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Elec springer vs flywheel


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#1 DjOnslaught

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 07:12 PM

So which is better. I am currently working on a odd integration (swarmfire+firefly) and I'm curious which type of battery powered firing system is better
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#2 An unnamed cell

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 09:22 PM

To start off, I'm not incredibly experienced with electronic modifications and what have you; but I'm going to give it a shot anyway. 

 

Anyway, I think it depends on what you're looking for and how much time/effort/money you would be willing to put into the project. 

 

Electric springers probably have a lower potential fire rate (when compared to that of flywheels), but greater potential ranges (with the right springs and gears). Flywheels on the other hand, are probably cheaper, faster, and easier to install. 

 

Idk. Just an educated guess from the little experience I have.

Hopefully someone else will explain this better than I did.


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#3 justaguycalledv

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:13 AM

This seems to be a classic debate that has been going on for a bit now. Electric springers like the Stampede are often seen to give a more consistent power per shot. Flywheels are seen as being able to get higher power. With the springers you can upgrade to get more power of course but you then have to up the voltage to keep from drastically reducing your rate of fire. Doing both can give you very consistent shots at some moderately good rates of fire. With flywheels you can do the host of well-known mods: voltage and motor upgrades to increase power. switch upgrades to decrease time to maximum rev speed  and improve consistency in the speed of shots, and even cage replacements to induce spin on darts and such.

It's really a matter of what you feel comfortable doing. The biggest thing about voltage mods is having to do some rewiring to replace the crappy wire with 16 gauge or higher wiring which can handle the higher voltage. Replacing switches isn't too hard but will probably require some minor epoxy work internally to place them properly. Replacing springs is straightforward as well but you have to always remember to upgrade the catch spring as well if needed as they are usually the weak point in the system with the improved force.


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#4 DjOnslaught

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:32 AM

I have many years of electronics work under my belt so the electronics mod aspect I'm solid on and can do everything shy of arduino (haven't learned the programming aspect yet, the hardware part is simple).

The elec springers I'm looking at don't have catches so it wouldn't matter there (stampede n swarmfire) just like the flywheel blasters don't have them.

I was more curious which people looked at from a use standpoint (stock or modded) as far as preferences
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#5 Silly

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:51 AM

I like elec springers more because in general they have more comfortable shells, better range, and a controllable ROF. Flywheels are good for spraying darts down the feild though.

Elec Springers: Lower ROF, more power, generally more comfortable shells, and more accurate.
Flywheels: faster ROF, sometimes less power, Less accurate.
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#6 jwasko

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 05:16 PM

The elec springers I'm looking at don't have catches so it wouldn't matter there (stampede n swarmfire) just like the flywheel blasters don't have them.


Pretty sure a stampede does have a catch.

 

(the following is all 2nd hand info)

Stampedes have a breech so they are more likely to jam than any flywheeler. Probably even more so if you try to create a sealed breech.

All electric springers use a gearbox. Any spring upgrades will definitely strain the gears and, if a gear or even the gear box itself are damaged, there are not common replacements

 

The stampede's plunger tube is close to that of a NF if I recall correctly. It's probably not going to ever get the power of, say, a well-modded longshot even if you got a super gearbox and put all sorts of springs in there.

 

The springers probably will give you more consistency/accuracy like others have said, but a relatively simple rapidstrike mod will probably give you similar or better FPS and ROF while being more reliable. Or you could go all out and try something like https://www.reddit.c..._printed_parts/

 

Really it's up to how you want to nerf, and how much work you want to put into the blaster.

 

 

Now if you could motorize something like a +bow...because even with 3 stages of brushless flywheels Eli's blaster was still only hitting 165-180FPS.


Edited by jwasko, 28 October 2016 - 06:36 PM.

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#7 Meaker VI

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 02:48 PM

A modded flywheel blaster will crush a modded electric springer blaster. You can drop new motors, switches, wires, and a battery into a flywheel blaster and get 110-150 FPS - doing the exact same thing in a springer will just break the gearbox. You'd need to find or fabricate your own gearbox that can handle the power if you wanted to get it close. In theory if you did you could motorize something like a plusbow or Caliburn or whatever and get 200+ FPS, so springers typically have the capacity for better range/accuracy/power, but motorizing them isn't nearly as easy.

 

All the modern flywheels setups run 'supercritical' - which means they're spinning faster than what is needed to get the dart up to maximum speed from that setup (IIRC, in most of the flywheel setups used in mods today, the flywheels should put 500-600 FPS into the dart, but since it's just touching it for an instant that much power cannot be applied and the dart ends up going 130 FPS or so).

 

To cover the bases, a homemade springer like the Durendel or Caliburn should hit ~200FPS, and an air blaster can put holes in people at 400+ FPS no problem (Power there is really only limited to how big a tank, how much pressure, and how long a barrel you have). An electric springer is basically limited to stock power (50-80 FPS), and maybe you can improve the ROF without breaking it.


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#8 MagnusBuildsComputers

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 06:39 PM

Pretty sure a stampede does have a catch.

 

(the following is all 2nd hand info)

Stampedes have a breech so they are more likely to jam than any flywheeler. Probably even more so if you try to create a sealed breech.

All electric springers use a gearbox. Any spring upgrades will definitely strain the gears and, if a gear or even the gear box itself are damaged, there are not common replacements

 

 

As a proud owner of a stampede and a 3d printer, I can back that up. The breech of the stampede starts to jam at higher voltages upwards of 16v, and the gears are not made for modders, as I've had to print over 3 new sets of gear out of abs plastic. Planning to get metal gears soon.

 

Slightly more on topic, the decision between flywheel or elec springers comes down to your playstyle. if you rather to have more darts and less accuracy, flywheels. however if you want more continuous, accurate fire, go springer. 


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#9 shandsgator8

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 08:19 PM

As a proud owner of a stampede and a 3d printer, I can back that up. The breech of the stampede starts to jam at higher voltages upwards of 16v, and the gears are not made for modders, as I've had to print over 3 new sets of gear out of abs plastic. Planning to get metal gears soon.

 

Slightly more on topic, the decision between flywheel or elec springers comes down to your playstyle. if you rather to have more darts and less accuracy, flywheels. however if you want more continuous, accurate fire, go springer. 

 

So is it fair to say your modded Stampede shoots more accurately than a modded...Rapidstrike or Stryfe? If so, how big of an accuracy difference do you see?


Edited by shandsgator8, 29 October 2016 - 08:20 PM.

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#10 Meaker VI

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Posted 29 October 2016 - 08:48 PM

 

So is it fair to say your modded Stampede shoots more accurately than a modded...Rapidstrike or Stryfe? If so, how big of an accuracy difference do you see?

 

I'm not sure that is fair to say, as the Rapidstrike or Stryfe should be hitting higher FPS, and thus, greater ranges. A *standard* springer (Retaliator) *might* be more accurate than a flywheel at range, but an electric springer probably not.


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#11 MagnusBuildsComputers

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 07:34 AM

 

So is it fair to say your modded Stampede shoots more accurately than a modded...Rapidstrike or Stryfe? If so, how big of an accuracy difference do you see?

Using FVJ darts from china, at 20m, I get my shots within a 9 to 10 inch group, and with my rayven, (180 motors, lipo ect) I get them in about 11 or 12 inch group. Its not all to much, but in game it feels more accurate and gives me an edge.


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#12 shandsgator8

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 11:30 AM

Good to know, thanks.


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#13 DjOnslaught

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Posted 30 October 2016 - 06:17 PM

Yes jwasko the stampede has a catch. I looked back and noticed it did. As for the argument between the 2 it basically come down to preference. I'm not the rush in and dump my clips as fast as possible type. I tend to try and be more surgical with my shots.
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#14 MavMaster

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 02:46 PM

Wow, I didn't know anybody ever talked about whether flywheel or spring is better.

(That was sarcasm)

I have to agree that overall, Flywheels are better than electric springers.  Flywheels jam less, have a faster ROF, are simpler, cheaper, easy to mod, etc.  But as always, they are load, and you have to rev them before firing.  That is probably their only disadvantage, but its big enough that it can't be said that Flywheel is always better.  I think electric spring makes way more sense for revolvers and belt fed blasters.  Both could be made very simply, and would allow for a better trigger, and/or no rev time.  Unfortunately, there have been no great belt fed blasters, as the Vulcan is the only electric spring belt fed blaster, and it's over complicated and old.  So there is still potential for electric spring if you ask me.

(by the way, I like the vulcan, I made a M60 vulcan, but it's too old to be much good.)


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#15 DjOnslaught

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 07:19 PM

Wow, I didn't know anybody ever talked about whether flywheel or spring is better.
(That was sarcasm)
I have to agree that overall, Flywheels are better than electric springers.  Flywheels jam less, have a faster ROF, are simpler, cheaper, easy to mod, etc.  But as always, they are load, and you have to rev them before firing.  That is probably their only disadvantage, but its big enough that it can't be said that Flywheel is always better.  I think electric spring makes way more sense for revolvers and belt fed blasters.  Both could be made very simply, and would allow for a better trigger, and/or no rev time.  Unfortunately, there have been no great belt fed blasters, as the Vulcan is the only electric spring belt fed blaster, and it's over complicated and old.  So there is still potential for electric spring if you ask me.
(by the way, I like the vulcan, I made a M60 vulcan, but it's too old to be much good.)


The havoc was a vulcan reshell
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#16 MavMaster

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:54 PM

Havoc?  That is just a repainted Vulcan isn't it? 


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#17 Serene Haze

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 07:57 PM

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I'm probably just going to parrot everyone else here, but I'll try to keep it brief.

 

Electric Springers/AEG

       -Slower rate of fire depending on system. (Sometimes)

       -More consistent because of mechanical nature. (Arguable.)

       -Certain blasters (Stampede, Vulcan) are larger, heavier, and have less minimization potential because of the size.

       -Certain blasters more complicated to modify. (Swarmfire is a notable exception to this.)

       -Higher power requirements? (I think. Take me with a grain of salt)

       -Limited availability of mechanical parts. (Wiring kits are easy to find, but gears are nearly impossible. This is a big one concerning the Stampede.)

 

Flywheels

     -Can achieve very, very high rates of fire. 

     -Repeated shots will lower performance marginally because physics.

     -Can achieve smaller sizes because of easily movable components. (Swarmpistol/Rapidpistol for example.)

     -"Easier" to modify. Still requires special tools but overall the systems are much simpler compared to AEG setups.

     -Readily available replacement parts, seems like the motor drought has passed.

     -Sweet lord they can get loud.

 

That's everything I know for sure-ish.

 

Also whey I say "modify" I mean full rewire, new battery, ect. IMO, If you're gonna mod any of these blasters you might as well just go all the way instead of mucking around with WhateverFires and IMR stuff,

it just seems like half-solutions that aren't worth the money.

 

 

EDIT: Forgot to finish my post. Overall I'd say go with a flywheel, especially if it's your first mod. I'm not gonna take the time to mess with my stampede until I can get some better gears for it. Flywheels are really simple systems and have incredible potential for modification and customization. If you're dead set on a springer-style blaster then I'd say just cut the electric out of it and get an Elite Alpha Trooper or slap a pumpgrip on a Retaliator/Longshot. Would probably last longer and it's way easier to work with.


Edited by Serene Haze, 01 November 2016 - 08:02 PM.

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