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#26 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:00 AM

My original thoughts that this blaster wont be much modded are even more reinforced now. To get the most maximum range form this, a barrel will need to be glued directly onto the plunger rube, sadly sacraficing the better point of this blaster, the magazine. However, all is not lost. Since there is an opening on the top, a bolt action breach could be fabricated into the gun. I am also pretty sure from the pics shown and AT2ks or Sm1500s can be intagrated into this gun for extra shots.



My only hope for this gun, after seeing the cocking mechanism's stroke is that it's an EAB plunger: really short, but really wide, so it still has a large volume.

But, then again, what's the plunger stroke on a NF? Like, 2 inches? So maybe this thing has a Nite Finder-esque plunger in it. And well modded, a NF can get pretty damn close to the 100' mark. So, maybe with a new spring and some o-ring replacement, this thing won't turn out to be crap.



And even if the stock plunger is shit, I'm sure someone could take out the plunger and somehow integrate an AT2K or SM1500 airtank in their, which would probably weild as much range as a breech modded AT2K.


As I see it, this gun is going to be sucky, but we'll be able to bring it up to useability standards. Generally, you really don't need any more than 50 or 60 feet of range. Stock ranges of 35 can definatley be inflated to 40 or 45, and probably more.



And, NinjZ, I disagree that to get the full power out of this gun you need to get rid of the magazine-related things and put in a brass barrel, and make a breech for that. I think that there will be a way to put brass or PETG into the stock breech mechanism, and have a barrel that we all think of as a 'standard' barrel mod.





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#27 ompa

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:05 AM

Sadly, I have to agree with Ninjz; I'm willing to bet Hasbro didn't use o-rings or anything, so the seals in regards to the breech won't exactly be amazing.

And looking at the gun, you can tell that it's not incredibly wide; I wouldn't be hoping for an EaB plunger in this one.

Nonetheless, the design will at least provide a new way to make breeches, for homemades and modifications.

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#28 Kuhlschrank

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:09 AM

To get the most maximum range form this, a barrel will need to be glued directly onto the plunger rube, sadly sacraficing the better point of this blaster, the magazine.


What are you talking about? Kids here make plenty of guns involving magazines now, so how should this gun be any different? If needed, we can always cover that opening to preserve air pressure, but it looks almost like the FAR, where it forces the dart forward towards the barrel before it fires. IF thats the case, then the magazine won't have any effect on whether or not the gun has good range. My only doubt is with an internal cocking mechanism like the firefly, is how hard it'll be to get bands, bungees on this damn thing. Possibly a spring replacement, but I'm too lazy for that. Eitherway, You need to have the gun in your hands before you can decide that it's shit.
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#29 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:21 AM

Sadly, I have to agree with Ninjz; I'm willing to bet Hasbro didn't use o-rings or anything, so the seals in regards to the breech won't exactly be amazing.

~ompa


I didn't mean o-rings for the breech mechanism itself. You're right though: I doubt that the breech uses o-rings for a seal. I was talking about the plunger itself, and how it probably isn't the old-style plunger head, but the new kind, with an o-ring on the front, and how those o-rings often are inadequate (Like the NF, Crossfire, Scout, Maverick, Firefly, and DTG).


I'm pretty sure the gun will definatley NOT be the 100' shotting monster a lot of people on NHQ hope it will be when modded. However, I don't think the gun will be total shit either. I think that 60' will be attainable with this gun, but it'll be difficult.

It's sad to think that with so many guns out now that 50 or 60' feet of range is considered bad, or inadequate. In my oppinion, a Nerfer can perform very well with only 40' of range. And this gun will definatley provide that minimum of 40'.






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#30 ompa

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:36 AM

Ah, I see. But fortunately, those are extremely easy to fix with a new o-ring. Those old-style plungers actually had a tube that constricted as it went along, and when kept in the non-primed position, the rubber designed to make the seal actually shrank, meaning it didn't make contact with the sides of the plunger tube walls until later. True, the pressure SHOULD make it flare out, but not always.

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#31 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 10:56 AM

Ah, I see. But fortunately, those are extremely easy to fix with a new o-ring. Those old-style plungers actually had a tube that constricted as it went along, and when kept in the non-primed position, the rubber designed to make the seal actually shrank, meaning it didn't make contact with the sides of the plunger tube walls until later. True, the pressure SHOULD make it flare out, but not always.

~ompa


Ture. Very true, but that's my point: this gun probably does NOT have the old-style plunger head. It probably has the new 'flat-head-with-an-o-ring' type on it, which means that it probably has a bad-fitting o-ring as a stock gun, which means it can have the o-ring replaced to have a better seal.

That's my point: it'll probably be like all the other recent spring-guns with crappy o-rings. And once the o-ring is replaced on those guns, they get much better performance. So, we know of at least one thing we can do to the Longshot to improve performance.



But, I'm actually interested in the pistol that comes with it! It's very very large. Even if you were to take off that stupid extended barrel over the top of the pistol, it would still be a large pistol. This thing might have some potential in it. Since it's so large I doubt it has the stupid inverted plunger setup like the crossfire or the Maverick. It might even have TTG or NF like internals.

Well, we'll just ahve to wait and see, since it seems all the non-modders get the new guns first.







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Pat

Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 11 July 2006 - 10:58 AM.

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#32 Carbon

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 11:10 AM

It's sad to think that with so many guns out now that 50 or 60' feet of range is considered bad, or inadequate.


I'll agree with you, except in the case of this gun. In most cases, 60' is fine because you have a small blaster, and can run and gun easily. Doing the same with such a large gun would be awkward, at best.

As far as moddability (is that a word?), it's all conjecture until we see the internals...but I don't have high hopes.
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#33 SgtSniper

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 11:12 AM

It might not be a good stock weapon, but IF we could mod it (say, increase plunger pull) we might have a hell of a weapon.
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#34 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 11:24 AM

It's sad to think that with so many guns out now that 50 or 60' feet of range is considered bad, or inadequate.


I'll agree with you, except in the case of this gun. In most cases, 60' is fine because you have a small blaster, and can run and gun easily. Doing the same with such a large gun would be awkward, at best.

As far as moddability (is that a word?), it's all conjecture until we see the internals...but I don't have high hopes.


Well, I'm a big guy. A 3 foot gun would actually be comfortable. And with the pistol taken off, I'd say the gun is only two feet. And two feet is small for a firearm. I mean, 36 inches isn't that long. Our AR-15 is about 38 or 39 inches long (Something around there...) and that's not so long as to be unweildy.

But, then again, I'm pretty sure I'm bigger than your average Nerfer. I doubt most people on these boards think a Titan with the pump extended and a 16" barrel is 'too small to be comfortable'.





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#35 Pineapple

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 11:46 AM

You know what the funny part about all the speculation is?

Everyone judges a NERF blaster by how it looks on the OUTSIDE.

I mean, I bet if Hasbro made a duplicate of a Barrett .50 AM rifle, bipod and all (actually the Longshot takes some styling cues from something like that), even if it only shot 35 feet, people would still buy them. Why?

BECAUSE THEY LOOK COOL LIKE THAT! B)


About speculating performance; half of the fun of this discussion is figuring out in our heads how this badboy operates. No one has said with true certainty as to the actual performance aspects of the blaster. Just like with the Firefly, everyone had their concept/ idea/ wet dream about how it was going to turn out, and for the most part, once we all got our paws on one, the borders of REALITY sink in and either limit our ideas, or eliminate them entirely.

Now you hardly hear of anyone talking of modding them. Except on NHQ, where they still want to make them full-auto, have grenade launchers, etc. (added sarcasm).

But I still like Fireflys. And I'm still going to mod my son's one in a way besides the usual barrel swap. Once the rest of the projects clear the workbench.


I KNOW someone's going to figure out a reasonable mod for the Longshot. I just hope that everyone attempts it for the right reasons. Seems that many want to rush a mod to be the "first" to do it, as though it would be cause for them to be revered as a Nerf Jedi or something. I hope that the master modders at NerfHaven, and we have the best here, would take these challenges seriously and with the intentions of making our blasters, ANY blasters, perform at their best and have a hoot doing it at the same time.

Look. Our users modded Stinging Scarabs and Nitro Quads. This'll be cake, given time.



-Piney-
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#36 ompa

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:14 PM

You too? YES! So I won't be the only one using a firefly as a primary... I just like the feel of it, and after opening it up, I realized there are ALOT of improvements to be made... I'm hoping to use my firefly as my primary (If Talio and OMC ban my homemades, which I dearly hope they don't, as none of them are as powerful as a singled AT2k anyways) in the coming East-coast wars.

If you have any off-the-wall ideas for increasing the FF's range Piney, do PM me about it, I'd love to swap ideas.

Sorry for the off-topic-ness, I was just so excited.

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#37 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:22 PM

I KNOW someone's going to figure out a reasonable mod for the Longshot. I just hope that everyone attempts it for the right reasons. Seems that many want to rush a mod to be the "first" to do it, as though it would be cause for them to be revered as a Nerf Jedi or something. I hope that the master modders at NerfHaven, and we have the best here, would take these challenges seriously and with the intentions of making our blasters, ANY blasters, perform at their best and have a hoot doing it at the same time.

Look. Our users modded Stinging Scarabs and Nitro Quads. This'll be cake, given time.



-Piney-



Here here!

Very well said, Piney. If you're going to mod something, do it because you want to make the blaster work better, and because it's fun. I can honestly say that modding is more fun than nerfing for me. If you don't want to do a good job because it takes too long, or is too hard, or 'it doesn't matter what it looks like' then you probably are modding for the wrong reasons.

Now, I think I know who you had in mind when you said that we had the best here on Nerf Haven, and I agree that they will do the Longshot justice. And the rest of us certainly will try our hand too.

EDIT: MORE OFFTOPICNESS: Opma's coming out to some East Coast wars?!?!?! GOD! I really have to get my ass down to NJ! Are you coming to Apoc this year? yeah, sorry for the off-topicness.



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Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 11 July 2006 - 12:27 PM.

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#38 Carrtoon

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:27 PM

EDIT: Nevermind. I figured it out.

Edited by Carrtoon, 11 July 2006 - 12:30 PM.

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#39 ompa

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:28 PM

I don't think it's any single person; we have alot of talent and skill here; CaptainSlug, Carrtoon, Carbon, Boltsniper (when he mods nerf guns), etc. We'll just have to see what comes out.

Anyways, For those of you living in Texas; Wal-mart has the Magstrike online for some special trial thing, where you order online and pick-up in store. Otherwise, the only way is to order it online. I would expect the Magstrike to be the same way, so unless one of you guys gets lucky like the guy at NHQ, I'd watch Wal-Mart & Texas.

Pat; I'm going to Hopkins next year, and it's in Baltimore. While I won't be able to make it out to this APOC (OMC and I had some confusion over that), I'll be doing my best to make it out to some wars next year. I'll be putting alot of effort into basically super-charging some of my guns, as I'll have a very limited arsenal that I can bring to college with me; dorm space IS limited.

Carrtoon; there's a secondary barrel below the main barrel that the pistol shoots out of. And one more conjecture; I believe the pistol is pump-action. If you look behind the yellow pump-looking thing on the pistol, you see an area of smooth plastic, which seems to be common around the areas that move (Eagle-Eye, if anyone remembers how the area around the priming handle was smooth so it was easier to prime).

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#40 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 12:31 PM

The pistol cocks via the little yellow slide on the bottom, sort of like the slide on a SSII, except the slide actually cocks the gun. And, if I'm not mistaken, the bottom barrel (The lower one on the pistol that has the orange nub, and not the weird fins/tubes/whatever those things on the top are).


At least, that's what it definatley looks like from the packaging and pictures on the first page.



EDIT: Ompa, I never thought that Piney was refering to one single person. You hit all the big names that came to mind, though. I'd also add you to that list, along with Piney himself, Renegade, and Starbuck. Although I'm sure if we sat down and thought about it, we'd have a pretty big list with a LOT of names.



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Pat

Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 11 July 2006 - 12:40 PM.

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#41 Uncle Hammer

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 01:00 PM

Ompa I thought the magstrikes would be in texas stores beacuse of the same online thing, but sadly their not. But then again If I ordered one it would take about 3 days and it would be in my nearest store. I guess it's just on pay online and they'll send you one. As oppose to sending them out to all the stores across texas.
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#42 murakumo32

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 01:10 PM

...CaptainSlug, Carrtoon, Carbon, Boltsniper..., etc...


Did you just go through the members list, picking out veteran modders, forgot Boltsniper, put him in, and just said "everybody else=etc." B)
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#43 ompa

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Posted 11 July 2006 - 02:50 PM

Most definately not. Actually, I didn't really think about it, I was just running off a mental list.

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#44 Carrtoon

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 01:19 AM

He opened it!

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Look how big that plunger is! I'm thinking over 100!!!
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#45 NinjZ

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 01:36 AM

I dont know about 100', but the tube does seem pretty big. Things are looking up for the LS now. I'm still going to wait untill Ompa or someone gets their hands on one before I make m final decision.
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#46 NerfMonkey

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 02:40 AM

Did anybody else notice in the other pics on NHQ that the plunger stroke looks to only be about 3 or 4"? That's not from looking at the movement of the bolt, I looked at an internal picture and the distance from the back of the plunger tube to the catch mech doesn't look to be very far.

The plunger reminds me of that of a Maxshot. I've got just the spring for this gun.

Carrtoon: 100'? Maybe singled but that would be pointless. With the clip system intact, I'm thinking maybe 70', optimistically. Barrel mod to the clips, possible spring replacement, this is all speculation of course but with a plunger stroke of that distance, and with a somewhat shitty seal with the clips, it would suck. But with a new spring and clip mod, that range seems possible to me.

But, that trigger worries me; it's so long it looks like it might snap or bend with a spring replacement or maybe even just with repeated use. I don't know but it bothers me how long and thin that rod on the trigger is...

Thanks for posting the pictures here guys!
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#47 Warlock

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 05:29 AM

Did anybody else notice in the other pics on NHQ that the plunger stroke looks to only be about 3 or 4"? That's not from looking at the movement of the bolt, I looked at an internal picture and the distance from the back of the plunger tube to the catch mech doesn't look to be very far.

The plunger reminds me of that of a Maxshot. I've got just the spring for this gun.

Carrtoon: 100'? Maybe singled but that would be pointless. With the clip system intact, I'm thinking maybe 70', optimistically. Barrel mod to the clips, possible spring replacement, this is all speculation of course but with a plunger stroke of that distance, and with a somewhat shitty seal with the clips, it would suck. But with a new spring and clip mod, that range seems possible to me.

But, that trigger worries me; it's so long it looks like it might snap or bend with a spring replacement or maybe even just with repeated use. I don't know but it bothers me how long and thin that rod on the trigger is...

Thanks for posting the pictures here guys!


70' is still respectable and honestly, I think this gun looks absolutely badass. Kinda reminds me of a G36 when the scope is taken off.
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#48 ompa

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 09:46 AM

Good-bye Firefly. I'm sorry, but sometimes, size DOES matter.

Damn that thing has a huge plunger. The barrel is going to take some ingenuity to create, but nothing I know NH'ers can't handle.

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#49 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:21 AM

Did anybody else notice in the other pics on NHQ that the plunger stroke looks to only be about 3 or 4"? That's not from looking at the movement of the bolt, I looked at an internal picture and the distance from the back of the plunger tube to the catch mech doesn't look to be very far.


The plunger stroke on a BBB is only 3 1/4", and well modded, a BBB can get upwards of 90' (If it's very well done. Average is probably 75' or 80').



And as to the thin little trigger: yeah, it does look like it could wear out, but it's probably very easy to reinforce with either some sheet metal, nails with the heads cut off, or a stiff piece of wire. All and all, this gun is looking better all the time.


Dare I say that if you're crazy enough to get rid of the magazine system and single barrel it, you'd get Crossbow-esque ranges?!!?!!? But, I doubt anyone here would be crazy enough to ruin the main selling point of a gun just for some extra range. Wait...uh.....scratch that.






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#50 SgtSniper

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:13 AM

Yes, I agree with pat. The Longshot will be better if it is modded.
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