69 replies to this topic

[Daniel Beaver]

Quote

One other thought: I haven’t used ¼” slingshot weights much at all, but isn’t that too much weight for lower-ranged springers?

Yes and no. For blasters that shoot under 60ft, they don't perform as well as single bb weighted stefans. But they work much better in higher-powered blasters (90ft+) than bb weighted stefans. I would rather err on the side of using too much weight than using too little.

[Ryan201821]

Well I think we've all agreed on most of the major aspects of dart making. I'm going to bring all my supplies for dart making with me this weekend, so if we wanted to get started this weekend, I'm game.

[Daniel Beaver]

I think it may be worth making a test batch this weekend so that everyone can use them for a bit. So far the consensus seems to be:

Foam: Dennis brand grey foam

Stretching/Heating (diameter): Straightening in dryer, no major diameter changes.

Length: 1.25"

Weight: 1/4" slingshot ammo

Dome: Hot glue dome, Ryan's style

[BustaNinja]

Daniel Beaver, on Jul 22 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

I think it may be worth making a test batch this weekend so that everyone can use them for a bit. So far the consensus seems to be:

Foam: Dennis brand grey foam

Stretching/Heating (diameter): Straightening in dryer, no major diameter changes.

Length: 1.25"

Weight: 1/4" slingshot ammo

Dome: Hot glue dome, Ryan's style

Minus the slingshot ammo, thats already the EXACT dart I make, so that change won't be hard to make.

[Carbon]

Daniel Beaver, on Jul 22 2009, 12:35 PM, said:

Quote

One other thought: I haven’t used ¼” slingshot weights much at all, but isn’t that too much weight for lower-ranged springers?

Yes and no. For blasters that shoot under 60ft, they don't perform as well as single bb weighted stefans. But they work much better in higher-powered blasters (90ft+) than bb weighted stefans. I would rather err on the side of using too much weight than using too little.

Just some random thoughts. Not sure about heavy darts for a few reasons:

1) It means that high-powered blasters (SM1500s, 4Bs, +Bows) wouldn’t take a performance hit, but lower powered ones (primarily springers) would. I lose about 10’ with heavy darts. And like SM1500s need another advantage on the field.
2) It would inadvertently advance the “arms race”. By standardizing on ammo that performs best in high powered guns, it encourages the use of high powered guns. Longer range = more standoffs = less people wanting to charge and take hits, because
3) ¼” slingshot ammo stefans are heavy, and tend to bruise, rather than welt.

I know the idea is to standardize on one dart type, but I really don’t think that there’s an equitable way to do that. As an idea, perhaps it would be better to make two or three weight classes of darts, and then color code the ends like how Ryan’s been doing it. As much as I like the idea of one type of dart, I really don’t think that differing gun performance makes that feasible.

[atomatron]

^ True.

Perhaps then, we should make two types of darts:

-long range 1.25" long, 1/4" slingshot weighted (for +bows, SM1.5ks, 4Bs, SM5ks, etc..)
-Shorter range 1.25" long, 1 BB or 3/16" bearing (for BBBs, NFs, Mavs, etc..)

I'm thinking that just different sharpie marks on the back would be enough to differentiate the two, or even using colored hot glue for one and clear for the other.

*Also this would allow us that already make the second type not have to do anything differently.

Edited by atomatron, 22 July 2009 - 02:15 PM.

[LiterSize]

Carbon brings up a good point, but the solution to bruising and standoffs is this:


MOAR SHIELDS AND CROSSFIRE BUCKLERS. At least, I was telling myself that every time Scott shot me with the +bow at Chicago Showdown.


Seriously though, what started as a way for nerfers to pool communal darts need not become a constructing darts in multiple piles and... calibers? Because that's what that suggestion sounds like. We all end up throwing whatever's nearest in our barrels anyway when we're in the thick of it, so how about everyone get together and pool the tools and resources, but make your dart tips as you see fit? Standardization would be nice, but our blasters aren't exactly standardized either?

[sam]

Have two different types of darts is kind of counter productive i think.
CS darts are the way to go. They work well in both high powered and lower powered blasters, and are super cheap and easy to make. and I'm sure we could think of an easy way to dye the felt tips a bright color so that they are easy to find on the ground.

Edited by sam, 22 July 2009 - 03:45 PM.

[Carbon]

sam, on Jul 22 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

Have two different types of darts is kind of counter productive i think.
CS darts are the way to go. They work well in both high powered and lower powered blasters, and are super cheap and easy to make. and I'm sure we could think of an easy way to dye the felt tips a bright color so that they are easy to find on the ground.

For Communist darts, I tend to agree. It also removes the issue of the glue dome and the relative skill of the dartmaker (and I say this as someone who just doesn't make domes.)

[LiterSize]

Well, stefans in general are cheap to make, that's besides the point. And on another note, Snake on the forums used white out to paint the BACKS of his darts. Seeing as how they land tip down, this made it wondrously easier to find them. Rather than messing with dye on felt, this is another thing to consider doing.

[Snake51886]

To go with LiterSize, I paint the backs becuase the darts land that way. Any bright acrylic paint with good binder will suffice. I prefer white becuase it looks the least like flowers or could be mistaken. I used white out becuase I could easily **borrow** it from work...

[Zorns Lemma]

I paint my darts with metallic pink. Just squirt the acrylic into a tray and dip the ends of the darts.

If anyone knows where I can get flourescent acrylic that isn't super-expensive or has-ridiculously-short-lifespan then that would be awesome.

[Daniel Beaver]

I executive veto the idea of having two dart types. That would over complicates things. Carbon, while I understand your grievances, I don't think that 1/4" slingshot weights under perform as much as you may think in lower-powered blasters. I bought some dennis brand foam, so I'll try to make a few stefans of each of these types to try them out at the war:

1 bb
2 bb
1/4" weight
Washer

I think that we will find that they all perform very similarly.


I like this idea of painting the back of the darts. It defeats my main reservation about grey foam -- namely, that it is hard to see in grass.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 22 July 2009 - 07:25 PM.

[TantumBull]

Why not try 3/0 fishing weights if you want something lighter than 1/4" slingshot BB's but heavier than standard copper-coated BB's?

[Hipponater]

TantumBull, on Jul 22 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Why not try 3/0 fishing weights if you want something lighter than 1/4" slingshot BB's but heavier than standard copper-coated BB's?

I was thinking the same. I currently use BBs (one) but I was thinking of switching over and trying the 3/0 fishing weights.

Also, I think the 3/0 weights are more economical than the 1/4" slingshot, which are pretty expensive compared to other weights, if I recall.

[TantumBull]

Ba-bam <<< Cheapest place you'll find. Plus they don't have those annoying little fins that throw off center of mass.

[Carbon]

Daniel Beaver, on Jul 22 2009, 07:24 PM, said:

I executive veto the idea of having two dart types.

True Communism never lasts very long, eh, Comrade?

No worries. At best, there won't be a performance difference. At worst, I won't use them. Unless you're talking about disallowing other dart types in Minnesota....

Oh, and thanks for that link, Tatum. That's the weight I use, and I've been trying to find them in bulk.

Edited by Carbon, 22 July 2009 - 07:55 PM.

[Zorns Lemma]

But you can't pick up lead weights with a magnet! Dammit Carbon, switch to slingshot weights so dart sweeps become infinitely easier.

[BustaNinja]

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 22 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

But you can't pick up lead weights with a magnet! Dammit Carbon, switch to slingshot weights so dart sweeps become infinitely easier.

Don't worry. Last weekend, we thoroughly berated Carbon's darts as everything else can be picked up by magnets. Even copper bbs. Either that, or its the metal flakes in the glue.

[Carbon]

BustaNinja, on Jul 22 2009, 11:16 PM, said:

Zorn's Lemma, on Jul 22 2009, 07:22 PM, said:

But you can't pick up lead weights with a magnet! Dammit Carbon, switch to slingshot weights so dart sweeps become infinitely easier.

Don't worry. Last weekend, we thoroughly berated Carbon's darts as everything else can be picked up by magnets. Even copper bbs. Either that, or its the metal flakes in the glue.

Hey, the way I see it, you guys pick up all your darts with the magnets. Everything left over is mine.

[Daniel Beaver]

Quote

At worst, I won't use them. Unless you're talking about disallowing other dart types in Minnesota....

Nah, I suspect that several people will keep using their own darts.


I'll pick up some 3/0 fishing weights today and make a few darts with them as well.

[tatertotguy]

We should do some of these factory days during the winter when we have no motivation to go outside.

[Daniel Beaver]

Fuck, I had this big long post on how the darts performed written up, and Firefox decides to crash. Fuck fuck fuck (Angry Beaver is Angry).

Anyways, the jist of it was: I tested a NF, 3B and 4B with a batch of darts I made with the various weights listed above. Here are my thoughts:

1 bb: Sucks, crappy ranges even from weak blasters

Slug darts: Work pretty well, but definitely a 10'-15' performance drop from the 4B.

Slug darts + 1 bb
3/0 fishing weights
1/4 slingshot ammo
2 bb:
All of these perform roughly on par -- I couldn't tell you which was better than the other.



Using Dennis brand foam, bb darts would cost roughly 2¢, 3/0 and 1/4 darts would cost 3¢, and slug darts would cost 4¢. I personally don’t care about cost. I would gladly pay for all the materials if it meant that I didn’t have to spend so damn much time making darts.

I like these Slug+bb darts. The ease of consistent construction is appealing to me, especially with regards to mass dart construction. Hot glue domes are hard to make properly and poorly made domes significantly affect accuracy. If we used Slug+bb darts, consistency would be ensured.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 23 July 2009 - 07:17 PM.

[A side of nerf]

I'd just like to say that dart Communism is a very efficient style of warring. Our regime provides darts for 5 people (all but me are non-members) making them not really care about dart style or barrel material. I provide the foam, mods, and barrels and they pay me back with either cash or they let me sell their guns as collateral.




As you can see the main choice is SwiFTNerf Foam. However the black (Log Home Shit) and the Gray (ACE brand) are popular as well.

A few weeks before the war, we gather and usually make darts for 4 hours straight or untill we run out of supplies. The black foam (once a 100 foot coil) has lasted 3 wars now between 5 people.

[Nerf Bros]

After trying out a liquid nails dart at the war today I think the idea really should be re-thought... When I got home I shot one at a wall with a 2K and there was no effect to the head of the dart. On the other hand the hot glue dart's head fell off, but I also think that the slug darts with an extra BB would work well too.