121 replies to this topic

[CaptainSlug]

So, wait; there is no pumping required?

Unfortunately none of my guns operate on magic.
The tank has to be filled using a bike pump, compressor, or motorized pump. The instant tube fitting and check valve on the bottom of the tank allows me to fille the tank with whatever I decide to take with me. I may later decide upon a smallish bike pump that I can mount on the gun. But otherwise the tank has more than enough capacity so that I can fill it, play, then fill it again.

If I'm feeling lazy, I have a portable 12v Airman pump that I can use to top off the tank. It simply clips onto a belt loop.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 21 October 2006 - 09:28 PM.

[The Crackerjack Man]

I don’t know if you can find it at a bike shop around were you live but, their are small hand held bike pumps that you can get that are powered by little 12g CO2 cartridges. Maybe you could find away to hook one of those up.

[CaptainSlug]

I don’t know if you can find it at a bike shop around were you live but, their are small hand held bike pumps that you can get that are powered by little 12g CO2 cartridges. Maybe you could find away to hook one of those up.

CO2 and plastic don't get along very well with eachother. And I don't want to have to keep buying cartridges.

[The Crackerjack Man]

Yeah your probably right about that it would get to expensive for buying more CO2 cartages and if you can just keep refilling the tank that you have with a pump it would be a bunch easier.

[CaptainSlug]

A few people have already asked me for advice on how to make external tanks like mine so here's the basics.

All part# are references to the mcmaster catalogue which has the cheapest prices on these parts, which could be quite difficult to source from anywhere else. Home Depot DOES NOT stock things at comparable prices or quality levels. eBay is sometimes a good source for strange parts like regulators.

If you are planning on using a bike pump or the stock pump to fill your tank you WILL NOT NEED to regulate the tank output because a bike pump won't be able to fill your external tank to levels that are unsafe for the gun to operate at. The gun can operate as high as 75psi without any issues, but a bike pump won't be able to fill the tank above that pressure level.
The minimum pressure level required for firing the magstrike is around 30psi.

The essentials you will need are
+ Push-To-Connect fittings

part# 1901K22
+ Push-To-Connect Coupler (to connect to and extend the tubing out from the inside of the gun)

part# 1901K17
+ 1/4" OD tubing part# 5006K35
+ Material to make a tank (PVC pipe with 2 couplers and end caps or something else like polycarbonate or PETG)
If I make a second one of these I may make a tank out of 2" ID PETG tubing because it's cheaper than PVC, easier to machine, and I won't have to hunt around for fittings because I can just make my own out of sheet plastic.
+ A 1/4-18 NPT Pipe tap to thread the fitting holes on the tank part# 2525A113

And if you want to hook up a standard bike pump to the tank you will need a tubing to stem adapter.

part# 51025K267
This will fit into the lockable output on any bike pump since it has the same OD as a standard valve stem.

If you plan to fill the tank with a motorized pump or compressor you will also need
+ A 0-160psi pressure gauge (you shouldn't fill a plastic tank beyond 120psi)
+ A Check Valve or Ball valve (so that you can disconnect the pump source from the tank without the tank emptying)
+ A Non-relieving air regulator with 0-90 PSI output adjust
Regulators meant for use with airbrush equipment won't work as they are only regulating the flow. Relieving air regulators are more common, but will slowly empty your tank.

HPA paintball tanks or CO2 tanks can also be used, but you will need a paintball tank fitting you can adapt to the tubing, and a paintball regulator that can regulate down to or below 100 psi. If it can't regulate below 150psi you may have to use a second regulator inline that can.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 22 October 2006 - 07:06 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

I now have the PETG I need to make the clips and I have the CAD model completed. Here's the mechanical drawing I will be using the make my custom clips.
http://www.captainsl...erf/ms-clip.gif (77kb)
http://www.captainsl...erf/ms-clip.pdf (256kb)


To turn it into a 10-round clip simply remove 10 of the barrel holes and shorten the height of the frame parts and teeth by 5 inches. Inversely, add 5 inches and add 10 barrels to make a 30-round clip. And so on. The spacing of the teeth, barrels, and notches in the sides are vital, which is why I included so many spacing measurements.

I hate having to work with 1/16th" polycarbonate, but it's the easiest way to make the back of the clip and the sliding rail on the side. The "Backplate" piece glues onto the back of the "Back Frame" piece.

Tools required to make clip
+ Carpenter's Square
+ Tablesaw
+ Scrollsaw
+ Drillpress
+ 1/4" Flat-Blade Wood-Boring Drill Bit
+ 9/16" or 5/8" Flat-Blade Wood-Boring Drill Bit (bit size to match the outer diameter of the barrel material you are using)
+ Barrel material

If you cannot get ahold of PETG tubing aluminum is a very cheap alternative. Mcmaster part number 1658T49 is 8 feet of Alloy 6063 Aluminum Round Tube .625" Od, .527" Id for $6.86

Edited by CaptainSlug, 29 October 2006 - 08:37 AM.

[bigbob]

I have a few things to say. I am wondering about the air-man pump. HOw long does it take to fill your magstrike to the point you need for 20 shots? Also, how often do you need to change out batteries? As for the clip, I do not think aluminum would work. My home depot had aluminum, but it was extremely heavy and thick. It doesn't seem like the clip would be able to advance. This project looks great, I am working on a combination of this and forsaken_angels for my powerclip, only with 4" CPVC barrels.

[CaptainSlug]

The airman pump is kind of slow for filling the tank from 0PSI to 70PSI. It's piston is rather small and can't push much volume per stroke so it can take 3 or 4 minutes to go from 0PSI to 70PSI. I use the manual pump to get the tank pressure up to 40 or 50psi, then use the airman pump to top off the tank when needed.
It takes a minute or less to use the airman pump to go from 25psi to 35psi, which is the minimum level required to fire 20 darts in full auto.

The battery life is pretty impressive and can fill the tank from 0-70psi 4 or 5 times before needing to be recharged. Keep in mind that my tank is 141 cubic inches in volume, so a smaller tank wouldn't require anywhere near as much time to fill.

I have never seen a home depot that carries aluminum tubing. Aluminum is lighter than brass and the wall thickness of the tubing I recommend for making these clips is pretty thin. Standard sizes of 1/2" CPVC would have too high of an OD to make a clip for the magstrike.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 29 October 2006 - 09:53 PM.

[bigbob]

As you saw in Forsaken_angels magstrike mod, CPVC was used. I have already modified my clip and it has 4" CPVC barrels. I sawed off the front of the gun like you did, and now it can hold longer barrels. I might be thinking of something other than aluminum, so nevermind the weight part.

[CaptainSlug]

As you saw in Forsaken_angels magstrike mod, CPVC was used.

Actually it was sqiggs that used cpvc which just barely fits inside the stock clip.
http://nerfhaven.com...?showtopic=7041
I won't be able to fit cpvc into the clip I'm making because the side walls of my custom clip will be thicker.

Forsaken used brass in his and he hasn't had any problems with the extra weight as far as I've heard.

[six-five-two]

How much was the Airman bike pump? And is it worth buying?

[CaptainSlug]

How much was the Airman bike pump? And is it worth buying?

I got it on eBay for $15. I haven't been able to find this exact model anywhere else. It's the only one I've seen with both a rechargable battery and a 12v cigarette lighter adapter included.
It's definitely worth it to me, atleast for this project.

[munson20]

I just don't get what the hell that huge red thing with orange bands in the picture is? Also, is there a certain noise that the gun makes when it is fully pumped or do you just have to look at the pressure?

Edited by munson20, 29 October 2006 - 08:52 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

1. I just don't get what the hell that huge red thing with orange bands in the picture is?
2. Also, is there a certain noise that the gun makes when it is fully pumped or do you just have to look at the pressure?

1. That's the tank. It's just a long painted section of 3" SCH40 PVC pipe with both ends enclosed with a pipe coupler and pipe cap. I added a 1/4" NPT threaded hole to the center of each pipe cap and screwed in the fittings needed to link the tank to the gun with tubing. I then strapped and bungied the tank into a camelback, which normally would hold a flexible drinking water bladder for biking.
2. If the pressure level is too low the gun will just hiss and lurch until the tank pressure drops to 20psi. I stop pumping once I get the tank to 60 or 70PSI. Emptying the entire 20-round clip lowers the tank pressure by 5 to 10psi each time.

Right now I'm working on rerouting the tubing, placing the pressure gauge in a more convenient location, and maybe mounting a bike pump on the gun (not sure I want to). I will be working on the 30-round clip this week.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 29 October 2006 - 09:51 PM.

[munson20]

How does it work without a bladder, or is there a bladder in the red thing?


---Wait, I think I get it. Does that fill up the bladder in the gun once it runs out so you don't need to use the compressor during a game? Ohh, I think I get it, but wouldn't the pressure keep dropping every mag 20 so that it won't pump as fast as the last? Please explain.

[CaptainSlug]

How does it work without a bladder, or is there a bladder in the red thing?


---Wait, I think I get it. Does that fill up the bladder in the gun once it runs out so you don't need to use the compressor during a game? Ohh, I think I get it, but wouldn't the pressure keep dropping every mag 20 so that it won't pump as fast as the last? Please explain.

I removed the bladder and replaced it with a rigid wall tank.
The magstrike, powerclip, wildfire, and rapidfire20 all have bladders. The bladder is not vital to the operation of the weapon. What the bladder provides however is a lower pressure drop off rate. As the volume of air in the bladder depletes, it constracts, and as a result the pressure level of the tank drops off slower than it would in a rigid wall tank. That translates to more shots per tank fill. Just imagine what happens whenver you fill a ballon and let go of it before tying it off. Because it contracts as it empties, its internal pressure level drops off to ambient much slower than it would if it were made out of a more rigid material.

Flexible tanks are very finicky and difficult to construct.. It's also not safe to build a bladder as large as the tank I am using so I did not pursue that route. The gun is operating off of just the pressurized air in the PVC tank. If I had made a bladder tank this large I might have gained another 20 shots per tank fill.

The internals of the gun only allow a certain volume of air to escape as each dart is fired. Yes the tank pressure drops after each dart is fired. But my tank has such a high internal volume and a high pressure level that it can feed enough air to fire off 60 to 100 darts before needing to be topped off again.

Here's some basic science for you.
There are two ways of increasing tank capacity. You can either increase the volume, or increase the pressure level. Pressure and volume are basically the same thing, but increasing the tank pressure adds the need for a regulator in the loop so that you can drop the pressure level down to a level safe enough to operate the gun.
I could just as well be using a high pressure air tank meant for use with paintball guns. But in order to refill such a tank I would have to have a compressor with me at whatever war I'm attending because filling it with a bike pump wouldn't result in enough supplied volume at 70psi.

As long as the tank pressure level stays below 80psi I don't really need to use a regulator, but I put one in place anyways so that I can keep the supplied pressure level at a consistent rate (55psi) to conserve the tank pressure. And also because it will allow me to fill the tank to a higher pressure level using a compressor.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 29 October 2006 - 10:26 PM.

[elf avec gun]

Theres no bladder anymore. It is just a large tank of pressurized air.

[munson20]

Can you tell a difference in each shot, or is it such a big tank, it isn't noticeable?

[CaptainSlug]

Can you tell a difference in each shot, or is it such a big tank, it isn't noticeable?

There's no noticable difference between shots until the last 10 shots are fired. But I know where to drop-off point is thanks to the pressure gauge so I don't let the tank get below that point. The tank is by no means "empty" when the gun stops firing because it takes atleast 25psi to cycle the gun so that it fires.
Because of how the stock internals of the gun work there is very little difference in the ranges you get when firing with pressure levels above 40psi. Whether I fire at 40psi or 70psi, the darts still land in the same place. There's only a slight (rather hard to notice unless you're measuring) decrease in range between 40psi and 30psi. If you want better ranges you'll have to modify the clip or rubberband the air piston inside the gun.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 29 October 2006 - 10:33 PM.

[tucky]

That gun is pretty sweet and I was wondering if you could put a small co2 tank on the magstrike? I do not have a magstrike yet, but I plan to buy one. I am a big paintballer and I ask you this because I have air tanks to spare.

Edited by tucky, 01 November 2006 - 06:00 PM.

[meiser5]

You have been PMed Tucky...



Meiser---


P.s. Captain, that thing is a beast, you rule man.

[CaptainSlug]

That gun is pretty sweet and I was wondering if you could put a small co2 tank on the magstrike? I do not have a magstrike yet, but I plan to buy one. I am a big paintballer and I ask you this because I have air tanks to spare.

You simply have to down regulate the tank's output pressure to a safe level. Around 50 or 60psi works best. Use the appropriate fittings to hook the co2 tank up to the 1/4" OD tubing in the gun and you're set.

[CaptainSlug]

Sometime in the next few weeks I will be working on a write-up for this modification.
Not specifically the 20-round magazine modification because that's pretty straight-forward but very labor intensive. That didn't take anything except a good deal of measuring, cutting, and gluing.

Instead what I am attempting to do now is modify another magstrike so that the stock bladder will be used to fire the 20-round clip.
The main hurdle to accomplishing this seems to be the task of relocating the pump to somewhere usable. But thankfully I've figured out what kind of fittings I will need to use and will be getting started soon.

[CaptainSlug]

Well, I got frustrated with the bladder and gave up on it. But here's where you need to cut the gun body in order to expose the front of the clip, and allow a longer one to be used.

The Purple line is where you have to cut regardless. The green line is where you can cut IF you have the tools and materials required to make a forward bracing piece. The blue line is where you should cut if you want to preserve that screw hole so that you do not have to make a bracing piece.
You end up with this.

which you have to add a bracing piece to.

And now I have two hooked up to the tank.


Video:

Edited by CaptainSlug, 11 April 2007 - 04:06 PM.

[nerfer34]

Is it possible to lose a nerf battle with TWO magstrikes?

You must "pwn" in battlin'.