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A homemade Lock and Load

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#51 A side of nerf

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:52 PM

UPDATE:
I recently revised the catch mechanism.

What started out as a vague idea...
Posted Image

turned into a 3D concept...
Posted Image

Transformed into the catch mechanism rev 2.
Posted Image

Various pictures:
Posted Image
Posted Image
I have updated the templates and will have edited this revision into the plans by the end of the week.

It's not a major revision, but still a revision in it's own right.
This gun is really starting to turn into something. With Hereticorp and maybe others manufacturing these, I'm starting to feel a tear form in my eye.

Thanks,
-A side'
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#52 Draconis

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 12:56 PM

That's.... Incredibly simple. Certainly an excellent improvement.
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[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#53 hereticorp

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:26 PM

UPDATE:
I recently revised the catch mechanism.

It's not a major revision, but still a revision in it's own right.
This gun is really starting to turn into something. With Hereticorp and maybe others manufacturing these, I'm starting to feel a tear form in my eye.

Thanks,
-A side'


I like this better than the rod idea, but I'd put 2 layers of 1/4" just to make it so the spring was vertical instead of bent forward. It has less chance of flying off that way.
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#54 Draconis

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:24 PM

No, just add the same washers that the catch plate is spaced with. Or a strip of 1/8" PC. I think another 1/4" piece would push the alignment off the other direction, even farther.
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[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#55 hereticorp

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:24 PM

No, just add the same washers that the catch plate is spaced with. Or a strip of 1/8" PC. I think another 1/4" piece would push the alignment off the other direction, even farther.


We'll see how it works out this weekend, I'll post pictures.
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#56 A side of nerf

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:16 PM

I've updated plans with catch mechanism revision. I will also be making a directory in the first post to other L+L projects or revisions.

-A side'
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#57 hereticorp

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:15 PM

I have only one request for this project, can you possibly swap things around so that you can get the templates on 2 pages instead of 4? Those grip pieces should be able to go right next to each other like Slug has on his LplusL templates.

I've tried, but I hate Word and I suck in CAD, so I ask for assistance.

I'm going to try it in CAD, but not quite yet.

Thanks!
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#58 A side of nerf

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:57 PM

I put all of the templates on 3 pages, annoying, but I did it. I wanted to rotate the templates to be on a page with similar ones but Word was being annoying.
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#59 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:20 PM

I wanted to rotate the templates to be on a page with similar ones but Word was being annoying.

You have to select the image, right click, click "format picture", change the Layout to "in front of text", and click OK
Now you have a green dot on the top side of the image that allows you to rotate the image.

If you have oddly shaped parts and you want to fit them very close together on a page you would have to save them as a transparent PNG file before importing them into Word.
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#60 A side of nerf

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:29 PM

I tried that and I tried the other way where you go:
1. Format Picture
2. Size
3. Rotate
...and then all selection options are gray and won't let you select it.

Then I tried the way where you go:
1. Format toolbar
2. Rotate
...and then all selection options are gray and won't let you select it.

I tried multiple times selecting and unselecting and it won't work.

I'm not going to lie, I don't know much about software but It might be Vista. (I usually blame all of my problems on that)

A side of nerf

Edited by A side of nerf, 20 November 2008 - 07:29 PM.

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#61 Draconis

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:51 PM

I tried that and I tried the other way where you go:
1. Format Picture
2. Size
3. Rotate
...and then all selection options are gray and won't let you select it.

Then I tried the way where you go:
1. Format toolbar
2. Rotate
...and then all selection options are gray and won't let you select it.

I tried multiple times selecting and unselecting and it won't work.

I'm not going to lie, I don't know much about software but It might be Vista. (I usually blame all of my problems on that)

A side of nerf


I did this once already... Now where did I put that file? I will find and post it as soon as I can.
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[15:51] <+Noodle> titties
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#62 hereticorp

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 09:59 AM

ASoN: Do you have the original pictures you used to make that Word file? 'cause I can do the Transparent PNG thing with them and that should make the whole thing a lot easier to deal with in the future.
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#63 A side of nerf

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Posted 23 November 2008 - 12:43 PM

I have them saved in Microsoft Paint, PM me your email and I can send them to you.
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#64 A side of nerf

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:45 PM

UPDATE:

Some templates were the wrong size but they have been corrected. I also would like to say that all though in the parts list it states that you can use oak dowel or nylon rod, I recommend nylon rod because The threads can be ripped by then tension of the spring on the plunger head.

Also, if anyone has any finished pictures, please post them in this thread for others to see. The only other person I am aware of having made this is Heriticorp.
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#65 Draconis

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 07:11 PM

UPDATE:

Some templates were the wrong size but they have been corrected. I also would like to say that all though in the parts list it states that you can use oak dowel or nylon rod, I recommend nylon rod because The threads can be ripped by then tension of the spring on the plunger head.

Also, if anyone has any finished pictures, please post them in this thread for others to see. The only other person I am aware of having made this is Heriticorp.



Hoping to compete construction today.

EDIT:

Well, I mostly finished. Enough to where I could fire it. For some reason, I can't find the bag that had most of my standoffs and screws in it. Anyway, I actually used CaptainSlug's templates, and have some suggestions for adjustments too. I'm not sure what is going on, though. It's not getting very good ranges. 40-60 feet with sonics and taggers, 35-70 feet with stefans & streamlines from 6" of Sch 80 PVC. The really weird part is the PETG barrel... It's a little long at 11", but the darts would either not exit completely, or drop straight to the ground. I think something is up with the plunger head, though. I will look in to it tomorrow

Edited by Draconis, 30 November 2008 - 01:16 AM.

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[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#66 hereticorp

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 12:11 PM

Well, I PM'd you and got no reply.

There IS a problem with the plunger head, the washer indicated on the parts list is too small to produce an effective seal in the barrel, but if Draconis used CS's plans, he's using the +Bow plunger tube and washer, so theoretically that shouldn't be an issue. I'll be looking for a more appropriate washer when I get the chance to fiddle around with this again. The washer I was using previously was slightly oversized and I noticed when I created a second plunger head that the washer was too small.

Here's some pictures of the mods I did to the templates to make them work better.

Posted Image
Trim the width to 1.5" as per the line on the right.
Recenter the notch at the lower edge
Recenter the drill hole
Migrate the right hand holes to 1/4" from the edge to make sure they line up vertically
Check that spacing is even on all 4 green holes, 1/4" from the edge

Posted Image
Trim the width to 1.5" as per the line on the right
Migrate the right hand slot markings to match the distance from the edge of the holes on the previous piece. 1/4" to the center of the slot.
Recenter the drill hole
Recenter the top notch (Not marked in picture)

Posted Image
Cut the top of the grip core pieces off flat, the little spike things are useless and wasteful. The templates fit much better on a sheet when they are flat topped.

Posted Image
Eliminate the unneeded hole on the side frame pieces. The hole that corresponds to the trigger screw hole in the grip piece is not needed and should be eliminated. The hole is not drilled in the picture.

New pictures are also being posted in my L+L Rev 1.5 thread, I've made two plunger assemblies with two different rod materials and I have a 1/2" square nylon rod to experiment with when I'm done with my Clear Maverick mod.

Edited by hereticorp, 01 December 2008 - 12:15 PM.

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#67 A side of nerf

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:32 PM

Well, I PM'd you and got no reply.

Yeah, I should have responded but I can't send them to you. The templates were saved on my other computer because I hate working with paint on Vista so i had to email them to this computer upon completion and currently they aren't saved on my old one because I sent them to this one in a word document.

There IS a problem with the plunger head, the washer indicated on the parts list is too small to produce an effective seal in the barrel,

I tighten down my washer until it curves upward producing an efficient seal.

I like the edits you made to the design. I feel bad that I have not been as active in my project then others...


EDIT (sorry forgot to address this)

It's not getting very good ranges. 40-60 feet with sonics and taggers, 35-70 feet with stefans & streamlines from 6" of Sch 80 PVC. The really weird part is the PETG barrel... It's a little long at 11", but the darts would either not exit completely, or drop straight to the ground. I think something is up with the plunger head, though. I will look in to it tomorrow

I use CPVC and a 4 inch barrel but I think the problem lies in your plunger seal.

Edited by A side of nerf, 01 December 2008 - 05:37 PM.

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#68 hereticorp

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:31 PM

Yeah, I should have responded but I can't send them to you. The templates were saved on my other computer because I hate working with paint on Vista so i had to email them to this computer upon completion and currently they aren't saved on my old one because I sent them to this one in a word document.


Alright, I'll keep working in CAD then, you don't happen to have exact measurements for each piece do you?

I tighten down my washer until it curves upward producing an efficient seal.


Heh, and what do you use to tighten down on the washer? I'm using two pieces of polycarbonate and they're winched down about as tight as I can get them without tearing the threads out of the polycarbonate/nylon rods.

I like the edits you made to the design. I feel bad that I have not been as active in my project then others...


Heck, you're the one who came up with the catch spring redesign, that's way more of a revolution than what I did.

I use CPVC and a 4 inch barrel but I think the problem lies in your plunger seal.


I used PETG and an 8" barrel, but it also worked great with a 12" brass breech, so it's definitely the plunger seal.
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#69 Draconis

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 07:00 PM

I just got my new batch of washers, and just installed one. I'll test ranges again tonight.
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[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#70 A side of nerf

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:16 PM

Ok,

The washer is flush against a piece of aluminum. On the other side of the aluminum, is a nut. The nut pulls the screw into the washer through the aluminum tightening it until it curves upward enough to make a good seal. The remainder of the screw that sticks out is then threaded into the plunger rod. Works great for me!

I describe it only because I can't upload pictures right now.

Edited by A side of nerf, 01 December 2008 - 09:17 PM.

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#71 hereticorp

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 08:46 AM

Ok,

The washer is flush against a piece of aluminum. On the other side of the aluminum, is a nut. The nut pulls the screw into the washer through the aluminum tightening it until it curves upward enough to make a good seal. The remainder of the screw that sticks out is then threaded into the plunger rod. Works great for me!

I describe it only because I can't upload pictures right now.


Ah, so you have a compression setup that doesn't require the plunger rod be taken into account at all, that's definitely a smarter way to do it than I've been doing. I'll have to find some appropriate washers, or just use two pieces of 1/8" poly instead of 1/4" and 1/8".

Ok, one other thing, I revised the templates so that the piece sizes are correct and the template sheets are as compressed as they're going to get without me dicking around with photoshop a lot more than I want to today.

Download Templates Rev 1.5 Here

I did NOT correct the hole placement or spacing on the catch frame, nor did I correct the slot locations on the catch plate itself. I corrected widths, heights, and made the measurements a little more standard, some of the pieces were 1/16" off of an even inch so I fixed that. I also removed the extra hole on the side frame templates.

As a general rule, when deciding where to drill/cut the catch frame and the catch plate, the screw holes should be 1/4" in from the edge, and the slots should be centered at 1/4" in from the edge. The large holes should be centered on the piece, and I adjusted the size to match the +Bow drill size, which is 9/16" and not 1/2".

The notch at the bottom of the catch frame is not centered and will need to be either expanded to the right or remeasured and cut centered, the same goes for the two notches that hold the spring, they will need to be centered.

I also eliminated the hole guides for drilling the side of the catch frame, and the template for the plunger rod, being as it's a simple thing to measure 2 1/8" in from the end and then cut a notch, you only have to do one after all, not 3.

These templates should be a little better on the environment, they only take up two pages.

Edited by hereticorp, 02 December 2008 - 02:32 PM.

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#72 A side of nerf

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 09:41 PM

I was looking at the templates and the two side plates that the handle configuration attach to are too small.
Otherwise it looks great!

I did NOT correct the hole placement or spacing on the catch frame,

I fixed those when I updated the templates on the 28th


I'll add your templates to the original post under "L+L revisions/modification directory" :)I also got in my shipment of nylon rod today and it works a lot better than the dowel. Also, sorry but i still can't upload a picture of my plunger head but I think you understand how it works.
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#73 hereticorp

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 09:51 PM

I was looking at the templates and the two side plates that the handle configuration attach to are too small.
Otherwise it looks great!

I'll add your templates to the original post under "L+L revisions/modification directory" :)I also got in my shipment of nylon rod today and it works a lot better than the dowel. Also, sorry but i still can't upload a picture of my plunger head but I think you understand how it works.


The plates that go on the side of the... Oh of course they are, I didn't do the height correctly. I'll fix it.

Thanks.

Yeah, I get it, no worries.
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#74 A side of nerf

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Posted 18 January 2009 - 05:00 PM

UPDATE:

This catch design was originally presented by Captainslug in his version of the L+L handle setup.
It eliminates the need of a compression spring by using an extension spring to pull the catch down, ulimately minimizing space on the catch plate. '
Images:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I haven't updated the plans to reflect this change yet because i am working on a major homemade project right now.
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#75 Draconis

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 02:19 AM

This project just keeps getting better, too... Ironically, I finally got off my ass half an hour ago and cut my replacement plunger rod (broken early last month). Then I come back to find an update? Huzzah!
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[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
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[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?


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