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[evolution] - Stage One


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#26 merlinski

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:18 PM

The only thing that goes on in this "community" anymore are off-topic discussions, the same old questions about the same old mods, and a lot of "what do you think is the best gun EVAR????//".


One thing that you may have not noticed. We don't even have an off-topic section. It's a site focused not on the community, but on Nerf. You said you could count the number of people who still contribute on 1 hand. We already have 9 people (my last count) as staff members at NE, who all contribute new content.
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#27 rawray7

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:32 PM

to tell you something, the one thing i can think of right now that would substantially evolve nerf would be getting more wars started up around the country. Tour de Nerf baby, get people to use the forums to do something useful to nerf: nerfing. locate a bunch of people around the country who have a place to nerf, and organize a huge tour of wars going coast to coast. kick it off with a YANO and end it with a NJNO. now, i doubt anyone has the money to do that, but i'll tell you, that's what evolved nerf would look like. evolved nerf would get people off the forums and into the game.
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#28 The Infinite Shindig

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 10:13 PM

Well this is turning out to be a rather interesting conversation. The entire reason why I took part in this project (NE) is because I wanted to see what some of us could do for the community. I really don't think that this is a bad thing, but I'd certainly like to try and actually see things for myself. You guys are at a different viewpoint than some of us, and I guess it puts viewpoints at odds. I like your viewpoints a lot though, that's why I come here so often. I'd like to at least try and give something back to the community. Call it whatever you want, but I'd like to give something back to a hobby I've had for almost three years now. Let me put things this way:

1. Just because I have jobs at two (maybe three) nerf sites, doesn't mean that I necessarily enjoy them the most. This site is where I enjoy going to more than anything. You guys know what you're dong, are funny as hell, and are much better to read than 90% of the other members in our community. Plus every major war that happens in our small community is organized on your forums; that definitely says something. I might even say that I prefer your site over all the others. I respect what you guys do and I don't think NE is out to destroy any site in particular.

2. The other thing is that I find it a tad funny how many of the people I work with for this Nerf stuff, I have more experience than. Maybe it's lack of actual war time that makes some people see things differently. Evil and I spoke about this extensively today. In now way I am pointing anyone out in particular, but it's a little funny when you put things in perspective. God, I can be so nieve.

3. I need a war more than ever and I just had one yesterday. APOC is going to be a great day. I'd rather not discuss this topic there either.

4. God is shooting people with stefans fun.
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#29 Sandman

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 11:39 PM

4. We think you people are taking this whole "Nerf Internet Community" thing way too seriously. Here's a thought: There IS NO "Nerf Internet Community".

Spoon, no offense, but you've really got to take a step back and look at your post(s) when you say that. I'd really love to argue all your points, but I don't feel there is a need to until the site is released in full.
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#30 Spoon

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 11:45 PM

Well I tell ya what Merlinksi, all of that is nice to hear. Like I said in my previous posts, I'd LOVE to be proved wrong about all this. If I seem excessively cynical and skeptical about all this it's because a LOT of people have promised stuff like this, put up a flashy intro page, and then never really done much else. Or they've launched the site and have it just as quickly vanish from the radar due to lack of interest, lack of NEW content, and lack of updates.

I still don't think we are focusing enough on the real newbies of Nerf. Any new person would come to any of these sites, be really confused, get yelled at for asking questions, and then leave thinking the whole thing is stupid. There are no intro to modding guides, there is only one guide to hosting a nerf war (mine), and really very little content that is at all interesting to anybody except already-hardcore nerfers. I hope you guys put more emphasis on these kinds of issues than other sites have, because THAT'S what we need to grow this "community". If it's just a bunch more of the same KINDS of things we already have, it's only going to interest those of us who are already into all this in the first place. And thats kind of against the whole point.

Hey if nothing else look at all this controversy as free publicity for your site.
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#31 Spoon

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 11:57 PM

Spoon, no offense, but you've really got to take a step back and look at your post(s) when you say that. I'd really love to argue all your points, but I don't feel there is a need to until the site is released in full.

Bite me. I never post anything I don't stand behind. I'm not saying I'm always right, but I'm always honest, so you guys can kiss my ass if you don't like what I say. If you want to bitch out and prove me wrong on everything I've said then go ahead and show me. Based on what you guys are saying maybe you've already thought of all this, maybe you've outsmarted us all. Maybe you're right, I HOPE you're right, but I don't believe in giving people credit based solely on promises. I don't even see why you're complaining, all this discussion is just a huge hype machine for your site anyway.

As for my belief that the "Nerf Internet Community" is a LOT less than people hold it up to be, I still agree with that. Our "community" is the same group of people, with vary little variation of who contributes anything. Our community never really changes, it's stagnated. And MOST importantly, it doesn't really ADD anything to the game. It's best and really sole function at this point is in organizing large wars. Ok great. Aside from that and the occasional mod from Cxwq, not a lot happens here that truly impacts Nerf and the game in any way for us. The Nerf Internet Community doesn't make Nerf more fun for me. I'd much rather be PLAYING nerf than talking about it. I truly question whether thats true for a good portion of the people on these (and other) boards.
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#32 Zero Talent

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:01 AM

Zero, I love ya', but shut the fuck up. I entertain no notion of veteren/noobie staus. I haven't since before any of you knew me, and I still don't. Does that mean I like all of you? Fuck no.

I know you've never condoned the "veteran" status some people have tacked on you, and I wasn't trying to imply that with the comment "Veteran Haven." This is simply an observation, and I know you have nothing to do with it aside from the fact that you wanted to create a better forum set to your own rules. Some people simply have this impression of NH, due to the fact that the "well known veterans" almost exclusively frequent this site... Centrally for the fact that they made it, but a reputation is a reputation. For example, a quote of one of the NHQ forum-goers:

"NHQ has newbies, NH has... Vacc."

I'd like to see the whole veteran crap die, too. It's a silly school yard psychology that creates needless alienation and ass kissing.

As to the conglomeration; I suppose I didn't think enough about staff cuts, I just ignorantly assume we're all similar enough to coexist. It takes an odd person to want to engage in such silly activity as Nerf has been made into on our sites.

In fact, when we were beginning the site, I figured we may as well just make contributions to NH, to make it the site we wanted (In terms of content), but a lot of the NE staff seemed to prefer a new site... Creative control is an odd quirk.

Sorry for stepping on toes (or other extremeties..), I honestly didn't mean to.

Nobody is doing anything with ...there is STILL no SINGLE PLACE a new nerfer can go to get up to speed on all of this shit.

Actually, this is really the only thing I saw in NE, and the only thing I really see it useful for; Compilation of information. Right now, I wouldn't call NE's content realizing this goal, in any way (A lot of content, I guess, but be honest and realistic guys), but the system it's based off of is useful for this purpose. As I said before, NH could support the same thing, with a few changes, but feh... We'll see where this goes. For tyros, I wasn't thinking so much "Newbie Guide" as "Nerf Accronym Index," "Mod Index" (Multiple entries per gun, on the same site), "Materials List" (Detailed info on available materials for mods and homemades), "Techniques" (Simple things lost in the translation in simple words such as 'Glue a 1/2" PVC endcap into the 3/4" PVC' and such.), "Barrel/Ammo Combinations" (With range comparisons for multiple guns), "Member Directory," "Tool Index," and other such karp. Things that might just be useful, and can easily be appended.

I'm starting to lose my attention span, but I'll say this now!... .... ....Ah, yes, any imagined NIC should not be treated as such, otherwise you get these silly inter-member politics, such as the "status" karp that Vacc and Spoon are so vehemently mentioning. I agree with you guys on that, definitely... And most of that other stuff... NE may not be able to make itself useful, but as I mentioned before, "It's worth a shot." Besides, Nitti does seem to treat it like his pet project, so in the end, it will at least have helped someone learn PHP, if nothing else.

I'm really losing my attention span, and for this, I apologize, but I'd like to sum all this stuff up in a concise format. Multiple Forums = Mostly dumb, but perhaps necessary for individual taste. Content compilation = Posted Image. Status = Silly, and unsupported by really any of us here (Simply a side-effect permeated by different generations of members). Vacc & Spoon = Unnecessarily annoyed by so simple thing as an attempt at a positive outcome. We hear you, but we're going to see where this thing goes.
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#33 Cadmond

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:15 AM

Why.. you all lack so much faith.

But, me saying this might lead to me eating something I don't really want to eat. So uh..

Bendable?

Anyways..

1) the NIC, or whatever you people want to call it (non-existent for example.. which would mean that I'm posting to a bunch of robots! OH GOD NO!) only really needs one set of forums. Only one. Non.

2) the NIC wants content. I say they're stupid, but I honestly need things to do such as make content.

3) Nerf Evolved has content. Original content infact, Most of which I'm assuming you've never seen spoon. Unless you've been hacking the ftp or something.

4) Nerf Evolved's main goal is to provide content. The forums are just another way. And sure, it may not work, but theres still a chance that it may. Is there really any reason for you to make assumptions on something you haven't even seen yet? That's like saying your chistmas present is going to be a kitten.. saying it in July.

This is just a site. This is just the internet. This is just information.
Oh no! it bit you!
Yeah..

I'll attempt to leave it at that.. and most likely fail due to someone quoting me and argueing all my nonsense.
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#34 VACC

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:39 AM

You eat cock
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#35 Spoon

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:49 AM

No Cadmond I'm not going to quote you and argue you're points. I'm just going to call you an asshat and then ignore you.

You guys need to quit getting so goddamn offended by my (and others') skepticism. What exactly do you expect, for us all to believe all this hype and buy into you're ideal new site? You need to give us some more concrete reasons than that. And like I've BEEN SAYING, I hope you do. I'd LIKE to see the site become everything you say it will, but until then I'm not going to believe you're promises of a new NIC dawn based on your status or whatever the hell else. You can hit random keys with you're toes and call it content, it doesn't mean anybody is going to want to read it, or that it will be anything new or interesting.

So come on people quit this hype crap and just open the damn site and lets get this experiment moving. Now you fuckers have piqued my curiosity.
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#36 ZATZAi

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 10:30 AM

Geez you guys, you're all being so serious anout a site that isn't even fully out yet! :blink: Pretty silly if you ask me, NE is not designed to compete with NH if your worried about that, though I seriously doubt that you are. NE is a bunch of good content from what would have gone into little sites scattered across the net, put into one big Nerf Site.

And yes, this is more of a programmin venture for me than anything else, but that's not to say that I don't like Nerf as well.

I'm amazed but not suprised by the reaction to NE by some members of NH...

Oh well! No reason we can't peacefully co-exist like everyone else on the internet, no need for this to turn into a rivally between site members, like with NO and NC...
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#37 ZATZAi

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 10:48 AM

Spoon:

all this discussion is just a huge hype machine for your site anyway.


You're absolutely right, and I can't thank you enough for that. I wonder if any of "My Staff" as I'll refer to them here one time and one time only are truly offended by what you've been saying Spoon. I know I haven't been even a little offended yet, I like a good argument! :blink:

But on a serious note, if you guys have a serious problem with NE that really has you riled up here at NH, just IM or email me to talk about it. I don't mean this ongoing discussion of course, but if something truly in need of dealing with come up in the future. The door is open for you to let me know so we can work any problems out.
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#38 VACC

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 11:15 AM

I would just like you to stop eating cock...I think if you could just do that, than we could work all this out.
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#39 Evil

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:23 PM

I would just like you to stop eating cock...I think if you could just do that, than we could work all this out.

Wow, somebody's getting a hug tomorrow at Apoc. :blink:
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#40 Howard

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:28 PM

Shut Up Matt.

You guys know how you say that no one posts useful content on the internet? Well, Maybe since this system allows the people to do as little work as possible, except for posting their discovery/unique mods on a forum, that the admins can take it from there, and the ease of doing this will lead to more people dabbling in doing their own mods, and helping out the community? I really didn't read all of this cause I don't really care how the whole NE thing is gonna turn out. I'm really surprised at the crappishness thus far, and hope that it doesn't continue.. But only time will tell.
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#41 Spoon

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:45 PM

I know I haven't been even a little offended yet, I like a good argument! :blink:

Good for you. My goal is not to offend anybody (ok, maybe Cadmond). My goal is to get people talking about these issues which I think are very important for us. And because I'm not very mature, my method to get people talking is to yell. For me, Nerf Evolved isn't really a huge deal in itself, it's simply a prime example (and therefore a target) for some of the larger issues that I see affecting our so-beloved Nerf Internet Community.
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#42 Diablo

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:30 PM

Just a little FYI, I'm involved in this whole NE thing, despite the fact I didnt change my signature.....Now for what I wanted to say....

I think that you guys (meaning the NE "opposers") are acting a bit childish. Why are you making assumptions about something you've never seen? The only thing I agree with out of all of your posts is Spoon's statement about wanting to be proved wrong, I respect that. Everything else is all assumptions about something you have never seen. I really think you should give us some credit. We said we had a lot of content, so why not believe us? It's so much easier to oppose something than it is to agree with it, why not step up and take our word for it? We're not going to lie to you, what good would that do?

Well, you'll all see later on today when NE finally get's up and running.
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#43 merlinski

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:35 PM

I know this is looking pretty far down the road, but if the site starts to succeed getting large amounts of content, and forming the foundation of a comprehensive guide, would any member of this site (cxwq, spoon, vacc) even considering submitting content like the occasional article or mod?
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#44 rawray7

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:12 PM

i can't speak for them word for word, but why would the people who run NH put content up on NE? i mean, maybe if they really want to, but it's like the owner of Time magazine writing articles for Teen People or something. wouldn't it just be easier and more practical if the admins of this site put stuff up on this site?

spoon, vacc and c; if i'm completely wrong, feel free to correct me.
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#45 Groove

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:31 PM

I think that you guys (meaning the NE "opposers") are acting a bit childish.

Childish? Nobody started calling anyone names until, well..you just started.

Why are you making assumptions about something you've never seen?

Point in case being, most of us have seen this before. I'll say that again: most of us have seen this before. That doesn't mean we haven't taken a look at it. I'm looking over it right now...see? Weeeee. Read Spoon's posts please. He's not making assumptions and posting irritable crap about your site, or coming off as an old man sitting on his front porch yelling at kids as they walk by (well, maybe he is...). Well, aside from that - if you are going to feed the hype at least show us something that's never been done before.

The only thing I agree with out of all of your posts is Spoon's statement about wanting to be proved wrong, I respect that.

Good for you.

Everything else is all assumptions about something you have never seen.

Uh...no. Read above, please.

I really think you should give us some credit. We said we had a lot of content, so why not believe us?

It's not a matter of believing you or not, that's totally irrelevant to the argument. It's hard to give a certain group credit when a large majority of their posts revolve around hype.

It's so much easier to oppose something than it is to agree with it, why not step up and take our word for it?

I totally disagree. I think it's easier to "go with the flow" than it is to swim against te current. If you are going to allow yourself it "take someone's word" for everything, and not question something once in a while, you my friend, will learn nothing more than what you see right infront of your eyes.

We're not going to lie to you, what good would that do?

YOU LIE!!!!! NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!
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#46 merlinski

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:51 PM

Groove, you haven't seen it. At the time you wrote that post, the site was not online. Sure, you've seen the section of the forums that we have released. But what you can't see as of now is the content that we've compiled. You haven't seen it, simple as that, because no one outside of the project has seen it.

And rawray7, I was asking because Spoon was talking about the goal of a really good guide for people who are just starting, and that guide would be a lot more complete if we had some of his articles as part of it.
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#47 Groove

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:06 PM

I saved the site to my HD last night (as luck would have it) just incase my cable would be cut off this morning (as luck would have it, also) as a result of the construction going up in my neighborhood. Right now it's in my folder of Cheat codes for JKII, ETM, and other pages I have archived just because my cable in this new neighborhood is so fucked up it's not even funny.

I was referring to your site in general, not the specifics merlinski. You can classify almost any site in a genre, whether it be based on it's content, the way it's run, and/or the forums and activities that go on there. I think everyone here on both sides of the argument is falling victim to assumptions (myself included). I'm waiting for the content to go up. I am aware that the content has yet to come up...
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#48 Diablo

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:20 PM

Groove, how can you say that you're not assuming when you never saw the site? The only thing up is the forums, the site itself has not been released. And without seeing the site, all you COULD do was assume.

Oh, and about the name calling thing. Last time I checked, I said your actions were childish, not yourselves.

One more thing, about agreeing being easier. When someone is trying to get you to agree with them, it takes Facts and actual Work to do so. While all opposing takes is a simple "I don't believe you". I think the affirmitive side of any argument is a LOT harder, since they have the burdon of proof.
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#49 Cadmond

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:22 PM

Most of the people against NE are saying the same thing.
"put up, or shut up"
or maybe not against.. but the skeptics.

Agreed.. but instead, everyone shut up, until we put up.

Hopefully, this will be the last post until zatzai goes "Nerf evolved is released! *link"
And then we can all bicker based on facts, not assumptions.

Which probably won't work at all :blink:
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#50 cxwq

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 05:22 PM

Agreed.

I think perhaps the people who seem to be against your site are really more opposed to the hyperbole that has preceeded your site actually opening.

You have to admit that comments like "Currently, NE has a huge amount of content" and "the software to do so simple has nto existed for any forum before..." are going to stir up some irritation (at best) in the absence of anything being online.

Merlinski: Probably not, though I can't say for sure. My goal for NH is to have a similarly complete array of content. I've asked repeatedly for people to help me build it but it turns out most people aren't really interested in helping a site where they don't get a title like ``admin'' or ``moderator'' for their effort. I guess they hold out for a site with a fully developed caste system.

Zero: I think you're trying to knock down the disadvantages for combining into one forum without adequately expounding on the advantages. Besides, if me and Matt and Andy and Spanky all decided to mash our sites together, 1/3 of our members would abandon us in favor of the site that pops up a week later. Most of the people at NHQ won't tolerate swearing or flames. Most of the people here won't tolerate blatant stupidity and couldn't stop cursing for a whole post even if they wanted to. How in the world could even 80% of the NIC be happy at one particular site? Look at the copy of this thread on NHQ for the only example you need to demonstrate how different the user base is from NH.
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