other members of the NHQ M&A team will have the same sentiment), but NHQ fully supports this decision and as a forum in the NIC will act as needed to preserve our hobby.

Just this year a few of us got invited to an event by Hasbro. This situation may have hurt our standing with Hasbro from here on out. Let us hope that we are still in their good graces after this clusterfuck.

[Langley]

What Talio said about the press is absolutely true. Unfortunately for us, the press has everything to gain by pandering to outraged parents, and nothing to loose by upsetting outraged nerfers. For that reason alone you should never do anything to entice anyone from the mainstream media to focus on your nerf war, or your modifications, or your website. They will find the one one thing which, when taken out of context, can leave us with our pants down.

At the same time it's important to remember that we really haven't got anything to hide. Anyone who looks at that CBS piece with a critical eye will see that a caring mother took time out of her day to express to that reporter how proud she is of a son who's taking part in a really great hobby. As futile an effort as that may have been, I think it's far more telling than any youtube video of some moronic teenager doing something irresponsible in their basement. So if you came to this site looking for more dirt on the evil scourge of Nerf Modification, feel free to take a look around. All you'll find is a tight community of people who are involved in a hobby that's about half as dangerous as high school football, with about ten times the benefit.

Nerfing promotes a certain type of out-of-the-box thinking that you won't find in other sports. Young people who come to NerfHaven often build an appreciation for tinkering, and learning a craft. Many develop an interest in Physics and Engineering, or develop skills that they can go on to use in a profession or trade. Others who were never interested in athletics or the outdoors will find they are pushing themselves harder physically than ever before. All will gain a sense of sportsmanship and fair play, because the teams are never permanent and your opponent one moment may be your ally the next--a practice you will seldom find on high school and college athletic fields

As for safety concerns, eye protection is mandatory at nearly all events. Nerf blasters and ammunition that are considered unsafe are prohibited, and standards for safety are encouraged throughout the community. With respect to some of the footage seen in the CBS piece, we don't tolerate needle darts or other idiotic and unsafe practices here. The sort of kids who would make that junk are more likely to be found cooking meth in their parents basement than planning and hosting a Nerf War on this site, and it is absurd to lump their antics in with our community.

So no, if the temptation strikes you, don't call the press about your Nerf War. And if some 'journalist' sticks a mic in your face and starts asking leading questions, don't hesitate to walk away. But never forget that you are a part of an awesome community that you can take pride in. A community that has nothing to offer the press, but nothing to hide from it either.

Edited by Langley, 25 November 2010 - 03:15 AM.

[Mr BadWrench]

The News Media gets paid to find something negative and report it.. How often do you see a positive piece on the news?

[Talio]

Guys, just to be clear, this isn't that big of a deal. That report meant nothing. I just don't want it to happen again. Lets just try to slip back into obscurity.

[phillypretzel]

To quote a certain anonymous organization of like minded individuals that hasn't just survived, but thrived over the last 80 years:

Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.

and goes on to say

As [this group of like minded individuals] has no opinion on outside issues; hence the [name of this group of like minded individuals] ought never be drawn into public controversy.

It works.

[faddle]

I agree what Talio is saying. Right now we should all stay low and not discuss anything about modifying nerf guns with the news and most of the public. In the Nerf Video Directory there is a video about a news story that is similar to what CBS said.

Edited by faddle, 25 November 2010 - 09:38 PM.

[Fome]

  The difference is that paintball didn't have a company looming over them that could shut them down in a heart beat.  We do.  If Hasbro's legal department keeps getting calls from news organizations about modified nerf blasters how do you think they're going to respond.  You all have to understand we are one cease and desist away from being shut down for good.  No one here has the money to fight Hasbro.  They are a corporation with infinite resources. If they want us gone, we're gone. 

The particularly retarded sections are in bold.

Let's pretend for a moment that Hasbro could do something (ie. lawsuit) to a highly unorganized and scattered group of random people who meet from all over the United States (and beyond) via a relatively unpopular internet website to discuss homemades and modifications of various brands of foam blasters (not exclusively Nerf), and let's also pretend for another second that "Hasbro's legal department" actually deems it wise and necessary to pursue such legal action, consuming resources and drawing press attention to the very issue they're trying to cover up - the worst they could possibly do is ask you to change the website's name so it doesn't include "Nerf". Oh wow - we're undone.

There is no "shutting us down", not in our ability to have websites related to our hobby (1st amendment), or in our ability to organize and shoot foam darts at each other (that's the city's issue or personal property ordinances). The "do not modify darts or blaster" disclaimer on the guns and boxes are to keep us from suing them.

This story has no ill effect on our hobby except in spurring such a rediculous paranoia.
This isn't a big deal. At all.

Further, if I have the opportunity to provide an intelligent insight into the fun, creative, and safe aspects of this hobby to somebody in the media - then I sure as fuck don't need Talio's or anyone elses' permission to do so. Perhaps allowing children to represent your hobby is part of the problem?

Anyways, Look at some of 3DBBQ's videos to see how his homemade airguns were covered (quite positively) in the past.

Edited by Fome, 26 November 2010 - 04:29 AM.

[Talio]

The scary part Bob is they don't even need the lawsuit.

http://en.wikipedia....ease_and_desist

One letter drafted by a lawyer on the payroll with a per dium and we're done. Even if they have no leg to stand on and the case would be absolutely rediculous there is literally nothing we could do but shut down, hire a lawyer and try to fight it. Don't believe me? Here's a quote from the wikipedia article:

Civil liberties and free speech groups such as the ACLU have criticized cease-and-desist letters, pointing out that the letters may be used by wealthy individuals and organizations to silence opponents who are unable or unwilling to engage in an expensive lawsuit, and thus may feel compelled to comply with a cease-and-desist letter even if it is unjustified.

That's how it works. Happens all the god damn time. So Fome why don't you shut your faggot mouth before you pretend like you know what you're talking about. Fucking kids.

Talio.

[ilzot]

I gotta agree with Talio on this one.

If you want to get really technical, we are infringing a copyright at this moment. Cease and desist letters, which I've dealt with composing in the past, pretty much tell whoever is using your name, ideas, or anything else made by you to fuck off.

Here's a general template for a C+D letter;

Dear Sir;

We are the proprietors of all copyright in a work entitled ____________________________. We have reserved all rights in the Work, which was first expressed in material form on ___________________________.

It has come to our attention that your work entitled _____________________________ is identical/substantially similar to our copyrighted Work. Permission was neither asked nor granted to reproduce our Work and your Work therefore constitutes infringement of our rights. In terms of the Copyright Statutes, we are entitled to an injunction against your continued infringement, as well as to recover damages from you for the loss we have suffered as a result of your infringing conduct.

In the circumstances, we demand that you immediately:

1. remove all infringing content and notify us in writing that you have done so;

2. immediately cease the use and distribution of copyrighted material;

3. undertake in writing to desist from using any of our copyrighted Work in future without prior written authority from us.

We await to hear from you by no later than close of business on __________________________.

This is written without prejudice to our rights, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

Yours faithfully,


If you don't do what they tell you, legally, they can just get this site shut down. They don't even need to use the fact that we're using Hasbro brand toys, they can simply just say we're using the term "Nerf", which they came up with, in a site name.

This whole situation is pretty unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past a major toy company to do this just so they can stop getting grilled by the press.

[Talio]

That's the basic idea. The point here is that the Nerf team has been really good to us and we should do everything in our power not to provoke them. Kids modifying their toys to be dangerous is not good press for them and we should do everything in our power to stay out of it. I don't think it will ever come down to this, but lets try our best to avoid attention just as a sign of good will. This is a clear case of someone over reacting because they got kicked out of a park, which as I've pointed out MANY times before, cops are perfectly in their right to do. The Mom called the news station thinking they were gonna help with the cops and she should have known that wasn't going to happen. I know she's just trying to be involved with her kid, but it was quite poor judgement on her part. You guys need to understand that the cops can throw you out and you have no say in it. Don't get upset, just go home or find another park and don't go back to the park that you got chucked from before. It's that simple. I think we've asserted that any media attention we get is going to spin the dangerous of our hobby and even if we did get a positive news story it would do very little to benefit us. If you want to spread the word about Nerf stick to word of mouth. Tell your friends or look for people in your area on the web. Don't talk to the press cause anything you say will be used against you. That's why this rule exists now. If you're going to provide the news with ammo to attack our hobby with, you don't need to be part of this site. Plain and simple. Again, it's not open for negotiation. If you don't like it, I hear NHQ is nice this time of year.

[Homestarune]

Blah, Blah, Blah. I clearly do not understand what is going on.

Seriously, fuck off. The administration at my university forced Humans versus Zombies to close down. A significant part of this was due to bad press. Keep in mind that the vast majority of these blasters aren't even modified, and even those that were at most had air restrictors removed.

Nerf is already being kind to the NIC by allowing us to receive information before it's officially posted. Not to mention the gift bags that some have received. Bottom line, we're being more than just tolerated. The last thing we need to do is piss them off.

Edited by Homestarune, 26 November 2010 - 11:01 PM.

[zander2]

I agree with what Talio said, but I have something to add. DON'T BE STUPID. You saw the crap on the news. One of the main points of the video was that it was dangerous because children were putting thumbtacks in darts. Seriously? SERIOUSLY? THAT is the kind of crap that gets us in trouble, not as much the wars. Thumbtacks or sewing needles can stay out of Nerf, thank you. Before you go putting something on Youtube or bringing it to a war, think: if I get caught with this, will it make Nerfers as a whole look like they are putting kids in danger? If the answer is yes, then, oh, I don't know... DON'T DO IT!

[Fome]

Maybe you paranoid vaginas should tuck your balls back into your purses and put your tin foil hats back on.

Nerf isn't going to sue but if they did (which they're not) I personally welcome the division. I make (and so do many other nerfers) everything I need to have a war, and at a much lower price and much higher performance than anything I could "mod" or buy in the stores. There's empowerment in standing alone, but if you'd rather wallow at Nerf's heels and be content at having release info one day prior, then that's fine- but also kind of pathetic.

If played correctly, media attention could get our hobby very fucking far - but you girls are obviously content with being "that dorky shit I saw some fat dudes and little kids playing in the park last weekend".

Edited by Fome, 29 November 2010 - 07:15 AM.

[VACC]

Right, cause it's not like I've been waiting for a good reason to tell you to fuck off forever....no...wait...it's exactly like that. Thank God.

[Talio]

You know I don't think Fome every notice I changed his interests to cock on his profile. Apparently he's got a history of antagonizing us. Nice having you around Fome, enjoy NHQ.

[koree]

but you girls are obviously content with being "that dorky shit I saw some fat dudes and little kids playing in the park last weekend".

Yep, very much so. I like the hobby for what it is.

[Salindin Naz]

You know I don't think Fome every notice I changed his interests to cock on his profile. Apparently he's got a history of antagonizing us. Nice having you around Fome, enjoy NHQ.

And that, my friends, is why you don't fuck with Talio. Now he really is just playing with kids.

Edited by Salindin_Naz, 29 November 2010 - 10:22 PM.

[gmzamz]

*snip*Don't talk to the press cause anything you say will be twisted however they see fit, often times negatively, and THEN used against you.*snip*

Talio, I fixed that statement for you.

Seriously people, it doesn't matter whether or not Hasbro can take legal action. If a bunch of negative (or even positive) stories get out, parents won't let their kids buy nerf blasters and the NIC will only be getting newcomers from people that spend too much time on the computer.

I personally don't think that Hasbro will take legal action on the modifaction community, because then parents won't buy Nerf blasters for their kids to play with, taking away a large chunk of ther revenue*. Also, please don't flame/antagonize/eat me on this because it is MY PERSONAL opinion.

*DISCLAIMER: I don't know for sure, but with my luck, it will end up being the OPPOSITE of what I guessed.

EDIT: I wonder how long it will take to find something seriously wrong with my argument.

Edited by gmzamz, 30 November 2010 - 04:31 PM.

[utahnerf]

If you get caught talking to press about nerf guns you will no longer be welcomed at Nerf Haven. You will be banned permanently.

So did this happen to Vas? Just wondering, I can't find him on the member list.

[Talio]

No, I'm letting everyone off the hook this time because the rule didn't exist before. If I would ban everyone I'd ban the kid with the Mom that can't keep her yap shut. Apparently Vas tried to get them to focus on how much fun it was and all the positives, but the one thing they kept was the one thing that was negative. Oh and the other guy that "fixed" my post. I'm perfectly capable of expressing myself sir. I don't need your paraphrasing to do my job. Thank you.