26 replies to this topic

[badger]

A couple weeks ago, I went a little loopy. Everyone started posting, with so much excitement, that Nerf had re-released the Ripsaw under a new name, the Buzzsaw. They made it sound like ball guns are great. What I remember about ball guns, in general, is simply this,

"They suck in a war and their range is pathetic."

I am a collector and I can completely agree with this statement. I never saw a ball gun that could go further than 25-30 feet except for the MP-150 and the Bungee Blaster, but the first one is loud as hell and the latter one most people were too scared to use for fear of losing the irreplaceable ammo. It was at this point that my girlfriend and I had to negotiate a day to let me modify and produce Nerf guns.

This is my first attempt at building a homemade Nerf gun. I wanted it to be able to do several key things:

• To be able to fire more than one type of ammo by making some parts interchangeable.
• To be CO2 powered, but not to the point that it weighed a ton.
• To be compact enough that it could be attached to other guns, mainly my LS.
• To be able to prove that a good ball gun can exist.

I think that I achieved it tonight. I haven't named it yet because I figured I would leave that up to all of you.


This is what it looks like fully assembled.


This is its appearance when the center cylinder is removed.

Listed below are the parts that are neded to make this. Use the numbered picture as a guide:

• 1" PVC Slide Repair Coupling (SRC) #1
• 1 1/4" PVC Piping #2
• 1 1/2" PVC Fitting #3
• 1 1/4" PVC Coupling #4
• 1 1/4" PVC End Cap #5
• CO2 Tire Inflator #6
• Schraeder Valve (take it from an old bike tire and cut it out, leaving a 1/2" wide ring of rubber attached) #7
• Epoxy suited for PVC
• Some of OMC's PETG (to be included later this week in the design)

It is quite simple to put together, but it will take a full day to let the epoxy cure completely. First you need to unscrew the two halves of the Repair Coupling. In the center of it is the slide assembly. Put this somewhere safe as it is lubricated and you will need it. The center piece is what will convert it from firing balls to darts. Then you take the PVC coupling and glue it to the back end of the SRC. It will not be a snug fit as the parts are not normally compatible, but epoxy can fix that. While this is setting, take the 1 1/2" fitting and glue it to the front of the SRC as shown in the picture. The larger end is threaded so it is the end to attach and epoxy to the SRC. This will be the receptacle you will place Ballistic balls inside to launch them. Place this piece aside and get the Schraeder valve, a 4"-6" piece of 1 1/4" PVC piping and the PVC cap. These parts will comprise your airtank. Drill a hole through the cap just big enough to push the schraeder through, smear some epoxy on the excess rubber and insert the valve through the inside of the cap. The excess rubber will need to be held down against the inside of the cap when you glue it. I used a 35mm film canister and a vise to ensure that the excess rubber was glued to the wall of the cap. This is as far as you can go until it sets a bit.

Come back in about 2-3 hours and you can continue. Take the PVC cap with the now attached Schraeder valve and add a little bit of epoxy to the outside around the valve stem to ensure an airtight fit. Now take the length of PVC piping and insert it into the coupling that you attached earlier to the SRC. Before you apply the epoxy though, attach the cap to the other side of the piping. Now epoxy the coupling to the piping and the piping to the cap. When this sets, you will have the airtank completed.

That's pretty much it. Allow the epoxy to cure for 24 hours before firing the gun. Now firing it is not as simple as just hooking up the inflator and pulling the trigger. I already tried this and the ranges on Ballistic balls are as bad as any ball gun made by Nerf. This is why you use the SRC. At the point where the two pieces screw together, place about 3-5 layers of plastic bag. Bags from Target work well, but you can also try garbage bags. Don't use those crappy plastic bags from the supermarket. Once you have the bag pieces, pull them over the front half of the SRC and screw the two pieces together. The plastic acts as a burst seal. When the pressure inside the airtank is stronger then the tensile strength of the plastic, it will rupture and the ammo will launch.

I haven't measured the ranges yet as it is dark out, but my house is about 45 feet long. I fired the gun in the basement of my house standing at one end, figuring into it that my body and the gun took about 3 feet of distance. The ball flew from one end of the house to the other and didn't touch the ground. I held the barrel as level as I could. I will do more distance measurements when I get the PETG in and build the dart assembly.

Edited by badger, 03 February 2007 - 07:25 PM.

[King Of Butt Land]

Very nice, but if I were you I would've used pvc cement and primer. Safer. Better. Less deadly. More... wellbeing(?).

-Butt

[badger]

King Of Butt Land, on Jan 21 2007, 09:20 PM, said:

Very nice, but if I were you I would've used pvc cement and primer. Safer. Better. Less deadly. More... wellbeing(?).

-Butt

Safety is my main concern, but I don't see why epoxy would be unsafe. If you know what you are doing, there is no risk involved. I've been working with epoxy and other hardcore sealants since I was in the military, so I know how to handle myself. Thank you though for the concern.

Edited by badger, 21 January 2007 - 10:14 PM.

[mini]

This is actually really freaky i was just about to post a topic asking if anyone has tried bike inflater's for moding yet. Anyway i have a few questions for you if thats alright. How many shots do you get per tank? Where did u find the inflater. I'm asking this because i plan on making a co2 powered nerf shot gun. Any who great job im still kinda scared this coincidence.

[badger]

mini, on Jan 21 2007, 10:55 PM, said:

This is actually really freaky i was just about to post a topic asking if anyone has tried bike inflater's for moding yet. Anyway i have a few questions for you if thats alright. How many shots do you get per tank? Where did u find the inflater. I'm asking this because i plan on making a co2 powered nerf shot gun. Any who great job im still kinda scared this coincidence.

I'm actually not the first to use these types of inflators. The first person, I believe, was davidbowie back in June of last year. His design was the inspiration for mine. Here is the link to his thread.

Co2 Burst Disk Gun

Anyways, I haven't calculated the number of shots I get per tank. Bowie's design gets 10 shots per tank. I won't be able to test mine until I buy some more cartridges. I have one left and that is for proof of concept testing and distance checks.

As for where I found the inflator, go to a bike shop and they have them there. The inflators run anywhere from $20-$25 each and the charges go for about $2-$3 per 12 gram cartridge. They make them larger, but I haven't found an inflator yet that can take either the 16 gram or 25 gram sizes.

Good luck with your shotgun.

[mini]

badger, on Jan 21 2007, 09:03 PM, said:

mini, on Jan 21 2007, 10:55 PM, said:

This is actually really freaky i was just about to post a topic asking if anyone has tried bike inflater's for moding yet. Anyway i have a few questions for you if thats alright. How many shots do you get per tank? Where did u find the inflater. I'm asking this because i plan on making a co2 powered nerf shot gun. Any who great job im still kinda scared this coincidence.

I'm actually not the first to use these types of inflators. The first person, I believe, was davidbowie back in June of last year. His design was the inspiration for mine. Here is the link to his thread.

Co2 Burst Disk Gun

Anyways, I haven't calculated the number of shots I get per tank. Bowie's design gets 10 shots per tank. I won't be able to test mine until I buy some more cartridges. I have one left and that is for proof of concept testing and distance checks.

As for where I found the inflator, go to a bike shop and they have them there. The inflators run anywhere from $20-$25 each and the charges go for about $2-$3 per 12 gram cartridge. They make them larger, but I haven't found an inflator yet that can take either the 16 gram or 25 gram sizes.

Good luck with your shotgun.

About how quickly does it release the co2 when u pull the trigger i was hoping i could use it directly without the bursting of bag.

[badger]

Not anywhere near fast enough. It is designed to release the air fast enough to inflate a bicycle or other rubber tire. If it went too fast, the cylinder and its contents would freeze up and make it pretty useless. I tried to fire the balls without the burst seal design and they flew about the same as a regular Nerf ball gun. Last year I tried propelling a dart using the air cans that are used for claening out electronics (Pen Air). You need that sudden burst of force to launch any projectile a good distance. That is why Nerf guns work the way they do. The spring guns, for the most part, launch the plunger forward hard enough to launch the dart and the air tank equipped ones propel the darts using bursts of air, not streams. The inflator doesn't produce the air burst with any amount of force to launch a dart far. The burst seal is the best way to go.

Look at how a blow gun works. You don't steadily blow through the gun, you give it one hard puff of air. Since the inflators can't do this, the burst seal produces the effect.

Hope this helps.

[mini]

badger, on Jan 21 2007, 09:21 PM, said:

Not anywhere near fast enough. It is designed to release the air fast enough to inflate a bicycle or other rubber tire. If it went too fast, the cylinder and its contents would freeze up and make it pretty useless. I tried to fire the balls without the burst seal design and they flew about the same as a regular Nerf ball gun. Last year I tried propelling a dart using the air cans that are used for claening out electronics (Pen Air). You need that sudden burst of force to launch any projectile a good distance. That is why Nerf guns work the way they do. The spring guns, for the most part, launch the plunger forward hard enough to launch the dart and the air tank equipped ones propel the darts using bursts of air, not streams. The inflator doesn't produce the air burst with any amount of force to launch a dart far. The burst seal is the best way to go.

Look at how a blow gun works. You don't steadily blow through the gun, you give it one hard puff of air. Since the inflators can't do this, the burst seal produces the effect.

Hope this helps.

Maybe i should just scrap the co2 idea and go for a strait pump design. MY plan is to use a clip design similar to this http://www.nerfhq.co...hp?topic=2933.0 One pump= one dart in barrel. So the more pumps the ore darts in barrel at same time as well as more power. I guess i can probably do this without co2 just with a very good bike pump and part of an attack 3k.

[badger]

I hope it works out for you then. I like his design, but I am into simplicity with my designwork. Maybe once I get my distance measurements, you can see which will work better for you. This gun is not meant for fast reload, rather for one quick and fast shot. It was originally meant just to be a ball gun to strap under my LS as a grenade launcher of sorts, but then I realized I could also use it as a dart gun. As time goes on, I'll improve on the design. Right now my biggest problem is rapidly reloading the burst seals, but I'm not worried about it. As a ball launcher, it works perfectly. I just fired it down in my basement again to see how much kick it had behind it. It hit one of the support beams in the ceiling and the sheer force of it hitting the beam broke away some loose paint and debris. No ball gun made by any manufacturer can make that boast. I'm a little scared of how far this will shoot.

[mini]

badger, on Jan 21 2007, 09:47 PM, said:

I hope it works out for you then. I like his design, but I am into simplicity with my designwork. Maybe once I get my distance measurements, you can see which will work better for you. This gun is not meant for fast reload, rather for one quick and fast shot. It was originally meant just to be a ball gun to strap under my LS as a grenade launcher of sorts, but then I realized I could also use it as a dart gun. As time goes on, I'll improve on the design. Right now my biggest problem is rapidly reloading the burst seals, but I'm not worried about it. As a ball launcher, it works perfectly. I just fired it down in my basement again to see how much kick it had behind it. It hit one of the support beams in the ceiling and the sheer force of it hitting the beam broke away some loose paint and debris. No ball gun made by any manufacturer can make that boast. I'm a little scared of how far this will shoot.

instead of a burst seal u could install a ball valve and just open that up once its built up enough pressure.

[King Of Butt Land]

No, that would get crappy ranges, burst disk are the most efficient type of valve. Also if you kept the co2 on while opening the valve it would all escape.

-Butt

[badger]

I have to agree with Butt. A ball valve is pretty hard to open quickly and the air would escape the moment the valve begins to open. Add to it the fact that it will decrease the amount of shots that you would get per cylinder and the extra time it would take to first prime it and then fire. The burst seal design allows for the priming and firing sequences to be the same action. Sure, it will take a while to reload another burst seal into the gun, but it is meant to be a backup weapon to my main, not a primary. I will try to get out and get distances sometime this week or, at the latest, this weekend.

On an additional note, I am trying to figure out a way to make easier to replace burst seals, rather than draping 5 layers of plastic bag over the fitting and screwing it together. It is an attempt to make it a little more efficient a weapon and to give me a greater chance of reloading during a battle. I have some ideas, but no way to put them into words at this time. Any ideas?

[mrgrimm]

badger, on Jan 21 2007, 05:43 PM, said:

A couple weeks ago, I went a little loopy. Everyone started posting, with so much excitement, that Nerf had re-released the Ripsaw under a new name, the Buzzsaw. They made it sound like ball guns are great. What I remember about ball guns, in general, is simply this,

"They suck in a war and their range is pathetic."

I am a collector and I can completely agree with this statement. I never saw a ball gun that could go further than 25-30 feet except for the MP-150 and the Bungee Blaster, but the first one is loud as hell and the latter one most people were too scared to use for fear of losing the irreplaceable ammo. It was at this point that my girlfriend and I had to negotiate a day to let me modify and produce Nerf guns.

This is my first attempt at building a homemade Nerf gun. I wanted it to be able to do several key things:

• To be able to fire more than one type of ammo by making some parts interchangeable.
• To be CO2 powered, but not to the point that it weighed a ton.
• To be compact enough that it could be attached to other guns, mainly my LS.
• To be able to prove that a good ball gun can exist.

I think that I achieved it tonight. I haven't named it yet because I figured I would leave that up to all of you.


This is what it looks like fully assembled.


This is its appearance when the center cylinder is removed.

Listed below are the parts that are neded to make this. Use the numbered picture as a guide:

• 1" PVC Slide Repair Coupling (SRC) #1
• 1 1/4" PVC Piping #2
• 1 1/2" PVC Fitting #3
• 1 1/4" PVC Coupling #4
• 1 1/4" PVC End Cap #5
• CO2 Tire Inflator #6
• Schraeder Valve (take it from an old bike tire and cut it out, leaving a 1/2" wide ring of rubber attached) #7
• Epoxy suited for PVC
• Some of OMC's PETG (to be included later this week in the design)

It is quite simple to put together, but it will take a full day to let the epoxy cure completely. First you need to unscrew the two halves of the Repair Coupling. In the center of it is the slide assembly. Put this somewhere safe as it is lubricated and you will need it. The center piece is what will convert it from firing balls to darts. Then you take the PVC coupling and glue it to the back end of the SRC. It will not be a snug fit as the parts are not normally compatible, but epoxy can fix that. While this is setting, take the 1 1/2" fitting and glue it to the front of the SRC as shown in the picture. The larger end is threaded so it is the end to attach and epoxy to the SRC. This will be the receptacle you will place Ballistic balls inside to launch them. Place this piece aside and get the Schraeder valve, a 4"-6" piece of 1 1/4" PVC piping and the PVC cap. These parts will comprise your airtank. Drill a hole through the cap just big enough to push the schraeder through, smear some epoxy on the excess rubber and insert the valve through the inside of the cap. The excess rubber will need to be held down against the inside of the cap when you glue it. I used a 35mm film canister and a vise to ensure that the excess rubber was glued to the wall of the cap. This is as far as you can go until it sets a bit.

Come back in about 2-3 hours and you can continue. Take the PVC cap with the now attached Schraeder valve and add a little bit of epoxy to the outside around the valve stem to ensure an airtight fit. Now take the length of PVC piping and insert it into the coupling that you attached earlier to the SRC. Before you apply the epoxy though, attach the cap to the other side of the piping. Now epoxy the coupling to the piping and the piping to the cap. When this sets, you will have the airtank completed.

That's pretty much it. Allow the epoxy to cure for 24 hours before firing the gun. Now firing it is not as simple as just hooking up the inflator and pulling the trigger. I already tried this and the ranges on Ballistic balls are as bad as any ball gun made by Nerf. This is why you use the SRC. At the point where the two pieces screw together, place about 3-5 layers of plastic bag. Bags from Target work well, but you can also try garbage bags. Don't use those crappy plastic bags from the supermarket. Once you have the bag pieces, pull them over the front half of the SRC and screw the two pieces together. The plastic acts as a burst seal. When the pressure inside the airtank is stronger then the tensile strength of the plastic, it will rupture and the ammo will launch.

I haven't measured the ranges yet as it is dark out, but my house is about 45 feet long. I fired the gun in the basement of my house standing at one end, figuring into it that my body and the gun took about 3 feet of distance. The ball flew from one end of the house to the other and didn't touch the ground. I held the barrel as level as I could. I will do more distance measurements when I get the PETG in and build the dart assembly.

the glue spots are horable. you should of used PVC cement. it looks cleaner.

[PvtMcFlurry]

I'm going out on a limb here. But I really don't think he cares about aesthetics right now. Great job so far badger.

Edited by Pvt.McFlurry, 25 January 2007 - 08:53 PM.

[badger]

Mr.Grimm, on Jan 25 2007, 08:15 AM, said:

the glue spots are horable. you should of used PVC cement. it looks cleaner.

Your grammar and spelling are horrible, unlike my design, which is horable, according to you. This is not the final product. I just made the barrel for firing CDTDs today. The pictures will be posted this weekend along with some ranges on both the Ballistic Balls and CDTDs.

I don't really care if PVC cement looks cleaner. I prefer to work with epoxy. It's amazing how a little sandpaper can make anything look smooth. If you think that this is how it will look when I show it to other nerfers, you are way off. I am going to sand every rough and bumpy section down, then my girlfriend is going to give it a good a quite viciously evil paintjob.

By the way, thanks McFlurry for the compliment.

Also Grimm, you didn't need to quote my entire entry to post up a response. It is the only thing in this topic with pictures. Everyone would know what you are referring to.

[sam]

Looks amazing. What size PVC are you using for your ballistics ball barrel?

[badger]

I used a 1 1/2" PVC fitting. The end that is attached to the front of the SRC is the threaded end. The ball fits snugly into the other end, so there is no need for an o-ring or gasket like most mass-produced ball guns use. It worked out very well. It just took me 2 hours trying out different piece combinations at Home Depot to find one that would work out well. I will be posting the pics of the micro barrel either later tonight or tomorrow, depending on my level of fatigue.

I will also be going out with my camcorder and the gun to do some range tests tomorrow, provided it isn't too windy.

[badger]

*BUMP*

This is an update for everyone that is interested.

I finished building the barrel for the dart firing poriton of the gun. I used a 3/4" to 1/2" PVC reducing coupling, a threaded 1/2" coupler, a CPVC 1/2" coupler and a 6" piece of OMC's PETG that he is selling. Here are the pictures. The inflator is not included only because it is in use for other purposes.

This is what the gun looks like when the micro dart assembly is installed.

This is what it look slike when the dart assembly is extended forward. I'll explain it below.

We went out last Saturday to her old high school to do some range testing. They have a parking lot that has red lines painted on it in 5 yard intervals. It is exactly 100 yards, just like a football field. They use it for their color guard to practice on while the football team practices. We also brought a 15 foot tape measure with us to first verify that the lines were accurate and to measure the shots that don't land on a line.

I had noticed when doing firing tests in my basement that the internal slide assembly will push forward when you fire a shot. In other words, it will go from looking like the first picture before firing, to looking like the second picture after the dart has been fired. I wanted to see which position it needs to be in to get the best ranges.

I fired 5 shots with the barrel pushed back, 5 shots with the barrel extended and 5 shots with it removed to get ranges on the Ballistic Ball barrel. With the measurements on the balls, my girlfriend pointed out the initial impact point of each ball to get an accurate reading. Each shot used a garbage bag as the burst seal with 6 layers per shot. I am working on a quick change version of the burst seals to make reloading a little bit easier. We will be doing another range test soon with hopefully video as well. The sun is pretty much gone when I get home from work, so we can't do it until the weekend.

5-shot series, 6 layer seal, barrel assembly extended
1: 53 feet
2: 50 feet
3: 52 feet
4: 52 feet
5: 48 feet
Average distance=51 feet

5-shot series. 6 layer seal, barrel assembly retracted
1: 87 feet
2: 92 feet
3: 93 feet
4: 97 feet
5: 90 feet
Average distance=91 feet, 10 inches

5-shot series, 6 layer seal, Balistic Balls
1: 57 feet
2: 60 feet
3: 55 feet
4: 58 feet
5: 61 feet
Average distance=58 feet, 2 inches

I'm quite satisfied with these ranges. I've proven that you can make an effective ball gun with decent range and I successfully built my first homemade. Please note that Ballistic balls are affected even more by wind due to their slightly porous surfaces and their size, plus the fact that the ball isn't spinning when launched. The only ball gun that I've ever seen where the ammo is not as affected by wind is the MP-150.

[Rambo]

Very nice. Will this make an appearance at the war next week?


The only thing "horable" is your spelling Grimm.

[badger]

It definitely will, as will my modded TTGs, if they get done. I will also be bringing along two little creatures of mine. Their names are Boopsie and Muffin. You will see what they are next week. They are so cute!

Thansk for the compliment and the paraphrased quote of a comment I made to Grimm, who is now gone.

[sam]

Looks awesome. I'd also a 1/2 PVC coupler so you can fire megas, or jumbos. a 1" PVC barrel would also be cool so you could fire mongos.

[badger]

sam, on Feb 3 2007, 04:46 PM, said:

Looks awesome. I'd also a 1/2 PVC coupler so you can fire megas, or jumbos. a 1" PVC barrel would also be cool so you could fire mongos.

Though the idea has merit, I'm only interested in firing micros. It makes for less ammo I have to worry about carrying, plus most of the nerf wars that I have been to seem to be swaying towards using micros exclusively. I am also making it that all of my guns that I mod will fire the same type of ammo.

[Rambo]

badger, on Feb 3 2007, 03:36 PM, said:

It definitely will, as will my modded TTGs, if they get done. I will also be bringing along two little creatures of mine. Their names are Boopsie and Muffin. You will see what they are next week. They are so cute!

Thansk for the compliment and the paraphrased quote of a comment I made to Grimm, who is now gone.

He got banned?

Your girlfriends are named Boopsie and Muffin?!?!?

[badger]

RAMBO, on Feb 3 2007, 05:13 PM, said:

badger, on Feb 3 2007, 03:36 PM, said:

It definitely will, as will my modded TTGs, if they get done. I will also be bringing along two little creatures of mine. Their names are Boopsie and Muffin. You will see what they are next week. They are so cute!

Thansk for the compliment and the paraphrased quote of a comment I made to Grimm, who is now gone.

He got banned?

Your girlfriends are named Boopsie and Muffin?!?!?

LOL! No, her name is Maryann. You will meet them at the war next week.

As for Grimm, he received his 9999 special from TIS in the Off-Topic forum. Check out the topic about the NFL playoffs to see where it happened and why. Now, back on topic.

[Rambo]

I know her noob, we met at Reckoning.