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Raider Cs-35: Overview / Overhaul

AR removal, sound reduction, double spiring, more

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#1 SPV999

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:09 AM

I recently acquired a Raider at Target. Many of you probably know more then you care to about it already, so Iíll jump in and field questions as they come.

In the mean time, Iíve gone Raider happy :)

Price: $30 USD
Length: 21Ē
Weight: 3lb-ish fully loaded
Comfy rating: Very comfy to hold and fire :)
Stock ranges: 25í
Dart capacity: 35 round drum clip / or / 10 round clip
Attachments: 2 N-Strike rail systems and adjustable stock
Power: Spring
Rate of Fire: 35 rounds in 12 seconds
Firing modes: Manual or semi-auto

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--== 35 Round Drum Overview ==--

I didnít even think about interest in the drum clip till Arconious asked.

Pics:
Font:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2386.jpg

Back:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2388.jpg

Loaded:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2392.jpg

Slightly unloaded (so you can see the rotation):
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2393.jpg

The drum is about 11Ē from the edge of the drum to the end of the clip.
Loaded, it weighs almost as much as the gun itself.
Uses a constant force spring to rotate (thanks pjotrkuh / Just Some Bob)

The black knob in the center is a jam release. It wiggles the entire mechanism. How effective it is, I have no idea as itís never jammed (pretty good considering Iíve emptied all 35 rounds over 10 times already).

The drum fits nicely into the Recon. I donít have a Longshot to attach it to, but it claims to fit on the box.

It actually feels a little weird on the Raider, because it mounts on the side and make it side heavy. However, the high rate of fire and relatively low range make it necessary. It does mount securely though, every bit as secure as a regular clip in a Recon. But if you want to use a regular clip, you can.

It feels a bit big for the Recon. I keep thinking Iím going to hit it with my hand when I cock it. It would probably fit well in a Longshot, but your boltsled will probably break before you get all 35 rounds through. :P

--== Stock Overview ==--

I know, a section for the stock, this is getting out of hand. But there are a couple things about the stock that I wanted to share.

Stock:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2412.jpg

Opened:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2409.jpg

Taken apart:
http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2411.jpg

It has four settings, with 1Ē between settings, only the last and full extension is actually worth using.

The stock is the same length as the Recon stock, about 10 ĹĒ when fully extended.
Unlike the Recon stock, itís very sturdy. You can actually lean into it without it bending.
Itís fully compatible with the Recon, but old style Reconís ďARMEDĒ bar wont fit inside because of a little wall about 4Ē back (easily fixed. See ďFixingĒ the Stock section later).

Because of the long hollow bar, the first thing I thought of was integrations. The bar is 1 ľĒ inner diameter. More then enough for an Air Tech 2000 tank, a Secret Shot Pocket Blaster (Secret Strike), or, with a little work for the trigger, even a Nitefinder. Just... glue the stock in place so you donít accidently collapse it and crush your integration.

--== Step 1: Disassembly ==--

The Raider does not have any plastic ďweldsĒ or clamp pieces, so there is no cutting involved in taking it apart.

If you assemble the Raider before opening it up, youíll have to attach the clip holder. It snaps in and thereís no way to get it back off. Donít worry though, it doesnít hide any screws.

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First remove the two screws on the back gray piece (stock clip and priming guard) and the five screws on the front priming handle. Thereís no spring in the front handle, so nothing will jump out at you.

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In no order, take out the remaining 14 screws on the main body.

A couple things may spring out (like the trigger, that isnít held down by anything), but it wont be anything major.

--== Step 2: Internals! ==--

What a lot a people are waiting for... high-res internal pics! Due to their size, Iíll just post links.

Overall:

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2355.jpg

Close up (at rest):

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2356.jpg

Close up (cocked):

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2358.jpg

Trigger relaxed:

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2365.jpg

Trigger pulled:

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2364.jpg

Itís very similar to the Recon, only not quite as complex and not NEARLY as hard to get back together.

Itís been a while since Iíve opened a Recon, but the spring appears to be roughly the same size, but weaker.

Compared to a Recon spring. Notice there isnít much difference other then the Raider spring is shinier:

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2381.jpg

Compared to a #49 Ace spring (Nitefinder replica):

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2360.jpg

However, the plunger catch and trigger release are much stronger then most guns Iíve opened recently, making double springing a very real possibility with little if any reinforcement. Though, for the little extra range it might get, the wear on the parts would be high, so Iím not sure if it would be worth it or not depending on how you implement it.

--== Step 3: Air Restrictor Removal ==--

Now down to something real. Take out the four silver screws by the plunger.

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With them gone, you should be able to lift the entire mechanism out of the gun. The air restrictor is just like the Recon, its in the plunger tube.

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Grab a ĹĒ wood boring drill bit and go to town. Drill it out till you can see straight through.

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Reassemble the mechanism, using the internal pics as guides if need be.
Increases range by about 10í with stock streamlines, though Iím noticing pretty good fishtailing, so if you were to use weighted darts you might get even more.

--== Step 4: Plugging a random hole ==--

As I was inspecting the boltsled/plunger assembly, I noticed a small hole in the side of the plunger tube.

Posted Image

Iím pretty sure Recons have this hole as well, and I looked for one on here earlier but I missed it.

Seal it with hot glue or some epoxy. Let it dry, and sand it down level as the dart clip has to slide over it.

--== Step 5: Priming Bar Reinforcement ==--

Thanks to RVMVTVProductions asking about the strength of the priming bar, I noticed that, while the bar itself is very strong and I donít believe it to be in need of reinforcement, the little screw that holds it to the boltsled does.

Take the screw off.

Posted Image

Note all the void space in the chamber. Fill it up with your epoxy of choice

(hot glue would ďprobablyĒ work, considering stock I donít think thereís much a chance of this breaking, but with bumping into it constantly while messing with the internals, I wont take any chances. Thereís no reason not to use epoxy)

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REMEMBER that the end of the bar has to be facing away from the boltsled (see internal pics). Screw it back down and let it sit.

--== Step 6: Cushioning the Plunger ==--

One of the first things youíll notice is the loud plunger head smashing into plastic. Once you take out the air restrictors, itíll make you grit your teeth just waiting for something to snap.

Best way to fix this is to cushion the plunger with a small ring of foam. Now, the plunger coming all the way down against the seal is important to the reloading mechanism, so the foam has be very thin and fairly firm.

I still have my Wayne Tech Tri-Fire Blaster darts sitting around, and they are perfect size and density. Cut it to size and carefully glue it just above the o-ring.

Posted Image

--== Step 7: Sound Reduction ==--

Even with foam on the plunger, thereís a fair amount of rattling and vibrations. Given the range of the gun, sneaking up on people is going to be pretty important as youíre not hitting them from a distance.

Cut up your favorite foam backer rod and glue it to anything that doesnít move.

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--== Step 8: Removing the Priming Lock ==--

This is totally Echnalaid doing. Removing this lock will allow you to load the gun even if itís already cocked.

Before removing this, after you cock it, you cant move the front handle until you fire it, meaning if you cock it without loading a dart, you have to fire it before re-priming it.

Once you remove this, you can re-load a dart even after cocking it. Thereís no worry about breaking anything by accidentally pulling the trigger either, as you cant pull the trigger when the boltsled breech is open.

Simply remove the piece circled here:

http://img44.imagesh...06/img2400c.jpg

Take out the screws, and it supposedly just falls out.

--== Step 9: ďFixingĒ the Stock ==--

The stock is one of my most favorite parts of this gun. Whatís wrong with the stock? It has this little wall partway back that blocks the ďARMEDĒ bar on old style Recons (like mine :( ). It also prevents the clever double springing method by DeceitfulSteve.

Fixing this is very simple. Get a 1Ē wood boring drill bit, rev it up and shove it down the stockís shaft.

I donít have a ďbeforeĒ pic (thought I did, but I cant find it), so hereís the after at least:

Posted Image

--== Step 10: Double Springing ==--

I owe this section to DeceitfulSteveís method used on the Recon. Alright, my final mod on this gun. At first, I was thinking +Bow spring, but it was way too hard. I couldnít even use it with the Recon (which has more torque in the cocking).

Finally settled on a Ace #49 spring (or Nitefinder spring).

Cut a small piece of ĺĒ PVC and sand down the center till you can easily fit the spring inside. Put a PVC end cap on one side to seal it (I used a reducer, since itís what I had on hand). Sand the entire thing down till it fits snuggly inside the stock.

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2413.jpg

Push the entire thing into the stock all the way to the wall that we sanded out.

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2418.jpg

Cut a hole in the back of the plunger guard on the Raider till itís pretty much smooth with the side (so the spring doesnít get hung up).

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2416.jpg

Put the stock back together, put your spring inside (you can glue it if you want), and snap it onto the back!

This should increase ranges 10-15í with Streamlines.
Or at least it did mine.


---

Add some awesome LEDs on the front, and a switch on the handle,

http://i53.photobuck...er/IMG_2420.jpg

and Iíve done all I can think of with this gun.

My final thoughts on this gun is it would be a good all-round weapon, for rounds that youíre not quite sure what youíre getting yourself into. It doesnít have much range, but enough to get by; isnít horribly accurate, but it can be fired very, very quickly and in a very controlled fashion; and itís fast to reload (assuming you have another clip pre-loaded).


Questions? Comments? Flames? Witty one liners?

Edited by SPV999, 12 October 2009 - 03:53 PM.

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#2 Captain

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 10:37 AM

Somewhere, a person on here said that you could simply pull apart the breech assembly and the AR's would pop out. Maybe theirs was a lemon, but did you/could you try this?
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#3 SPV999

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

Somewhere, a person on here said that you could simply pull apart the breech assembly and the AR's would pop out. Maybe theirs was a lemon, but did you/could you try this?



There are two seams on the breech with catches where it looks like you can pull it apart, but mine has small amount of glue in said seams that would make it very hard and overall not a good idea to pull apart.

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#4 Heat Signature

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:38 PM

If you really want to go at the ar's through that seam, I would suggest using pipe cutters in a similar manner as you would for a longshot.
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#5 Liam

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:40 PM

Where is the Target you bought this from? They aren't in mine yet...
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#6 RVMVTVProductions

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 12:46 PM

Well, now I have something to do...

I believe you mean that the stock doesn't work on a 1st Gen (or something like that) Recon with the "ARMED" tube, since it seems the plunger tube cover is the same as the currently sold Recon.

Can you give us a quick overview on the strength of the metal priming bar, and how much space there is to reinforce it? It seems so... weak.
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#7 SPV999

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:13 PM

If you really want to go at the ar's through that seam, I would suggest using pipe cutters in a similar manner as you would for a longshot.


Yeah, but I would be worried about the integrity of it after you reassemble it. Not to mention if it was just a little crooked, the entire gun wouldnt work anymore.

Where is the Target you bought this from? They aren't in mine yet...


They arent officially at mine either. You have to find a clerk that doesnt read the "Do not sell till Sept. 4th" line on the box.

Well, now I have something to do...

I believe you mean that the stock doesn't work on a 1st Gen (or something like that) Recon with the "ARMED" tube, since it seems the plunger tube cover is the same as the currently sold Recon.

Can you give us a quick overview on the strength of the metal priming bar, and how much space there is to reinforce it? It seems so... weak.


Oh that's right, new Recons have that plunger cover thing. I always forget about that because I've never seen one first hand.

There's not a huge amount of room to reinforce the priming bar without removing some of the screw holes in the shell. If you dont mind loosing some screws, there's ample room after a little dremeling. That said, the bar is very solid and sturdy. I can apply a fair amount of force before it even starts to flex, far more then what's needed to cock the stock gun. It's about 5/32-6/32" thick.

--

On another note, I got some springs from Ace, and am going to try to semi-double spring it using the same clever method as on the Recon (adding a spring in the stock).

Edited by SPV999, 07 August 2009 - 01:15 PM.

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#8 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:26 PM

You mentioned that the recon spring is similarly sized, but stronger. Is it possible to replace the Raider's spring with a recon spring?
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#9 bigred1rifleman

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:37 PM

How much range are you getting with yours after AR removal? Because mine gets just a little bit over AR removed recon range with AR removal. I think I bought a bad one...

Thanks
Finn
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#10 Chessler

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:07 PM

Posted Image


That's one hell of a Pokemon blanket.

On another note, have you got a Recon on which you could put the stock attachment? I'd like to see how that looks.
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#11 Bedhed117

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:15 PM

Dang that priming bar looks weak! You should try to reinforce that thing before adding a stronger spring.
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#12 SPV999

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:39 PM

Updated first post with some minor things.

You mentioned that the recon spring is similarly sized, but stronger. Is it possible to replace the Raider's spring with a recon spring?


Yes. I tried this, but I'm getting a lot of fishtailing even after just taking out the ARs. I need to weight some streamlines (my stefans dont fight tight enough in the barrel) to get any true range enhancement measurements anymore.

How much range are you getting with yours after AR removal? Because mine gets just a little bit over AR removed recon range with AR removal. I think I bought a bad one...

Thanks
Finn


About another 10', roughly the same as a Recon. This isnt surprising, as the internals are pretty much identical in operation to that of a Recon.

That's one hell of a Pokemon blanket.

On another note, have you got a Recon on which you could put the stock attachment? I'd like to see how that looks.


Gotta catch 'em all!

Posted Image

My Recon is semi-disassembled, but it doesnt hurt the look. The stock is long enough that it actually make the Recon almost comfy.

Dang that priming bar looks weak! You should try to reinforce that thing before adding a stronger spring.


See RVMVTVProductions post.
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#13 assasin492k

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

what are the pros and cons of the Raider
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#14 CA13

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 05:08 PM

what are the pros and cons of the Raider


Pros: has a huge ass clip

Cons: lots of cash needed to get one

What does your name mean anyway "assasin"?
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Doing this as I speak. I have no idea when I got it...my DAD got it some 15 years ago, but that doesn't matter. Anyways, it keeps jerking around all over the place. I try to hold it with a rag...It doesn't look like...much.

#15 Heat Signature

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 05:32 PM

If you really want to go at the ar's through that seam, I would suggest using pipe cutters in a similar manner as you would for a longshot.


Yeah, but I would be worried about the integrity of it after you reassemble it. Not to mention if it was just a little crooked, the entire gun wouldnt work anymore.


Posted Image

That's why you would glue the piece shown in the picture above back into the bolt with something on the order of zap-a-gap or epoxy.
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#16 Arconious

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 06:19 PM

My god, My aunt gave me that blanket for christmas at least 10 years ago.

On another note, it looks a bit more sturdy than the Recon, maybe its plunger won't break as easily.

And I have a couple questions, I'm assuming a normal LS/Recon clip will work with it, as the drum clip seems to be a normal clip with an extension on it, but will it work with the LS/Recon? It doesn't look like it'll work with the LS as its sides are thicker, and the drum might hit it, but it seems like it'll work with the recon, will it?

And I'd like a good look at its magazine anyway, could you post a couple pics of it? I'm a bit curious on how they put it together.
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#17 Renegademilitia15

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 07:05 PM

Dude, if you've seen any box pictures of the raider, on the back it says that the clips are interchangeable.

Anywayz, nice review. I'm really excited about getting one of these.
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#18 SPV999

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:27 PM

My god, My aunt gave me that blanket for christmas at least 10 years ago.

On another note, it looks a bit more sturdy than the Recon, maybe its plunger won't break as easily.

And I have a couple questions, I'm assuming a normal LS/Recon clip will work with it, as the drum clip seems to be a normal clip with an extension on it, but will it work with the LS/Recon? It doesn't look like it'll work with the LS as its sides are thicker, and the drum might hit it, but it seems like it'll work with the recon, will it?

And I'd like a good look at its magazine anyway, could you post a couple pics of it? I'm a bit curious on how they put it together.


The clips and drums are totally interchangeable between all clipped guns.
I updated the first post with an overview :)
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#19 SonReeceSonJensen

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 08:59 PM

Ok, 9/10 (no one gets at 10) on the write up. You could have ANY content and this to-the-point no-BS style works perfect for a now-now-NOW mentality like I have.

Props. Mad ones.
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#20 Arconious

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 10:24 AM

Dude, if you've seen any box pictures of the raider, on the back it says that the clips are interchangeable.

Anywayz, nice review. I'm really excited about getting one of these.

I've seen pictures OF the raider, but I haven't seen the back of the box.

On another note, the shipment of raiders to my local store was delayed, so I didn't get a chance to get one. I knew I should have waited a week or so to go in.

EDIT: Nice job Hasbro, I'm impressed. The drum looks much sturdier than I expected, and it seems they've found a way to allow it to work without mangleing darts. Well, without mangleing them more than a normal clip would. Though, why they put Front on it in giant black letters is beyond me.

Edited by Arconious, 08 August 2009 - 10:33 AM.

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#21 SchizophrenicMC

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 02:49 PM

My god, My aunt gave me that blanket for christmas at least 10 years ago.

I'm in the same boat, man.


I'm just wondering about the catch mechanism. Do you think it'd be possible to replicate in another gun? I ask because even with good internal pics, I can't wrap my mind around a 3D object in 2D space. I don't even get how it works.
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QUOTE(NerfUK @ May 8 2009, 11:54 AM) View Post

(I forgot to take a picture of my own poppers)

QUOTE(analogkid @ May 20 2009, 10:04 PM) View Post

Every size rod you could ever want.

#22 mattscoke

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 03:04 PM

I'm just wondering about the catch mechanism. Do you think it'd be possible to replicate in another gun? I ask because even with good internal pics, I can't wrap my mind around a 3D object in 2D space. I don't even get how it works.

It is a two piece catch. I can get a picture later to describe it better. It will be tough to replicate, though.
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#23 SPV999

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 03:11 PM

I'm just wondering about the catch mechanism. Do you think it'd be possible to replicate in another gun? I ask because even with good internal pics, I can't wrap my mind around a 3D object in 2D space. I don't even get how it works.



In short, no. The tolerances for a lot of the parts are so tiny and at least one of them just floats there, if you tried to replicated it you'd end up with the same gun.

To best understand how this gun works, the best thing to do is think of a Recon. The plunger, boltsled, and cocking mechanisms are identical to a Recon. The only things that have changed are the trigger guards (that stop you from firing the gun at an inopportune moment) and the plunger catch (but only slightly to comply with the new guards).

What's probably most confusing you is what did me when I first started looking at it: the orange bar between the trigger and the catch. This is actually a trigger guard. The trigger guards are the most complex thing in this gun and a lot of what you see on the internals are simply trigger guards. The Raider uses a sort of floating guard bar that, when the gun is loaded and cocked, is held down and bridges the gap between the trigger and the catch. When it is not ready to fire, this bar just floats there, so you can pull the trigger but the plunger catch isnt moved.

... Sorry, I'm rambling.

Edited by SPV999, 08 August 2009 - 03:14 PM.

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#24 Darken

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 04:39 PM

My god, My aunt gave me that blanket for christmas at least 10 years ago.

I'm in the same boat, man.


Yeah, I have that blanket in my attic somewhere from a couple years back too.
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#25 SchizophrenicMC

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Posted 08 August 2009 - 05:33 PM

I'm just wondering about the catch mechanism. Do you think it'd be possible to replicate in another gun? I ask because even with good internal pics, I can't wrap my mind around a 3D object in 2D space. I don't even get how it works.



In short, no. The tolerances for a lot of the parts are so tiny and at least one of them just floats there, if you tried to replicated it you'd end up with the same gun.

To best understand how this gun works, the best thing to do is think of a Recon. The plunger, boltsled, and cocking mechanisms are identical to a Recon. The only things that have changed are the trigger guards (that stop you from firing the gun at an inopportune moment) and the plunger catch (but only slightly to comply with the new guards).

What's probably most confusing you is what did me when I first started looking at it: the orange bar between the trigger and the catch. This is actually a trigger guard. The trigger guards are the most complex thing in this gun and a lot of what you see on the internals are simply trigger guards. The Raider uses a sort of floating guard bar that, when the gun is loaded and cocked, is held down and bridges the gap between the trigger and the catch. When it is not ready to fire, this bar just floats there, so you can pull the trigger but the plunger catch isnt moved.

... Sorry, I'm rambling.

That was an overcomplicated way of saying "probably not."
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QUOTE(NerfUK @ May 8 2009, 11:54 AM) View Post

(I forgot to take a picture of my own poppers)

QUOTE(analogkid @ May 20 2009, 10:04 PM) View Post

Every size rod you could ever want.


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