shandsgator - without including the blaster, I would pay around $60-110 for that mod. The ammo part does concern me however, perhaps with a cheap enough Chinese knockoff you could do some ammo-wasting without much regret.

I need to find someone to do this mod and make 4-5 of them. I don't have the tools or the time!

I think you may have to pay more than $110 per blaster, but I could be wrong. I would imagine materials alone would add up to about $75.00 per blaster (not including 56 balls).

Is there a write up to how he made those mods?

I cannot re-confirm. Please scratch my attendance.

I'm in, with a possible +5. I'll let you know if things change. If you need more certainty, let me know.

I absolutely, positively cannot make it on the 19th. I will be able to make it on the 5th, though

Its a good point but the good will that I went to for the first time today ripped me off and were not good on the phone the worst part is they happen to be not white and im not being racist im noticing there behavior.. There just fitting the stealing and ripping people off sterotype and its just not my fault there gloomy and rip you off when they have the chance kind of people. So I dont think making friends at that store is an option. If you really want details on the story just tell me or private message me.

 

Forget I tried to offer advice in this thread.

Very, very cool. It makes the Demolisher look the way it always should have.

Looks like the war was absolutely "chilled to perfection"

you guys make it sound like i can't get within 25 yards of my targets without getting wrecked? so are we having 50-75 yard engagements?

Just listen to Langley and other experienced members here.

And by "high crush," that means less space b/w the flywheels, so the dart gets deformed more as it passes through the flywheels?

What affect do flywheels and cages have on precision and accuracy of the darts?

Use a gimbal. This is the best Nerf video I've ever watched: 

I have Uvex safety glasses...the type you'd see in a chemistry lab, but they're not full on goggles. I don't use the pair I have since the fit isn't as good as my T-72 Remington shooting glasses. The T-72s are less than $5 from amazon.com and meet/exceed ANSI Z87.1 requirements.

As a side note, I wear my safety glasses AT ALL TIMES while at a Nerf war. The moment I arrive to the moment I get back to my car to drive home, I wear them because there are so many careless nerfers who forget their blaster is loaded or point their barrels in any random direction and have accidental discharges.

Interesting data

I will concur with your conclusion that dart fit has a significant impact on velocity. Of course, my observations are far less scientific than yours.

I would suggest that maybe you can upload .xls and .doc files instead of the newer MS Office versions (.xlsx and .docx)?

Why wouldn't this work with #8 washer slugs? They work just fine in stock CPVC barrels, so they should work just fine in this throat barrel, right?

 

Also, is this kind of like a reverse chicago style barrel?

If by Chicago, you mean the ESLT style of barrel, with 3 inches of CPVC, and then really loose (~.527 ID)  barrel, then I suppose this is applicable, however I classify that as a "Telescopic" barrel because of the changes in DIA as well as material used. So perhaps? but they are otherwise unrelated.

 

I've had trouble feeding #8 slugs through my CPVC barrels, just my experiences.

 

Ok. I suppose I was lucky enough to get an extra wide ID batch of CPVC a while back.

3s motors on 2s voltage asking for less amps makes a little sense to me now, but wouldn't 2s voltage keep 3s motors from hitting its ideal critical rpm? Just trying to learn.

 

Yes, but THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON WHY I RUN 2s voltages - to avoid too high flywheel RPMS, which create inconsistent dart patterns.

Wouldn't "2s motors" like meishel 2.0 perform better at 7.2 volts than "3s motors" on 7.2 volts?

If not, what is the upside of running 3s motors on 7.2 volts over 2s motors?

 

I know nothing about meishel motors.

 

As for running 7.2v (or a 2s equivalent pack) on a "3s" motor, like MTB Rhinos, I don't know of any advantage besides not having flywheels run so fast that they shoot darts that are highly inaccurate.  When I planned my MTB Rhino'd Stryfe, I intended to run it off an 8 cell AA pack. I tested it on 6, 7 and 8 cells and noticed that I got only marginally reduced range on 6 cells (as opposed to 8), yet the precision (groupings) of my darts were much better on 6 cells than 8.

Its not so much that I'm afraid of the outcome of overdrawing the batteries, I just want to be able to supply the amps the motors demand for best performance (I know it sounds funny after saying I don't want lipo)

 

Eneloops can supply the amps for MTB Rhino motors. 

I'm def not trying to put down your setup, or say you are wrong in anyway. Its just that on my quest to try to find a power supply for a 2s motor setup that fits in stock location (aside from lipo, including setups that require an expanded battery tray: 2-3 imr, 4,6,8 nimh aa) I've been told multiple times it will not provide the current or amps needed to run correctly without overdrawing the batteries and just looking for clarification and suggestions.

I really really want a battery setup that fits the stock battery tray (2-3 imr) or fits stock tray with expanded cover/door (6-8 nimh aa) that can supply the amp current needed to run 2s motors (honey badgers, meishel 2.0 etc) without overdrawing my battery setup

 

Assuming you're running MTB Rhinos or equivalent motors, what you've been told is wrong. If you don't believe me, fine, but my setup works very well and there's no disputing that. If you're curious about using Eneloops with Honeybadgers, I can't say, since I don't use those motors and don't know what their specs are.

 

I'm pretty sure this is why most people will recommend possibly over-specc'd batteries. It's better to spend an extra $1-2 and get a battery that is way to big than to save the cash and burn your blaster up. My pack is like 1000 mah 25-35 C for a total of 25-25 amps continuous,  way more than the burst rating of the rhino's I'm using.

 

I'll need to spend some time looking at this stuff. Sounds like soldering batteries is something I might be able to do, if my iron is up to it.

 

You should. It's well worth the internet deep dive as knowing how to solder is very useful for a variety of hobbies. I learned how to do it years ago when I was into R/C cars. I've used it with my other hobbies, including video games, Nerf and other R/C vehicles (boats, subs, helis, etc.)

Only reason I ask about current/amperage is due to always reading that imr batteries can't supply enough current/amps to run any 130 motor (besides stock) effectively, causing slow spin up of flywheels which I want to avoid which is why I'm looking for options besides imr (and lipo packs) but I'm not sure 6 eneloop aa's can deliver enough current leading me to think ill need to use big r/c sub-c nimh packs...

 

I use Eneloops and get perfect performance with MTB Rhinos. Will you get "better" performance with SC NiMH packs than a AA Eneloop pack? Probably, but will it be noticeable? I doubt it (I couldn't tell the difference when I compared the two types of packs) and even if you can tell the difference, it won't be much. If it's that important to you, by all means, use SC packs.

I'm interested in going to an enloop-style setup for ease of charging and battery care, but I've got a question that I haven't found a good answer to that you might know.

The Lipo packs peopl use usually have current ratings in the 10-50 amp range. The AA enloops appear to have them in the 2-4 amp range. Without doing a *massive* parallel pack, how do they compensate? Are the stats wrong? Sounds like you're getting decent performance, what's the deal?

Can you link batteries and a charger you'd use? Do you build packs or keep them as AA format in cell-holders?

 

There's more to picking a battery than it can "handle" a certain number of amps. It's not like a battery pack will work a certain way up to a certain current draw, then suddenly stop working - it's more of a continuum of gradually decreasing performance as the current draw increases. That's why discharge curves from a battery analyzer (such as the CBA IV; I have the CBA III and love it, but I don't have the time to analyze loose cells or packs right now) are so important. The discharge curve I referenced in an earlier post in this thread is really helpful because you can see how the voltage sags as the current increases.

 

So to answer your question, when you compare a "10-50" amp draw 2s LiPo to a 6 cell AA Eneloop self-made pack, it's not like LiPo pack will appear to be much more powerful or more durable. First of all, a pair of MTB Rhinos is not pulling as much current as you think. I don't have the specs handy, but I know the stall current per motor is about 8 amps. So the most your're going to need from your battery pack is 16 amps and that's only for a split second when the flywheels start up. When the motors are running between shots, the current will be far less, probably under 8 amps for both motors (my guesstimate).

 

Second of all, Eneloops can handle more than 2-4 amps. Sure, you'll get voltage sag (see the reference chart for exact numbers), but that doesn't mean they won't work. I wouldn't push Eneloops past about 10 amps, continuous, though. And don't forget that you're not running your batteries at full tilt all the time. Most matches end after 5-20 minutes (in my experience) and during that time, you're not running your flywheels at full speed (or shooting) that whole time. So even if you were pushing your Eneloops too hard (which in our case would only reduce their life from 1,000 or so cycles to a few hundred, which is still a long life), the pack has plenty of down time to cool off. And even if your game lasts much longer (like HVz), again, you're not revving your flywheels continuously. 

 

As for the cells I use, I use the white 2,000mah Eneloop AA cells you can get from Amazon. As long as you buy them from a reputable seller, you're getting good cells (generation 3 or later). I'd avoid the black Eneloops Pros since they have higher internal resistance. Yes, the Pros have more capacity, but 2,000mah is more than enough for a day's worth of Nerfing so there's no need to boost capacity by 25% at the expense of higher internal resistance, i.e. less ability to handle higher current draws.

 

As for my charger, I use a peak charger that can handle a various number of nickel cells. I use this:

 

http://www.electrifl...d/gpmm3152.html

 

It's been discontinued and there are other options out there. You need to have an external power supply to use it; I use a CPU power supply.

 

I also build my own packs. Do not use a battery holder like you'd get from Radio Shack. Those things are very inefficient and could melt in our application. I wouldn't use those holders if I needed to pull more than a few hundred mah from my cells. 

 

I'm pretty sure this is why most people will recommend possibly over-specc'd batteries. It's better to spend an extra $1-2 and get a battery that is way to big than to save the cash and burn your blaster up. My pack is like 1000 mah 25-35 C for a total of 25-25 amps continuous,  way more than the burst rating of the rhino's I'm using.

 

I'll need to spend some time looking at this stuff. Sounds like soldering batteries is something I might be able to do, if my iron is up to it.

 

If you have a 1,000mah LiPo that's rated for 30C and you pull 35 amps worth of current from it, it's not like it will spontaneous explode or catch fire like you just reached critical mass with fissionable material and started a runaway nuclear reaction. You probably have at least a few seconds before anything really bad will happen; you might damage your pack, though.

Do you happen to know the "c rating" or current/amperage availability of your 7.2v 6 eneloop aa pack?

Last thing I want is to deliver enough voltage but not deliver the current/amps needed and overdrawing the batteries, like I would most likely do with imr's

 

There is no "C" rating because like I said before there is no "cut off" unless the battery pack has some built in safety mechanism and most don't. And I have no idea how LiPo manufacturers decide what their "C" rating should be. I mean, what's the cutoff for deciding the battery pack can't handle a given current? The temperature of the pack rises 5 degrees within 60 seconds? 120 seconds? How about 15 degrees in 2 minutes? Or maybe it's that the cells will catch fire within 90 second? Or to be more serious, maybe it's a certain amount of of voltage sag under load? If they don't tell us, who knows? I'm not aware of some industry standard, but if there is one, someone can feel free to enlighten me.

 

As for your limiting the current but not the voltage, you're going to have to deal with some sort of regulation or fancy bit of electronics that I know nothing about. I suppose some cells will have some sort of safety shut off, where the cells will self-shut down if you pull too much current from them, but I understand those trustfire/IMR cells with that sort of protection (assuming it exists) will constantly shut down if you pull more than a few amps from them.

 

Meishel Motors

 

Re: Other post:

 

Thanks for the charger links, it's tough to figure out what works/doesn't in the crazy diverse world of hobby RC power systems.

 

My read on current vs. voltage was that you can pull whatever current (within reason; always within reason though that's never really explained and I feel it could be important when we're talking about drawing potentially 25x the given rating) you want out, but that it just diminishes your runtime. As you say, runtime isn't really that long in our case, so NBD, but it is my main concern.

 

How do you build packs? Solder wire and heatshrink, probably, but do you have good examples of how it'd be done?

 

I suppose your way of wording it is correct, or at least in the ballpark. Yes, as long as the batteries can handle it, they will provide whatever current the motors need. If the motors are asking for more current than the cells can handle, they will fail. How they fail depends on the type of cells you use and the speed at which the "overdraw in current" takes place. If it's gradual, you simply diminish the overall life of the cells. If it's fast, you risk fire (at least in lithium cells), meltdown or leakage. I've destroyed nickel based cells (on accident and including Eneloops) by accidentally shorting them out and they didn't catch fire, only got really hot.

 

As for building your own packs, doing a search on youtube should give you plenty of info. But yes, heatshrink, solder and r/c quality wire and plugs will get it done. You'll need a powerful-enough soldering iron, though. I recommend at least 40W when building battery packs. Hakko and Weller are great solder iron brands.

http://nerfhaven.com...tryfe/?p=350442

Your "2s voltage" nimh pack has the current/amperage to run a "3s motor" effectively?

 

Of course! And it's certainly better than IMRs.

 

People push high end LiPo packs and those batteries are certainly good for a MTB Rhino'd Stryfe, but what really matters is whether the batteries can support sustained current draws. Those "stall" currents only last for a few fractions of a second while the flywheels rev up and in between shots, you don't need those fancy LiPo packs to ensure your flywheels can accelerate back to full speed quickly. So why do people recommend high end LiPos? I have a few theories.

 

First, LiPos are far more finicky and dangerous than NiMH and NiCd (nickel based) batteries. If you pull too much current (within reason) from a nickel based battery you know what you get? A battery that is too hot to touch and a reduced battery life. You do that with a LiPo, and you have a ruined battery pack or fire. So when you work work LiPos your margin for error is far less than with nickel batteries.

 

Second, ignorance. People will follow the instructions of another without understanding why a certain recommendation is given. 

 

Third, spec-whoring. This is related to ignorance, but someone will want to use the biggest, coolest, neatest part even if it's unnecessary so that they can tell themselves they have the "best." There's nothing wrong with this and I'm guilty of that too with some of the things I build or buy, so I'm not knocking it.

 

Example: people recommending 14 or 16 gauge wire for rewired Stryfes or other flywheel blasters. Totally not necessary. A nice r/c hobby quality 18 or 20 gauge wire will do just fine and produce no noticeable drop in performance compared to thicker wire. The bonus is that it's much easier to work with. Am I saying a 20 gauge wire performs exactly the same as a 16 gauge wire, all else being equal? No, of course not, but generally, you're not going to notice a difference in your MTB Rhino'd Stryfe.

 

My 6 cell AA Eneloop powered MTB Rhino Stryfe shoots 100+ FPS darts (Gen 3 Koosh) in sub-zero temperatures with 20 gauge wire and Micro Deans connectors. Also, after about 4 hours or so of constant running, my 2000mah Eneloops cells still have about 70% of their rated capacity still left. It's performance is lightyears ahead of a stock Stryfe (obviously). If I used 16 gauge wire and Deans Ultra plugs with a 2s high end 3000mah LiPo that can handle 80C current draws would I get better performance? I assume so, but I doubt it would be more than slightly noticeable, if it's even noticeable at all.

 

From my research, what really makes a difference is the darts and flywheels, as they affect the accuracy and precision of your shooting the most.

Good to know, thanks.

As a proud owner of a stampede and a 3d printer, I can back that up. The breech of the stampede starts to jam at higher voltages upwards of 16v, and the gears are not made for modders, as I've had to print over 3 new sets of gear out of abs plastic. Planning to get metal gears soon.

 

Slightly more on topic, the decision between flywheel or elec springers comes down to your playstyle. if you rather to have more darts and less accuracy, flywheels. however if you want more continuous, accurate fire, go springer. 

 

So is it fair to say your modded Stampede shoots more accurately than a modded...Rapidstrike or Stryfe? If so, how big of an accuracy difference do you see?

[pmed] OP

I'd like to add a caveat to what limegreen nerf said: the Koosh darts (gen 3) tend to helicopter or fish tail or spin out of certain flywheel blasters, such as the Rapidstrike. They're usable and better than stock Elite Nerf darts, but they're not ideal. This is one reason why I'm switching my stock primary from the Rapidstrike to the Stryfe.

I will do my best to make this Nerf war; I should be able to make it. It'll be good to play this style of Nerf again and see some familiar faces.

Consider me confirmed. I'll have some #6 and #8 slugs available for sale, too.

Great war! 

 

Thanks for hosting, Langley! That school is a pretty nice location.

Bumping - One week away. Looks like it's going to be a relatively small but solid group. I'm going to call the parks dept on Tuesday and find out of Babbage is reserved, but I'm 90% sure we'll end up at John Addams Elementary.

 

Has the location been finalized?

I will definitely be making this war, but my mcmaster order has been delayed and will not arrive in time. Does anyone have a wye I could buy/borrow on the day of? A [k25] would be ideal as well, but not necessary.

 

Thanks!

 

I might have a [k25] I could let go for a buck or two...or maybe it's a [k26]. I'll get back to you in the PM.

And if you anticipate too high, can you save the money?
If to low, than what?

Just seems, very risky. 

 

I imagine you can use the left over funds along with cash in any retail establishment that accepts AMEX.

Is aluminum used as the plunger tube material because it has more consistent ID tolerances?

I too, wash my washers well before using them for slugs.

My primary is a Buzz Bee branded blaster with heavy modifications, but the sidearm I carry is a SplitFire.