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A New Ls Modification.

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#1 OfAllTheNerf

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:00 AM

Hello everyone.

This project has been done for quite a while now.

The reason I havenít posted it yet was because I had planned to do it to my Crossbow, until I decided it would be extremely large on it.

Much thanks go to Falcon for thinking up this crazy scheme. I probably wouldnít have been able to think of it myself.




But enough talk.




Here it is.

Finesse:



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Internals.

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More pics.

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As you can see, I integrated a DTG onto the front of an LS. Inside I ran a metal wire from the DTG trigger out to a keyring. I wanted a separate trigger for the DTG, since it has more shots than the standard front gun integration; in a war situation, I might want to save my main gunís shot, but rush at people firing the DTG.

I believe it is the best integration (for the LS) yet. I now have twelve main shots (thanks to Slugís mags), and ten back up shots! Itís perfect for rushing, and could probably take out a small group of people.

But the ingenuity of it is really in how itís primed. The DTG is attached up-side-down, so that I can use the cocking handle to cock it, like a pump action shotgun. The method of cocking is what makes it special, and all credit for this goes to Falcon. The screws ending up on the same side after the DTG was flipped is like a sign it was meant to be.

Due to the DTG being a good deal bigger than the front gun, it does make the gun a little front heavy, but with a strap (not shown), the front weight is still bearable even when removing a hand to cock the main gun.

Questions? Comments?

-OfAll'

Edited by OfAllTheNerf, 16 July 2007 - 09:13 AM.

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#2 foamforce123

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:10 AM

That is quite cool! A bit ugly but it looks very functional. Nice job!
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#3 BustaNinja

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 09:48 AM

As to being front heavy when you cock it, if you keep your front hand on the front grip and cock it with your shooting hand then you don't have that problem, and it really doesn't sacrifice much speed because you really,don't need gor LS ROF because of your absolutely ghetto (in a good way) front gun integration.
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#4 stewy

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:18 AM

WOW!

That thing is a beast. It looks kinda funny but the Rof will cover that up.

I would hate to go one on one with that in my face.
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#5 Flaming Hilt

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 10:45 AM

Oh shiza. It's awesome. I love it.

I actually have to say I would like the extra weight in front. It makes it looks so much more... well I don't know... (I'll think of the word eventually, I've just been a little slow lately) : o( But anyways, point and fact of the matter is: flipping good job.
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#6 camo

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 11:52 AM

How heavy is it all together? You could even put some weights in the back, by filling in the PVC with something if it won't make the gun really heavy.
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#7 b00m13

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:22 PM

It's a bit bulky but I like the way you've kept the shotgun cocking method.
The glue that's visible on the side looks kind of like hotglue, did you use epoxy underneath it?
Did the DTB handles have to be glued to the sides? (If there's any small visible cracks, it could be patched with other materials too right?)
Also, can someone please refresh me on why there's pvc tubing in the rear of the LS? I remember it serves a purpose but I can't remember what it was.

Pretty good integration dude, now integrate the red DTB with something red... like the Titan :D
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#8 AODL

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 12:35 PM

Now that is fuggin' awesome. This totally blows the sidearm integration away. The DTG makes it look like something Rambo or Arnie would use.

Edited by AODL, 14 July 2007 - 01:58 PM.

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#9 baseballnolan5

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 01:43 PM

Thats cool. Definitly beats the sidearm intergration. Boom the pvc is to prevent the stock from collapsing while cocking a gun with a new spring. Why is there pvc(I think) in the DTB turret

Edited by baseballnolan5, 14 July 2007 - 01:44 PM.

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#10 Pineapple

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 01:44 PM

Now that is fuggin' awesome. This totally blows the sidearm integration away.


Agreed with AODL. Takes the (almost) impossible to improve "sidearm" attachment, and replaces it with a clean and functional 10-fold increase in back-up firepower.

I think it looks just peachy. I never judge a modification on looks anyway, so even if it were fugly, it wouldn't matter if the performance increased as it did. If anyone says it's too heavy, they ought to start liftin' some weights and doin' some push-ups. That's a small amount of weight to add for the benefit it brings.


Is that the DTG grips I see as filler for the gaps between the LS and DTG? Clever! It took a second look for me to see that.


Welcome to the LS modification sticky. It is worthy. :D




-Piney-
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#11 nerfturtle

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 02:48 PM

Beautiful, I can't take my eyes off of it. I am really lost for words, this is very impressive, and it looks so, so, I'm with Flaming Hilt, I'll get back to you.
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#12 Forsaken angel24

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:15 PM

A primary, integrated into another primary with two fucking rails!
That means at any time of day you could add a crossfire to the top and bottom of the gun.
Mod that dart tag, Breech that longshot and mod a couple of blue Crossfires and you have a Doomsday machine.
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#13 Dangaard

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 04:40 PM

I absolutley love that LS, the only thing I would change is connecting the two triggers, other than that,

fuggin' awesome.

Keep up the good work!
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#14 badger

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:00 PM

I have to disagree Dangaard. His design makes alot more sense when it comes to keeping the trigger systems seperated. If they were to be connected, you would have to prime both guns after each shot, increasing reload times and making you more vulnerable to other shooters. By keeping the triggers seperate, if he runs out of shots in his clip, he can use the DTG as backup fire until he get a chance to load a new clip, or vice versa.

Very nice design and very clean. This is the way I would do an integration. I prefer it to be neat and clean, one of my OCD issues. I would love to go up against you on the field with that thing someday, but I have to know what mods have you done to the LS and the DTG? Ever think of doing a barrel change on the DTG, like using some PETG?

Edited by badger, 14 July 2007 - 05:02 PM.

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#15 NiteWalker

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 06:33 PM

Couldn't he just connect the triggers and use it like the side-arm integration? Meaning, prime the Longshot only, fire and only the dart from the LS will come out? Or, prime the DTG and not the LS and pull the trigger so that only the DTG fires? Then again, the pull-back of the DTG trigger is longer than that of the LS.

Also, DTG barrel replacements are only worth it if you add a stronger spring.
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#16 OfAllTheNerf

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 07:32 PM

Whoa, this topic has accumulated a lot of posts since this morning.

Thank you all for the compliments, I'm glad you all like it as much as me.

Questions:

camo, it's not really that heavy, at all. I must have been really tired the day I did all my testing with it (I haven't touched it in nearly a month), because when I was finishing up taking pictures it doesn't actually seem that front heavy at all. I can hold it with only my right hand (like I would if I was priming the main gun), without significant effort.

b00m, no the DTG handles did not have to be glued to the sides, it's purely cosmetic. The stuff around the handles is actually Goop, and I did attach the two bodies with goop (or epoxy) underneath.

nollan, that is actually CPVC in the DTB turret, and acts as an ammo holder.

Piney, thank you. As I mentioned before I don't actually think it's too heavy. I actually think I like the added weight. Yeah, those are the DTB handles :D ! I had them around after I cut them off, and thought I could improve it cosmetically. I think it actually blends in quite well. Also, thank you for adding me to the LS directory! I'm honored.

Forsaken, heh, yeah I guess I could do that (too bad I fucked up both of my CrossFire's...). I think I might make an attachment for the LS rail, and could do another integration of a CF on the bottom of the DTB, which would be permanent. But that might get a little excessive (but I like having a lot of fire power :D ). I definitely want to do your LS mod on the main gun sometime this summer.

Dangaard, and for all who think I should having integrated the triggers, the reason I wanted to have two separate triggers is clearly articulated by badger. It wouldn't work, though, as NiteWalker mentioned; the trigger pull of the LS is a good bit shorter than that of the DTB.

Badger, thank you for explaining my thinking, I couldn't have said it better myself.

NiteWalker, Badger explained why I didn't want to integrate the triggers. And you are right; the trigger integration wouldn't work.

If any one has a question feel free to ask. I think it's clear enough, but then again I did do it... :D .

Glad you all like it!

Edited by OfAllTheNerf, 14 July 2007 - 07:35 PM.

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#17 General Cole

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 07:54 PM

Wow. Very nice. Beats the friggin pants off of the side arm integration. I think a non permanently attached Crossfire would be very helpful for us with no muscle mass whatsoever. But that would be because it acts like a vertical handgrip. I could think that this could be well used with the accessory rail LS that came up a while back. I also like the simplicity of the pump and fire. I think that this could also be done with many other guns attachment style. I do like this LS integration.
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#18 AssassinNF

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:36 PM

I have to disagree Dangaard. His design makes alot more sense when it comes to keeping the trigger systems seperated. If they were to be connected, you would have to prime both guns after each shot, increasing reload times and making you more vulnerable to other shooters. By keeping the triggers seperate, if he runs out of shots in his clip, he can use the DTG as backup fire until he get a chance to load a new clip, or vice versa.


He wouldn't have to prime both guns after each shot. Connecting the triggers would work exactly like the regular Front gun integration - Cock ONLY the Longshot to fire the long shot, and cock ONLY the DTG to fire the DTG.

But leaving them seperate does make sense. That way, if they are BOTH cocked, you don't have to fire them both at the same time.

I find myself wondering why a few people called this fugly... I find it very neat and well put together. You did a great job on this.

I just have to do this... Next time I get some cash, I'll buy another Longshot, buy a pack of DTG's, and make one of these. Great Job, OATN!
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#19 camo

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 01:57 PM

How does the trigger work? And by that I mean, how well does it work, it is difficult to move your finger into the ring to shoot it?
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#20 OfAllTheNerf

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 03:37 PM

I have to disagree Dangaard. His design makes alot more sense when it comes to keeping the trigger systems seperated. If they were to be connected, you would have to prime both guns after each shot, increasing reload times and making you more vulnerable to other shooters. By keeping the triggers seperate, if he runs out of shots in his clip, he can use the DTG as backup fire until he get a chance to load a new clip, or vice versa.


He wouldn't have to prime both guns after each shot. Connecting the triggers would work exactly like the regular Front gun integration - Cock ONLY the Longshot to fire the long shot, and cock ONLY the DTG to fire the DTG.

But leaving them seperate does make sense. That way, if they are BOTH cocked, you don't have to fire them both at the same time.

I find myself wondering why a few people called this fugly... I find it very neat and well put together. You did a great job on this.

I just have to do this... Next time I get some cash, I'll buy another Longshot, buy a pack of DTG's, and make one of these. Great Job, OATN!


Yeah, that's pretty much the reason I made separate triggers.

Thank you. The only part of it that I find a bit fugly is the place where the key ring comes out, I cut off a bit too much and now there's a gaping hole, but I don't really care about a little hole if I have this beast.


Camo, It's really easy to reach my index finger into the keyring, and it moves back to it's place automatically. Occasionally it will get stuck, and the turret won't rotate (only if you don't pull it back fully the shot before), so you only have to push the keyring back in. If anyone replicates this, I would recommend using a thinner, or more flexible wire to connect the trigger. Copper wire (used for handing pictures), I find it very flexible. When I open it up to FA_24 it, I'll probably replace the wire. Fishing wire probably would work too, it would be very flexible, maybe too much. Also, it's not quite as durable at metal wire.

But back onto your question, it is quite easy to get my finger into the keyring. I don't have to adjust my hand's position on the handle. My hands are a little large, though. So if you have small hands, just make the wire a little longer. You could even run the wire through a piece of brass or CPVC once it is outside the gun, then attach the keyring. That way the keyring would be closer to the handle, and you could reach it easier.

-OfAll'
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#21 Falcon

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 04:41 PM

As I said when you first PM'ed me your completed gun, it looks awesome. At that time, you didn't have the chopped off handles attached to the sides. That looks GREAT. I had to do a double-take because I couldn't tell what they were at first.

For those of you commenting on the gun being front-heavy, I have a few thoughts on the subject.

First of all, adding weight to the back of the gun would (obviously) make the whole thing heavier all around. Granted, yes it would counter the weight in the front, but ask yourself: which is easier to rotate horizontally using the handle as an axis of rotation: A Crossbow, or a Titan? They're both well balanced and of similar length, but the titan takes more energy (and tires your hand somewhat) to turn with one hand on the main handle than does the crossbow. Adding more weight would make the already somewhat cumbersome longshot now made more cumbersome by the addition of a complete mid-sized primary into a gun that is more of a chore than a pleasure to use.

In my experience, a rifle-sized primary that it front heavy is actually helpful in many aspects. My crossbow has a Turreted Splitfire epoxied to the front, and has an offset brass barrel system as the crossbow's main barrel system. That's about 2 feet worth of Sch 80 PVC, ten brass barrels, and the guts of the Splitfire weighing down the front of the gun. But it's incredibly comfortable, and there are additional benefits. The firing of any plunger gun shakes the gun around a bit. But having the weight in the front prevents the gun from kicking UPWARD, while your non-firing hand prevents it from jarring downward. Thus, the added weight in the front absorbs much of the shock of the longshot's/crossbow's/whatever's plunger, and makes for a more accurate shot.

Ever watched olympic target archery? 3-4 foot long stabilizer bars sticking off the front of the bow make it incredibly front-heavy, but it nearly completely eliminates jarring of the plate or riser, nulling their effect on the arrow's flight. Same concept, but less anal-retentive.

Lastly (this is just personal preference, but all the same...) I've foudn that having the weight centered towards the front of my gun helps me overall during play. The gun feels more solid due to the weight on my left hand out in front. The gun seems to use this weight to naturally swing into place and lock onto targets when I don't have time to think about the shot before taking it. When I whip around a corner to pop off a quick shot one-handed (ie. without my non-dominant hand supporting the weight of the front of the gun), the weight carries the front end of the gun upward as I swing it into a firing position, and when the stock rolls up to my shoulder, the weight pushes it against me in its natural place, locking it there solidly for the time it takes me to snap the shot.

In short, I'm a huge advocate of a frontal center of balance on a nerf gun. Maybe that was a little long-winded, but I figure you'll get the idea.

Again, great work OATN. Still loving the addition of the handles, and am pleased the gun's working out for you. I just hope someday I can play against/alongside that thing.
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#22 camo

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 06:40 PM

I'm having trouble seeing where you cut the shells. Did you just cut the handle of the dtg underneath the trigger? The cut looks really curvy and inprecise.
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#23 Ccapogreca

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 07:24 PM

Thats awsome, now make a working drum mag, that looks like telekinetic's, and well words just couldn't describe it. :P
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#24 shadowkid33

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 09:07 PM

Oh my god..........that is the best longshot I have ever laid my eyes upon. Holy shit......

I just hope someday I can play against/alongside that thing.


Yeah, come to Apoc. Pretty pretty please with sugar on top and ice-cream in the middle.
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#25 bpso86

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Posted 15 July 2007 - 09:28 PM

Looks great. That thing must be menacing to have pointed at you! One of the most important aspects of nerf is waiting until your opponent reloads/isn't prepared and then attacking them (well, at least for me it is), and this nearly eliminates that.

I'm still not done with my LS modifications. I'll have another one eventually. When full time aerospace engineering courses/co-op jobs aren't ruling my life.
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