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+bow: Diy Thread

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#101 CaptainSlug

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 12:47 PM

Its got less barrels .Or is it still too heavy

Still too bulky for my tastes.

You said you will be editing the construction write-up; will you still have a link to the original? I am curious because

I will e keeping them as separate files.
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#102 Foam Shooter

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 06:22 PM

+Bow Rev.2 is forthcoming.

I've made a great deal of minor changes to the original design that will require me to edit half of the steps in the construction write-up. The update includes changes to the grip, trigger, plunger handles, rear frame piece, and part list.

By changes to the part list will this make the list cheaper, or just allow for you to modify the grip, trigger, plunger handles, and rear frame piece. Just curious because I am getting a scroll saw soon and once I get a feel for it I will begin construction on this. Also, whatever happened to the wob+ and Arr. I'm assuming you don't have enough free time but are you planning on finishing these eventually.

Edited by Foam_Shooter, 07 September 2008 - 06:24 PM.

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#103 CaptainSlug

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 07:15 PM

1. By changes to the part list will this make the list cheaper, or just allow for you to modify the grip, trigger, plunger handles, and rear frame piece.
2. Also, whatever happened to the wob+ and Arr. I'm assuming you don't have enough free time but are you planning on finishing these eventually.

1. It will make the part cost slightly cheaper ($75 not including label paper cost). The changes substantially increase the comfort level of the blaster.
2. I have a list of things I want to finish before those. The most war-capable ones getting priority.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 07 September 2008 - 07:17 PM.

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#104 Blasphemy

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:12 PM

[POKEFUN]Damn it CS, I just printed out and spent an hour cutting out my +bow templates the other day and now you have to make me re-do some of them by developing a superior design. I'm not really angry but just frustrated, you're not going to update on me and make re-do my templates numerous times are you?[/POKEFUN]

Anyways, to save dollars for those who want to, I want you all to know you can squeeze all of your 1/8" components onto a sheet of 12" by 8" if you can find one.

Here is a picture for proof:
Posted Image

Edited by Blasphemy, 08 September 2008 - 07:19 PM.

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#105 CaptainSlug

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:16 PM

Anyways, to save dollars for those who want to, I want you to know you all to know you can squeeze all of your 1/8" components onto a sheet of 12" by 8" if you can find one.

'tis true
Rev.2 partlist includes this update.
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#106 Blasphemy

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:26 PM

Anyways, to save dollars for those who want to, I want you to know you all to know you can squeeze all of your 1/8" components onto a sheet of 12" by 8" if you can find one.

'tis true
Rev.2 partlist includes this update.


Any idea of when we'll get to see the rev. 2 partslist and all that jazz? I'm not trying to pressure or annoy, I know your a very busy person, just wanted to know for planning purposes is all, if you could tell me.
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#107 CaptainSlug

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 09:47 PM

Eh, well I'd have to make some pieces and take some pictures. Sometime next week.
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#108 Blasphemy

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 04:49 PM

Cool. Currently I'm working on sorting out several ways I could make or modify the trigger when I do make it to have a hook to link the trigger of any attachments I make for the +bow I'll be making. It's a simple concept, I just want to find the easiest and sturdiest way to achieve it.

I hand drew a concept picture today:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Basically it is just a hook and eye type design. The trigger provides the hook, and the attachment has a key ring or something of the like attached to fishing line which is attached to the attachment's trigger. You mount the attachment on the rail and place the keyring in the hook and you have an easily removable linked trigger.

I'll see how I can fudge with the rev. 2 trigger template once you release the rev. 2 templates.

EDIT: Sorry for the blurry pictures, but it should still be fairly easy to understand.

Edited by Blasphemy, 09 September 2008 - 05:02 PM.

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#109 CaptainSlug

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:59 AM

I continue to receive e-mails and PMs of people asking me if the +Bow can be made out of acrylic. The answer to this is a resounding NO. In fact there is no material cheaper or easier to make a +Bow with than polycarbonate.

The only part in the current list of materials that is not made out of polycarbonate is the plunger rod, which can be made out of most medium hardness plastics. Polyethylene works fine and was chosen because it's available in the rectangular bar size needed to make the part easier to make.

Polycarbonate is used for the rest of the blaster because it's fairly cheap, easy to machine, and very durable. Acrylic is too brittle to be used as a substitute and simply cannot withstand the forces applied by the ridiculously strong spring that this gun is designed around.
Acetal/Delrin or Nylon are the only suitable substitutes for polycarbonate if you are asking about alternative plastics. But neither are cheaper or more readily available. Nylon can be weird to machine at times because it's more waxy than polycarbonate. Acetal/Delrin is an AWESOME material to machine, but it's not as common and varies in price a good deal.

The rest of the plastic families and types are unsuitable, not affordable, or too difficult to machine.

In other news, I have updated the photos for steps 33 through 35.
Posted Image

Edited by CaptainSlug, 19 September 2008 - 01:47 AM.

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#110 Langley

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 10:14 AM

What parts are under stress from the spring aside from the catch and plunger? Would it be possible for someone to craft kits that provide the parts of the gun which are under the greatest stress, and allow the customer to craft the rest of the gun out of alternative materials? Perhaps something cheap easy to bend and shape could be given a shape that adds strength to the body of the gun. Or maybe some metal pieces could be substituted in. Small pieces of aluminum sheet can be bought at most hardware stores, and they can be cut easily to a shape with hand tools. You would possibly have to make some corrugations in the metal to prevent it from bending.

Edited by Langley, 19 September 2008 - 10:17 AM.

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You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.

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#111 VACC

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 12:57 PM

I would like to note that the new handle and trigger designs are a massive improvement over the previous iterations. The handle is much more comfortable to do...well everything with, and the trigger makes it possible to fire this gun easily with one hand again (not that I'd advise that). Both changes will increase accuracy and make the weapon more useful in conjunction with a side arm. Very, very cool.

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#112 CaptainSlug

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 05:57 PM

For clarification: VACC is talking about the revised trigger that rotates instead of slides. And about the Rev.2 grip which he paid me to make for him.

What parts are under stress from the spring aside from the catch and plunger?

Excluding the plunger and catch plate:
Posted Image
Secondary load bearing parts are the grip and plunger priming handles since those are used to provide leverage for priming the plunger.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 20 September 2008 - 09:07 PM.

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#113 Slice

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 07:01 PM

What parts are under stress from the spring aside from the catch and plunger?

Excluding the plunger and catch plate:
Posted Image
Secondary load bearing parts are the grip and plunger priming handles since those are used to provide leverage for priming the plunger.


Yes. The constant pounding on the bushing broke my gun. However, I fixed it by putting some foam right in front of th plunger handle so the foam would hit the back of the gun and not the bushing.
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#114 A side of nerf

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 09:53 PM

For those having trouble with snapped plunger rods, I have found an alternative material, aluminum. You can buy 1/4in thickness aluminum at local hardware stores, and It is so light, it has little to no affect on range.

(In these pictures, the grooves are cut in the wrong spot but I have corrected this error)

Aluminum Punger rod:
Posted Image

Various Pictures:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

NOTE: When working with aluminum, be sure to sand all of the parts that have been cut. A helpful tip for cutting and drilling, apply oil to the aluminum. Also apply protective coverings (cloth, rubber, etc...) to areas that the aluminum contacts with such as the catch.

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#115 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 12:21 AM

You will also need a higher hardness rating tap for adding a thread to drilled holes in aluminum.

Edit: Design work on the +Bow Rev.2 is done. Will be machining the parts for the first one today in order to take the photos needed for the updated instructions.
Posted Image
+ Requires less machining time (fewer cutout areas that require the use of a scrollsaw)
+ Requires fewer materials
+ Is much more comfortable to operate
+ Has wider machining tolerances
+ Has improved durability

Edited by CaptainSlug, 20 September 2008 - 08:45 AM.

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#116 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 04:49 PM

Another teaser.
Posted Image
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#117 CaliforniaPants

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 06:02 PM

Another teaser.
*above picture*


From the looks of it, that handle has no foam. Did you make a molded handle, or is it just not finished?
I'm guessing the answers will come soon. Also, the frosty plastic looks nice.
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#118 CaptainSlug

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 08:43 PM

Another teaser.
*above picture*


From the looks of it, that handle has no foam. Did you make a molded handle, or is it just not finished?
I'm guessing the answers will come soon. Also, the frosty plastic looks nice.

The new grip design requires that its edges be sanded or beveled by other means (like using a hobby knife). But the new design accomplishes the following.

+ Provides enough rigidity where needed to make priming the plunger comfortable
+ Flexes enough to conform to the user's hand when squeezed
+ Made from materials already on the part list
+ Removes the need to order a sheet of foam

All of the Rev.2 parts will be interchangeable with the Rev.1 parts. But the Rev.2 parts reduce the supply cost and machining difficulty of the +Bow, while at the same time reducing the over-all cost.
If you bought the supplies and only made one +Bow, you should have enough materials left over to upgrade it from Rev.1 to Rev.2

I basically spent all week re-evaluating ever part in the design trying to find ways of improving them without having buy materials that would increase the price. One important change is having the plunger rod made out of the same 1/2" diameter rod that the rods for the stock are made from.

The Rev.2 construction write-up is mostly done. I just have to get a few more parts because I ran out of standoffs before finishing.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 20 September 2008 - 08:59 PM.

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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#119 rork

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 10:05 PM

A friend and I are getting a bit of a shop together, so I'll be able to start one of these reasonably soon. To my understanding, a lot of the reason that a scrollsaw is required is that the square holes for the plunger rod were just too hairy to cut out with another tool. With the new round plunger rod, will it be possible to build a plusbow using a bandsaw, or will the scrollsaw still be absolutely necessary? I'm looking into acquiring a scrollsaw anyway, but on the off chance that it's no longer a necessity, I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. ~Rork

Edited by rork, 20 September 2008 - 10:10 PM.

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#120 CaptainSlug

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:07 AM

In the new design the following parts require cuts inside of a part after a pilot hole is drilled.

+ Grip halves (trigger well, which you could cut open at the front if you had to)
+ Trigger catch plate

Far fewer than before. If you want to cut them out using a jigsaw you'll have to mount the parts in a vice and cut the hole out of the center. I would recommend doing that before cutting them to their final shape.
The holes in the frame pieces have been changed to 9/16" ID holes that can be drilled out with a flat blade wood-boring drill bit.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 21 September 2008 - 02:12 AM.

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#121 rork

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:29 AM

That's fantastic to know. A $20 jig saw is a lot easier to swing than a $100 scroll saw, and I already have access to a band saw. I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the rev. 2 design. On another note: McMaster's clear polycarbonate seems to be cheaper than the tinted stuff now. Is the frosted stuff on yours a special type, or is it a coating? Thanks a lot for the continuing tech support. ~Rork

PS: Are you talking about a 9/16" spade-type bit?
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#122 CaptainSlug

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:32 AM

That's fantastic to know. A $20 jig saw is a lot easier to swing than a $100 scroll saw, and I already have access to a band saw. I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the rev. 2 design. On another note: McMaster's clear polycarbonate seems to be cheaper than the tinted stuff now. Is the frosted stuff on yours a special type, or is it a coating? Thanks a lot for the continuing tech support. ~Rork

PS: Are you talking about a 9/16" spade-type bit?

Yeah, you should be able to manage fine with some of the smaller jigsaw blades used for cutting plywood veneer. Those or metal smooth-cut blades.

The difference in price between tinted or not does tend to waffle back and forth. Just pick whatever is cheapest when you order.
And the polycarbonate I used is not special at all. I simply sanded it with a 300 grit sanding sponge because the glossy texture feels too weird on parts that you have to hold onto.

And yes if you ware drilled any holes in plastic that are larger than 5/16" you will need to use these, which are labeled with a variety of names.
Flat-blade, spade, trident, etc. they're meant for wood-boring but they work great with plastics.
Posted Image
Generic drill bit sets have too steep of a bite angle to be used safely with plastics.

For this project you'll only need two sizes: 1/2" and 9/16"
The rest of the drilled holes are 1/4" or smaller.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 21 September 2008 - 01:38 AM.

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#123 Z4

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:40 PM

I started cutting out the main 1/4" frame pieces for my second +bow yesterday, and already cut the centers out for the 1/4" plunger rod. Will it be possible for me to drill the pieces out for the Rev. 2 rod or do I need to recut them entirely?

Rev. 2 is looking great, I can't wait to see the rest of the write-up.

Edited by .Z4., 21 September 2008 - 01:42 PM.

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#124 CaptainSlug

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 03:59 PM

I started cutting out the main 1/4" frame pieces for my second +bow yesterday, and already cut the centers out for the 1/4" plunger rod. Will it be possible for me to drill the pieces out for the Rev. 2 rod or do I need to recut them entirely?

You'll have to print out the new templates and use the scrollsaw to widen the shape of the existing hole to accommodate the the round plunger rod if you want to change over to it.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 21 September 2008 - 03:59 PM.

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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#125 Z4

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 04:07 PM

You'll have to print out the new templates and use the scrollsaw to widen the shape of the existing hole to accommodate the the round plunger rod if you want to change over to it.

All right, glad to hear it. Thanks a lot.

My +bow. It was my first experience machining plastics with a scrollsaw (I know it wasn't recommended, but I wanted to give it a go). I'd say it came out pretty good. A few of the cuts aren't straight, and some of the holes didn't line up first shot, but the process really wasn't as painful as I expected.
Posted Image
The new trigger is MUCH easier to pull and far more comfortable than the old slider. My only issue with it now is the cocking handle, and it appears that Rev. 2 solves that entirely. I also need to hit that part up with the sander again. I'll be doing some minor sanding and comfort improvement over the whole thing, and probably give it a dye job, but it's done, and it's awesome. I can't wait for the full Revision 2 experience...I'll be one of the first downloading the templates.

And now I'm very very happy with it.

Stole the words right out of my mouth...

EDIT: Just one more quick question: Will the Rev. 2 supply list require any new things or more of some of what's on there? I'm in the process of placing a McMaster order and want to know what to get.

Edited by .Z4., 22 September 2008 - 04:42 PM.

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