370 replies to this topic

[boom1]

Man by no means am I an expert but I would use boltsnipers ejector I mean don't fix what is not broken.

Edited by boom1, 12 December 2008 - 08:50 PM.

[Betrayal]

Um.. boom... that post you made wasn't really a necro because the difference between posts was only 16 days, but this is kinda old, don't you think?

[Carbon]

Seeing as how one of the major contributors to this thread just posted today, and that boom1 was responding to that post, it's not too old.

As far as how to attach an O-ring, I think Gyrvalcon's method is quite nice...no painful dremeling of a channel into an endcap. There's also the basic SNAP-style seal, which rork recently improved upon in his SNAPbow.

As far as an ejector, I'm inclined to agree with boom1; Boltsniper's design is a proven system. No need to reinvent the wheel unless you have to, and you can just modify that system to suit your needs.

[NerfFreak]

Well everyone, I'm off to get supplies. So far, I've decided:

-I'm going to use something like the FAR bolt, except scaled down to use 1/2" PVC shells. This shouldn't be a problem, however.

-The carrier will push down a tab that lets the shell pass out of the magtube, and when the carrier is raised, the tab is raised as well, preventing another shell from working itself under the carrier and jamming the gun.

-My plunger will not be inside of the bolt, meaning the bolt will be smaller and easier to use. The whole outer reciever will be 1" thinwall, making the gun smaller than other prototypes, which for the most part used 1 1/4" PVC.

Questions? Comments? Concerns?

[NerfFreak]

Sorry for the double post, but the FAR extractor/ejector isn't working, since there isn't enough room in the bolt to drill a hole for the spring and ejector pin. Can anyone here give me another idea?

Edited by NerfFreak, 14 December 2008 - 04:40 PM.

[angelof DEATH182]

NerfFreak, on Dec 14 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

Sorry for the double post, but the FAR extractor/ejector isn't working, since there isn't enough room in the bolt to drill a hole for the spring and ejector pin. Can anyone here give me another idea?

Perhaps this?

[NerfFreak]

Well everyone, I've solved the problem of the extractor/ejector. It's a durable, solid system, and I believe it's never been done before, so here we go:

The extractor (minus the ejector tab, just have to glue it in.)



What you see is the E/E in it's 3/4" PVC shell. The 1/2" CPVC acts as the ejector. Here's a better look.



There is 3/4 of a RFR magazine spring stuffed in there, pushing the ejector (CPVC) outwards. The CPVC was cut so only about 1/4 of the circumference acts as the ejector pin. The screw in the side is in a slot, preventing the CPVC from shooting out of the tube. What do you guys think?

As for the overall progress, only the lower reciever is left, and with Boltsniper's trigger plate system, it shouldn't take too long.

By the way, I need a suggestion for a good main action spring. I know everyone uses AR-15 springs, but since they are legally a weapon part, I may not be able to obtain one, due to my age. Does anyone have any other identical yet un-paramilitary springs?

[Chanclas]

Search 9637K26 on the McMaster-Carr website. It is what CaptainSlug used in his +Bow. It should be very similar to the AR-15 spring.

And good job with the ejector/extractor setup. I was going to suggest the exact same thing you did but I couldn't think of a spring that you could use to push the ejector.

Edit: One more thing, I congratulate you on making the receiver as thin as 1", I wanted to do that but couldn't think of a way to make the plunger and bolt work at that size. It seems you bested me at that, so good job!

Edited by Chanclas, 18 December 2008 - 08:23 PM.

[NerfFreak]

Well, you might be able to best me at that, as I might use 1 1/4" PVC. We'll see how it goes. If I can shorten the bolt, than by all means I will, and it will save me valuable space. As of now, my only concern is length. When fully put together, the gun is about 3 1/2" feet long. I'm working on ways to try and shorten it, and using a shorter bolt and smaller reciever isn't a bad idea.

[Chanclas]

Well, my gun would also be pretty long but I think that should be expected with a gun that has a tube magazine that runs long ways and has a stock that can't fit the plunger tube and bolt. See, I want to make a shotgun that is shaped like a real shotgun so the stock will be used for one thing just like the real counterpart. So with the stock, the receiver and the barrel it all comes to at least 3 feet.

With 2" long shells, if you want at least a five shell capacity, you need a mag tube that is at least 10" plus the space needed to all the spring setup to advance the shells. But this part would be under the barrel which is normally a bit longer so this can be excluded from the total length.

And if you want a barrel like that of the real counterpart--which would be quite long for a spring gun in Nerf standards--I think you'd need a plunger with at least a 3" stroke (the FAR plunger stroke is somewhere between 2" and 3" I believe). Add the space needed for the bolt, and the space needed to prime the bolt and plunger, that can easily become more than a foot.

The last thing is the barrel which can be 1 foot of the appropriate sized brass tubing inside of a PVC tube that is empty the rest the length. The apparent length of the "barrel" could be almost two feet or more.

This is all that I have to take into account whenever I come to build the entire thing. But I haven't seen your design so maybe you aren't trying to make a toy shaped like the real thing. And this of course the combat shotgun which would take away the length of the stock.

And I hope you find the right setup to keep the 1" receiver, that would be amazing.

Edited by Chanclas, 20 December 2008 - 01:05 AM.

[Flaming Hilt]

...
I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. I do hope you actually build the thing. You know, so I can take your flaws, improve upon them, and build my own.
;o)

No, really. I appreciate the credit you've given me and wish you the best of luck. What did you end up using as a shell stop?

Quote

The last thing is the barrel which can be 1 foot of the appropriate sized brass tubing inside of a PVC tube that is empty the rest the length. The apparent length of the "barrel" could be almost two feet or more.

No... that's called a loss of range. Anytime the dart goes through something and isn't being pushed by air, it's being stopped by air. Plus, if one is swinging the gun around as they fire, the dart could bounce off the inside of the not-barrel. I would recommend just leaving the space above the magazine empty.

As well as the length: Personally. That's fine with me. My definition of a shotgun includes firing more than one dart at a time, so even with 1/2" darts one would need 2" shells to fire 4 at a time. You've already done the other calculations... size doesn't bother me. Performance and badassiness does.
(and yes... yes, that is what she said)

As for spring: Go to hardware store. Find spring. Buy spring. Much better if you can feel it in your hands than order online.

[Chanclas]

Flaming Hilt, on Dec 22 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

No... that's called a loss of range. Anytime the dart goes through something and isn't being pushed by air, it's being stopped by air. Plus, if one is swinging the gun around as they fire, the dart could bounce off the inside of the not-barrel. I would recommend just leaving the space above the magazine empty.

I did think of this but I also think that the extreme size of my plunger chamber will bring the ranges back up to the standard for spring guns and I think that'll be just enough for me. If not, too bad, I just wanted to show you guys the carrier idea.

Besides, I'm not even very active with these guns anymore. I just had the sudden inspiration to build the carrier system so I designed it and got started building but this last week it has been raining so I had to stop.

[NerfFreak]

Bad news. I won't be able to work on the gun more until the snow melts or it gets a little warmer, since I don't want to go out to my freezing ass barn to just use power tools, which would help me get smoother cuts.

By the way Hilt, the shell stop is a u-shaped piece, one end under the carrier, the other in the magtube. When the carrier is pushed down, so is one end of the U shaped piece, meaning the other end is pushed down as well, letting another shell into the carrier. When the carrier goes up, so does the u-shape piece, stopping any shells from leaving the magtube. I'll try to get a paint picture up.

[nerfnut23]

NerfFreak, on Dec 24 2008, 08:22 AM, said:

Bad news. I won't be able to work on the gun more until the snow melts or it gets a little warmer, since I don't want to go out to my freezing ass barn to just use power tools, which would help me get smoother cuts.

Dude, just take them inside. If it is something like a scrollsaw or drillpress, then put a heater by it as you work. Or just wear a fucking coat!

I am about 5 minutes from Mammoth Lake, so it is as cold as Oregon. Deal with it. And you can put a soda on the porch for a few minutes and chill it. You see, cold is your friend, but is a Nerf gun's worst nightmare.

[rokor]

You're complainning about the cold now are you... CANADA! CANADA! CANADA! Yah, its really is that cold up here.

And you shoudn't let the cold stop you from working. Weather(sp?) is only a small obstacle, sometimes, because there is always a way to overcome it. And yes, I have been keeping tabs on this thread.

[CaptainSlug]

Seriously, has this thread reached its 25th consecutive page of sucking? I was kind of anticipating such an outcome 2 years ago, but this is just pathetic guys. It took a whole year to fill the 24th page.
If there is any justice in this world, then this thread will get closed.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 26 December 2008 - 12:10 AM.

[rork]

I'm just amused by the fact that if this were to actually get built, it would be obsolete by now.

[Flaming Hilt]

I'm sorry... how so? I'm not sure I agree with you.

Slug... I might have to agree with you though. Even though that would be implicating myself.
It is worth noting though, that there isn't a lot of spam. Almost every time this thread is revived there is something significant added. As well, a large part of the reason we haven't succeeded is because we shouldn't. All of the plans so far have had flaws. Even the most recent ones, which are so SO close... I don't know about the shell stop being a coathanger.

[nerfnut23]

I would use a Boltsniper bolt and shells made from brass. As for the carrier, use a ramp that has a tab in the bolt so that at the full back travel, a tab is pushed, kicking a shell into the chamber, where after the bolt starts moving forward, the tab is dropped, dropping the carrier. After firing, the bolt retracts the shell from the chamber, and the carrier pushes the next shell in, thus kicking the previous one out, at which point the process is repeated.

Edited by nerfnut23, 20 January 2009 - 11:50 PM.

[Chanclas]

Did you even read the thread?

[Flaming Hilt]

No... no, I don't believe he did.
But he seems pretty sure. I'm going to pull a backseat and ask him to do it.

In the mean time, his post has me agreeing with Piney. This thread should be closed. We've got the design -- when someone finally builds something, it will be worthy of a new thread.

*waves.*