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When Do Nerf Blasters Become Too Powerful?

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#1 Ryan201821

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 12:28 PM

We had this same discussion on the Midwest's online Nerf ning. So I want to open it up to the rest of the community and see what your opinions are. And I only want to hear opinions of people who actually attend nerf wars frequently and have noticed this over the last few years.

Technology, new ideas/designs, etc. is allowing higher ranges, with higher rate of fire. My example for this is a +bow setup with Beaver's hopper clip idea.
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I've tried this setup for a couple rounds at the last few wars I've attended. Honestly, it was too good. I could get 7 shots off as fast as I could prime my +bow, with only a 5-10' drop in range. Instead of a simple end cap on the hopper clip, I was using a 3/4" ball valve, to make reloading the clip, very easy. And if I really wanted to be a dick, I could use a thirty dart clip and still get ranges around 100'.

So my question is, when do nerf blasters become too powerful? At what point do you say they are too powerful?

The best solution we came up with, which was Beaver's idea, is limiting the weight you can put in your darts. Instead of using 1/4" slingshot weights, like most of us do, we would only allow maybe a single BB as a weight.

Beaver's preliminary results: (ranges w/ +bow)

1/4 slingshot weight: 140ft
Washer: 120ft
1bb weight: 85ft

Now, as a war host, this is not ideal, and hard to implement. Unless you are willing to make darts for everyone attending your war, how would you make sure every dart has a certain weight?

Switching to megas could be an option, but who wants to re-barrel all their blasters?

Making a giant list of banned blasters doesn't help either.

So, what do you guys think?

Edited by Ryan201821, 25 October 2009 - 12:29 PM.

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#2 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 12:42 PM

Honestly, this can be debated on and on for hours upon hours...In the end though, it should really be left up to the war orginizer. Depending on the situation, +bows shooting 140' could be absolutely acceptable. This can be based on a number of factors; how leaniant the host of the war is, how many similar blasters there are in play, and even based upon who is attending the war and what the general concensus is. If the majority of people at the war deam the blaster too powerful, then maybe it should be put away for the day, and another should be used. Regardless, a backup blaster should always be brought along with average range/rof that has been deamed acceptable. If someone doesn't have access to more than one primary, then it should be up to the war orginizer to provide for anyone whose blaster they deam too powerful.

Personally though, I feel that if you can build it, you should use it, unless it gets to the point where it becomes unsafe. Then though, as the day progresses, and people begin to complain that you're dominating the field of play a little too much, it's time to pick up a new blaster.

It's really a matter dependent on a lot of things, which makes it hard to take a solid stance on...but the above is a pretty good summation of my feelings on the topic.

EDIT- Didn't read your post entirely. No, I haven't attended all that many wars, but those I've been to have been enough to have a stance on the topic.

Just want to add one more thing. One blaster commonly known to mess up the balance of the playing field is the RFDG ("Doomsayer"), which as we all know has been subject to a blanket ban by the mag 7. After seeing one in play at apoc, I really think that the same procedure I detailed above should be taken. Rather than an outright ban on this and other specific blaster designs, anything deamed safe should be allowed at the beginning of the day, and as the day progresses, should be weeded out based upon what seems to be dominating. If this procedure were taken, I honestly don't think that doomsayers would have been kicked out at apoc.

EDIT 2- Just another example. Your hopper clip w/ +bow could be used by anyone else and not be nearly as effective as it was in your hands. Now, if it had been blanket banned, or the darts had been restricted, we wouldn't know that. However, if the individual using it got a chance to at the beginning of the day, it would be understood that it wasn't /too/ good.

Edited by diamondbacknf1626, 25 October 2009 - 12:49 PM.

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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#3 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:04 PM

EDIT 2- Just another example. Your hopper clip w/ +bow could be used by anyone else and not be nearly as effective as it was in your hands. Now, if it had been blanket banned, or the darts had been restricted, we wouldn't know that. However, if the individual using it got a chance to at the beginning of the day, it would be understood that it wasn't /too/ good.


The hopper clip is the most unbalanced thing to ever come out of nerf. Because of the design, it makes diddle guns even better, and doesn't work quite so well on the more mediocre guns (BBB for example).

A hopper on my BBBB can spit out 8 100' shots in around 9 seconds. Add a flap-type check valve to it and reloading is even easier than with a ball valve: I can reload all 8 in the clip in maybe 11 seconds.

If we don't want to go about limiting effective dart range, then we should probably limit any 100'+ gun to 4 shots before reloading.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 25 October 2009 - 01:06 PM.

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#4 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:21 PM

If we don't want to go about limiting effective dart range, then we should probably limit any 100'+ gun to 4 shots before reloading.


The problem with that is that it gets into what I was saying before, regarding getting too specific about gun bans other than for safety reasons. I completely understand what you're getting at with the hopper clip (I'm gonna have to get one of those...sounds insane), and with things like that, sure, they may have to just be outright banned. But guns like ryan's 3k, RFDGs, and the like, those should be done case by case after the person has actually used it for a round or two. It shouldn't get to the point of "Oh damn, that thing has 8 barrels? How far does it shoot? 100+'? Banned." There should be some sort of trial time, where the attendies and host of the war can feel it out, and see whether or not they're cool with the person using it all day.

With the hopper clip though, apparently it's just too good, and doesn't exactly appear to take skill to make, so maybe that deserves a ban.
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#5 Blacksunshine

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 01:59 PM

When the darts hit with such power that they pose a real threat of injury.
ROF through engineering either of basic design of the blaster or through the creation of its owner should not cause a blaster to be banned unless they are so effective as to disrupt the equality of the playing field average. That can only be assessed through its allowance for a round or two.

Edited by Blacksunshine, 25 October 2009 - 02:02 PM.

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#6 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 02:03 PM

When the darts hit with such power that they pose a real threat of injury.


That's generally the way the midwest goes. But then our wars end up being the 100+ guys running around and wiping the floor with dudes who use anything that shoots less than +bow ranges.

The last few Chicago wars, I haven't seen a single round victory by someone who didn't have a +bow or near-equivalent blaster.
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#7 k9turrent

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 02:09 PM

Well everyone in the current Canadian nerf scene are already dealing with the confrontation of about 5 RFSG and we I dont don't exactly worried about the hazard of injury. Like we have a Titan, Overhauled 3k pistol, Big blasts as well as the Doomsayer commonly on the field, but I doubt we are really going to restrict a gun just because it's too powerful or has a high ROF.

In my own opinion, those are actually thinking of restricting guns/equipment. Come visit us Canadians for one of our wars and it might change your minds.

Edit:

The last few Chicago wars, I haven't seen a single round victory by someone who didn't have a +bow or near-equivalent blaster.


I have won a couple rounds with a DTB.

Ie. Yesterday in a Wingman round, I personally took out about 10 lives before my partner died, and I later was the second last team left against FA's team who both had one life each, so I gave up cause logically, it wouldn't work cause they where beside a lot of cover where I didn't have any. But that DTB still got to second place... You don't need a high range gun to be good at nerfing. It helps, but you don't need it.

Edited by k9turrent, 25 October 2009 - 02:15 PM.

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QUOTE View Post

That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


HOLY CRAP!

FU ALL

#8 Aquinas

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 02:55 PM

diamondback said a lot of great things; and I also had thought about a "stefan weight regulation" that Ryan proposed, but, admittedly, it would be close to impossible to enforce (people love their darts too much). I personally employ Slug-style, single #6 washer darts knowing that it won't be shot as far in more powerful blasters, yet they're incredibly easy to make, and the felt tips are a great courtesy for those folks I'll be shooting at, knowing and accepting that same courtesy might not be returned. I can, after all, only control my own actions.

While this conversation has took place before here on NH (I had came across a few from years past; I ghost-read this site for two whole years before applying for membership), technology, for a lack of a better term, certainly came a long way as Ryan said. I felt that people like Slug, Carbon and Forsaken really led the charge a few years back in popularizing homemades and modifications, continuing the efforts of folks like Boltsniper, 3DBBQ, Ompa, Zero, and so on. I still consider Boltsniper's SCAR-N to be the pinnacle of homemades, but seriously, how many of us have the tools and know-how to replicate that? Yet look at the homemade and modification picture threads now compared to a few years ago; I feel that the skills and techniques of the community in general steadfastly improved over time, rather than a few bright spots and then various pieces of plastic wrapped around with duck tape (just consider the progression of the Guru, for example). Times HAD changed, and this issue merits discussion.

Most of us fling foam to have fun; there's fun in the personal sense, yet there's also fun in the collective sense. I'm mostly referring hereafter to the latter. While I certainly agree that the war organizer should lead the way in determining ground rules regarding blaster usage, perhaps the local community should also contribute on how they'd essentially like to be shot at. Now, it is obvious that each local community (be it the various sectors in the Northeast, Southeast, the Midwest, the Northwest or California) has their own distinctive "flavors," so to speak, so this "community contribution" thing will manifest very differently depending on the location. It might not manifest at all in some places. It might be messy at first. It all depends on what your definition of "community" is. Are people just dumb morons that need to be told what to do every time? Can people learn and gradually improve? Can there be a level of trust, respect and compromise within that community? We'd all have different answers, for sure. Time, efficiency and the number of attendees are also factors to be considered. Yet instead of having the host making the calls all the time, perhaps the local community can also contribute in certain aspects as well.

In order there to be fun, there needs to be a certain balance and "fairness" (whatever that means!) within the gameplay. Organizers do their best with teams to ensure opportunities of competition on all sides. In short (which I'm awful at doing), every participant needs to have a chance. They need to feel it, know it, and here's the hard part, actually have it. We're all outstanding at providing chances for ourselves, but perhaps we can do better in doing that for others. In addition to the organizers, we can also police ourselves a little. Ryan posting this article is a great start. Everybody loves to dominate and "diddle," (as Zorn has eloquently mentioned) but those of us with any foresight knows that it gets old really quick, even for the one who's getting all the shots with the big gun (if you can do that with a Nitefinder? Different story). Even in the blasters that we make and/or modify: just because you've made it, doesn't mean that you have to use it in a war. Maybe don't put 6 additional springs in your knockoff Doomsayer if you intend on using it in a war. Maybe don't plug the pumps of those BBBBs. It's hard, but as Zorn suggested, maybe limit the capacity of your RSCBs and clips and magazines.

This is meant to be unappealing to self; you're doing this for someone else. You'd be giving that newbie with a semi-modified Stormfire a little bit more chance than you otherwise would. That newbie might actually enjoy the experience, knowing that he/she has room for improvement, and becomes a more active member of the community. I reckon that'd be a good thing for most of us.

There's a child-like aspect to flinging foam that I think most of us appreciate; that's why we're wielding brightly-colored plastic toys rather than playing airsoft and/or paintball (though some of us still do, nothing wrong with that). Sometimes we may need a pistol round or two to run around a bit and remind ourselves what that feels like. It's worth the heart attack and/or stroke. For the record, I love pistol rounds, maybe a little too much for my community's sake. Teamwork, strategy and execution becomes paramount in those scenarios rather than "how many long-range shots one can get off before the other guy has to reload." Not to disregard the skill required to wield and operate a Doomsayer or a +bow with a RSCB slapped onto it: but you get my point.

Lastly, here's an interesting article by the Team Fortress 2 team regarding the Sharpshooter (substituting for another word) unlockables a few months back. Worth a read:

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#9 Guest_Just Some Bob_*

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 03:12 PM

I'm going to keep building what I can build, and using it responsibly. Our wars (as long as I have a say in it) are going to keep banning only behaviors, not blasters, and only for safety reasons. I have received worse welts from NiteFinders than I have ever given anyone with a Jobar. But I suppose my opinion could change.

The concept of a blaster that is primed by the shooter and which shoots half inch foam darts being "unfair" is still foreign to me. I have seen a person dominate a few rounds, but I have yet to see anything dominate a nerf war. I have seen blasters that perhaps could, but they were powered by gas, pre-pressurized air, or electricity. But I suppose it could happen, and I recognize that some are claiming it already has. I do agree that such an unbalance would be contrary to the principle of "the most fun for the most people" which should be important to war organizers.

But, to get into piddly mechanical details and try to write rules that can be measured, blaster characteristics to be allowed or disallowed ... other than for safety reasons I just don't see that discussion ever being a productive use of anyone's hobby time. Except maybe for those few who get their fun out of "rule lawyering" and I'm not so sure we should care what they think. Technological innovation is an important part of our hobby, and this hopper clip brings only a cool new combination, not some Earth-shattering breakthrough, just as the Doomsayer before it, and imaseoulman's "unfair" LPA tank/stock before that were simply highly effective combinations of established components.

If such things really become a problem, there will simply be more call for limited rounds like Gunslinger. And while I have seen a few people post that they're worried such rounds will completely take over ... some of those posts are from five or more years ago, so it's been going on far too long for that worry to seem realistic any more. People have been dissatisfied by the mix of rounds forever. All they need to do is host more wars themselves - problem solved.

If we try to stifle nerf innovation, the only losers will be nerfers. All of us.

I like the suggestion that if a consensus of attendees would prefer a dominating player stop using a particular blaster, they should ask. I would suggest that this be implemented as a ritual surrender. Those who feel they have been dominated by an object should approach the person they are petitioning with all hands empty and held high in the air, chanting "you rule." Because clearly that's what has happened, and the winner deserves acknowledgment. Award a prize, design a t-shirt ... whatever! Definitely post your congratulations later in any wrap-up threads. Acknowledge it ... and then get on with everyone's day.

Edited by Just Some Bob, 25 October 2009 - 03:14 PM.

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#10 rork

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 05:02 PM

This reminds me of my favorite argument against the doomsayer: it's the only nerf gun that enables the wielder to use spray and pray type tactics, with multiple fast shots being directed at a target, at long range, without needing to reacquire a sight picture, much less reload. Which I think is a pretty gay way to nerf, but not really ban-worthy, unless it becomes an issue of a fun-retardant gun.

That being said: The concept that a customized nerf gun should be fair is absolute dogshit. This hobby is about skill, and the way skill is developed is through a neverending contest of technological and tactical oneupmanship. I don't want a gun as good as the other guy's; I want to have a better gun, just like I want to be a better shot, and a better dodger. We don't make the fast guys run around wearing a backpack full of rocks, even though sheer speed can win a round far more decisively than any weapon.

Down here, the Next Big Thing seems to be pump-replaced Big Blasts. They're cheap, safe apart from the kind of douchebaggery that makes any gun dangerous (I've collected and seen more welts dealt out from NFs and 2Ks than 4bs), and effective. Hell, Ben uses one that wears a rearloading tek 10 turret, and both Zax and Groove are familiar with them. I like to be challenged, and frankly, any nerfer worth his salt who is confronted by superior weaponry should react with excitement. The first time I played against Zax and his Zaxblast, I got royally pwned. I was outmatched technically as well as tactically. If I hadn't been, I wouldn't have been so inspired to try to top it. The fact of the matter is that my guns actually discourage potshot tactics by removing the long-ass reload time normally required by 4Bs, which I would say is a good thing. We also use all slug darts; my own 4B probably shoots 120 max, with Ben's infamous rapecannon topping out at less than 100.

I get my share of kills, but I honestly feel that it is my tactics and accuracy, far more than my gun. At FANO, most of my kills came from one or 2 careful shots, not a barrage of foam. Was my crew's weaponry the best there? Yep. And I hope that the newer nerfers were inspired to make mods that have real war applicability. At some point, we may have to ban something that enables people to slide by without skill, but none of us really feel we're there. Short of an HPA powered 100+ semiauto, I can't honesty say that there's anything that I wouldn't go up against for any reason other than liking my hide.
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#11 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 05:15 PM

Which I think is a pretty gay way to nerf, but not really ban-worthy, unless it becomes an issue of a fun-retardant gun.

*********************************

This hobby is about skill, and the way skill is developed is through a neverending contest of technological and tactical oneupmanship. I don't want a gun as good as the other guy's; I want to have a better gun, just like I want to be a better shot, and a better dodger. We don't make the fast guys run around wearing a backpack full of rocks, even though sheer speed can win a round far more decisively than any weapon.

*********************************

(I've collected and seen more welts dealt out from NFs and 2Ks than 4bs),

*********************************

I like to be challenged, and frankly, any nerfer worth his salt who is confronted by superior weaponry should react with excitement.

*********************************

I get my share of kills, but I honestly feel that it is my tactics and accuracy, far more than my gun.

*********************************

Short of an HPA powered 100+ semiauto, I can't honesty say that there's anything that I wouldn't go up against for any reason other than liking my hide.



Just signalled out a few points that explain my thoughts exactly.

Another thing...I personally am strongly against dart restrictions. That is, of course, unless it weighs more than the standard 1/4" slingshot weight or 3/0. That causes hassle for anyone who...say...just bought a load of slingshot weights... :unsure: . In all seriousness though, at that point, it just creates difficulty for at least some percentage of those out there. Personally, I feel that if we stick by what I quoted above, this won't really be an issue.
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#12 TantumBull

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 07:44 PM

The only community-wide ban on guns I'd support is a ban of HPA tanks, or anything that allows one to store energy used for propulsion prior to actually nerfing. Banning them definitely limits the ability to get the "paintball" effect with nerf guns. Semi auto, high range nerf = paintball. Other than that, I don't really care.

Edited by TantumBull, 25 October 2009 - 07:45 PM.

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#13 CA13

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 07:57 PM

I believe anything that can rapid-fire over 20 shots in a tank or anything that may shoot 150ft+ indoors (so there is no wind effect) should be a no-no.
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#14 A side of nerf

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 08:12 PM

Those running around with overpowered guns are naturally taken care of by opposing players working together to take them down, that's how its always been where I play.

Ask anyone down here who has played with that crazy redneck and a modded BB gun.

That is why in the south, we let you throw anything at us.
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#15 Split

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 09:01 PM

No, I did not read this whole thread, and nor do I have any intention of doing so.

One thing I wanted to chime in on:

This hobby is about skill...


Last I checked, it's actually about having fun.

And for me, that's completely gone. It's so close to a retarded version of tournament paintball, it's not even funny. In fact, it's a bit obnoxious.

I'm looking into running some stock class stuff around my school and maybe some small invitationals, but beyond that, no thanks. Just within the time from when I've joined and now, the game has already changed so much, and not just with the "technology." The average nerfer's mindset is so much more competitive, there's no laughs and shits and "holy shit, I'm running around with a toy gun." If we're going to try and fix the problem, we should define the problem as much as we can, and I believe that's where it starts.

Edit: Oh, for the record, limiting dart weight is the best way to hinder blasters' power levels. There's nothing as easily manipulated per energy output. Weight plays a hugely determining factor in not only energy efficiency from the blaster, but in the aerodynamics of each shot. As for regulating it as a war host, it wouldn't be a problem as long as the honor code for the war works. And therein (again) lies the problem. The mindset.

Edited by Split, 25 October 2009 - 09:05 PM.

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Teehee.

#16 BustaNinja

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 09:30 PM

Actually, a switch to megas would be worth while. I mean, yeah, rebarreling all your guns would suck, and it would eliminate alot of turrets, but maybe then we could actually have some sort of marksmanship. The problem with Micros, is that most peoples suck. They never really hit their intended target, so pot shots become the Nerfing norm.

Megas, on the otherhand are easy to make, and offer (honestly) not a huge drop in performance, but a MAJOR increase in accuracy. Its simply the whole "Bigger projectile" thing.
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#17 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:41 PM

I mean, yeah, rebarreling all your guns would suck, and it would eliminate alot of turrets,


That right there, along with the added fact that lots of people already have stocks of micros and or rolls of micro-sized foam turns myself and probably a lot of other people off to that idea. Otherwise, sure, it'd be cool, but practically, it's just really not ideal...
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#18 Homestarune

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:46 PM

Since this whole topic pretty much shows how much Nerfhaven is failing, I'm going to copy and paste some stuff, I know that my intended audience doesn't give a damn, but what the hell.

This is EXACTLY what is going on, and is why so many people are commenting about breakages in post-war threads. The problem is that you have an influx of new members that are being led to believe that these super powerful guns make wars inherently better. The reality is that they don't. With the current attitude of oneupmanship, things are going to get to the point where the dynamic shifts even further and the best guns will all be homemades. In fact, as I think about it, most of the best guns either are homemades, or are hybrids. People have engineered and machined guns to the level that they've squeezed all the potential out of it. The reality is that we're not playing with plastic toys anymore.

People bitch about the most asinine things these days; so what if my gun doesn't meet your bullshit definition of "clean"? Guess what NIC, it doesn't matter, you're not better than anyone else because your brightly colored plastic toy looks prettier than everyone elses. People have come to expect guns to look like CaptainSlug made them. That's a completely bullshit standard to set.

Most of these arguments are due to the current community attitude. At the point where people have even larger RSCB/inline clips, and hit even greater ranges, I'm going to just quit, I'm not interested in playing speedball with nerf guns. The hopper clip is a prime example of this. What we're seeing is the compounded results of oneupmanship from the last few years. Take a reality check, if we're not there already, at the current rate we will be there soon. We already have the attitude. The dick waving contest is so ridiculous it's laughable if you take step back and look at what goes on here.

There have been a few things that have brought about this shift in the dynamics of how people play. From what I can tell, before the N-Strike line, no one really put all that much effort into modifying their blasters, and as a result there weren't really any spring guns besides the crossbow that were really pushing 100'. There were no 2k airflow mods, there were no 1500's with foot long brass barrels, and guns didn't rear load. Either your guns were single shot and still not quite hitting 100', or they were turreted and getting equal or lesser ranges. The RCSB system existed, but it was never heavily employed. Even if you did use it, it wasn't giving you much greater ranges than a normal 2k with a turret. As a result of all this, people were forced to play much closer. You can make a gun the night before the war that can do that. Because of this, it also was a whole lot less competitive. Guess what, nerf isn't a competitive sport, if you think so, play airsoft or paintball instead. Hell, some of you are already doing just that with your "nerf" guns.

That people didn't have to put as much effort into their guns was a crucial part of the dynamics. Now if you want something that preforms on par with everyone else, you either have to be able to machine and modify your blasters, or you have to drop over a hundred dollars on a +bow. This is part of the reason that Apoc had so many people with 4Bs. The 4B is really the only gun on the market that the average guy that is new to the hobby can pick up and use at a war and be successful with. Long term, this becomes detrimental.

I've gone up against someone who was using dual CPVC'd NFs, the player was quite good, he could dodge shots, and was quick on his feet and was accurate. However, I don't think he got more than a handful of hits on me the entire day. It wasn't because I was a far better player than him, it was because I was using a 1500 with foot long brass barrels and a nice dart/barrel fit. He was completely outclassed not by my abilities, but by my weaponry. You can argue that nerf has changed and that the technology has evolved. However, the technology has not evolved, it has instead mutated into something completely different than what it began as.
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#19 rork

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:51 PM

My bottom line: Fighting progress is just pointless. Will there be minor regional adjustments? Sure. But a perfect 60-70' one-dart kill is more of a rush than any spray-and-pray stock war will ever be. And really, the answer to any and all dart-related issues is to switch to slug darts, which are consistently safer, cheaper, less painful, and more accurate, while traveling shorter distances overall.
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#20 diamondbacknf1626

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 11:25 PM

I'm seriously beginning to think that Ryan did this just to start a mosh of opinionated arguments. I have to say though, out of anyone, I agree with rork's ideas the most. My only disagreement is in the realm of dart limitations. Maybe this is because I just acquired/made over 500 non-slug-style stefans...but either way. The point still stands...those who have the supplies to make or already have non-slug-style darts would be hindered by that constraint.

Either way, it is pointless to fight progress. Each situation should be take case by case, war by war, host by host. The bottom line is, we're not playing a legitament, legalized sport here. We don't need a national ruleset. We're friends running around shooting modified toy guns at people. The minute we start to make loads of rules and conditions other than for safety reasons is the minute we start to take away the fun of it all, in my eyes.
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QUOTE(TxNerfer @ Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM) View Post

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

#21 Ryan201821

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 11:36 PM

I'm seriously beginning to think that Ryan did this just to start a mosh of opinionated arguments.

For the most part, yes.
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#22 dizzyduck

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 11:40 PM

I'll keep this quick.

This hobby is about fun, at least for me. "Fun" means different things to different people. For me, it might mean running around trying to see how many kills I can get with a stock Stinging Scarab. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

I say powerful blasters become a problem when they start infringing on other peoples' ability to have fun, whether that means risk of injury (getting hit at 10' with a tank-expanded singled Big Blast was not fun) or through sheer domination by one player because of overwhelming blaster power (everyone being killed by one player using one particularly powerful blaster would probably not be very fun). Settle the issue then. Otherwise, team up and take the sucker down.
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Duck off.
Art & Stuff

#23 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 11:58 PM

I've gone up against someone who was using dual CPVC'd NFs, the player was quite good, he could dodge shots, and was quick on his feet and was accurate. However, I don't think he got more than a handful of hits on me the entire day. It wasn't because I was a far better player than him, it was because I was using a 1500 with foot long brass barrels and a nice dart/barrel fit. He was completely outclassed not by my abilities, but by my weaponry.

^
This

I say powerful blasters become a problem when they start infringing on other peoples' ability to have fun

^
And this


To everyone expressing skepticism: If you guys aren't having issues with over powerful blasters, then don't worry about it. Whether or not this is a problem is ultimately the opinion of the host and the local community.

If your local nerf community does find power creep to be impinging on fun, then you as the war organizer will have to make some decisions about what he allows at wars. I've considered the following solutions:

Ban Blasters
Similar to what is done with Doomsayers, Singled Titans, and SM5ks in a lot of regions. I personally don't like this solution, since it stifles creativity.

Ammunition weight limits
Limiting the weights used in the darts is a sure-fire way to cap ranges. Using stock darts would further limit ranges, if you wanted to be that drastic (as well as limiting the effectiveness of inline clip systems). I'm considering implementing this at a future Minnesota war.

Power limits
For example, a 100ft cap on single-shot blasters, and a 70ft cap on blasters with auto-rotating turrets. This would probably be hard to enforce.
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#24 Guest_Just Some Bob_*

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 12:01 AM

Death of nerfing predicted ... film at eleven.

Really now?

As I had mentioned, and as Homestarune has now actually linked to, this exact "argument" has been going on for quite a few years already. A longer time than a lot of us have even been in the hobby.

Yet, the hobby hasn't evaporated. I'm still having fun. People around me appear to be having fun. The people in our CAFF group have been having fun, as were the group of local kids who saw us and ran home to get their own blasters and join us. As far as I could see, the 70+ people at Armageddon this year were having a great deal of fun. All the war videos posted lately sure seem to be filled with people having fun. If this hobby is "dead," then I say hell, let's play some zombies!
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#25 umpshaplapa

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 12:17 AM

I agree with Bob. I haven't been to a war where someone has no fun all day.

I think the only time a blaster should be banned is if it's unsafe. Or if a large amount of people are complaining that the user is "too good" with it.
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QUOTE(Talio @ Jun 29 2009, 01:50 PM) View Post

i got a black belt in noob banning in 2004.



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