69 replies to this topic

[TimberwolfCY]

I've been foil fencing for about a year now; I've got an E rating in the USFA. I love foil fencing; I may try epee at one point, but I'm not sure; if I do, it will be to cross-train for foil. I definitely plan to take up saber when I've got more time and someone to teach me. I've also done kendo a couple times informally: that's a blast, but it would cost a rediculous amount of money to get the equipment together, so I don't plan to do it anytime soon.


Me stabbing my buddy (I'm the one of the right with the shoulder patch).

As far as clubs/costs/etc., a USFA membership is $50 a year if you guys are still interested in competing; if I got a C rating off the bat (Cx) I'd keep it up, lol. Actually, ratings don't disappear after a set amount of time; they reduce a letter for every five years (maybe three; can't remember right now, but it's a sizable amount of time), so you've probably still got your C, and if not that a D, which is still respectable. As far as clubs, a lot of schools have simply clubs (instead of programs) that are a lot cheaper to attend; you might want to look around at the local colleges/universities (check fencing.net and USFA too, they have a lot of resources for locations, as does askfred.net) if you're still wanting to do it.

Edited by TimberwolfCY, 26 September 2005 - 06:25 PM.

[Death]

I've been foil fencing for about a year now; I've got an E rating in the USFA.  I love foil fencing; I may try epee at one point, but I'm not sure; if I do, it will be to cross-train for foil.  I definitely plan to take up saber when I've got more time and someone to teach me.  I've also done kendo a couple times informally: that's a blast, but it would cost a rediculous amount of money to get the equipment together, so I don't plan to do it anytime soon. 

As far as clubs/costs/etc., a USFA membership is $50 a year if you guys are still interested in competing; if I got a C rating off the bat (Cx) I'd keep it up, lol.  Actually, ratings don't disappear after a set amount of time; they reduce a letter for every five years (maybe three; can't remember right now, but it's a sizable amount of time), so you've probably still got your C, and if not that a D, which is still respectable.  As far as clubs, a lot of schools have simply clubs (instead of programs) that are a lot cheaper to attend; you might want to look around at the local colleges/universities (check fencing.net and USFA too, they have a lot of resources for locations, as does askfred.net) if you're still wanting to do it.

Hehe, someone should yell at your buddy-- if he rolls his back ankle, like that, he's likely to break it.

I fenced a bit of foil, for a while, but I've preferred epee since I started. I actually only fenced foil competitively once, and only because a member of our foil squad just decided not to show up, we had more than enough epeeists, and I was the only epeeist who owned a foil.

Edited by Death, 27 September 2005 - 08:12 AM.

[TimberwolfCY]

Yeah, that picture was taken near the end of last school year; we were all getting pretty lax near the end. His (my opponent's) girlfriend had just gotten a shiny new digital camera, so she brought it by to try it out. We got about 30 pictures; we staged a few for the sake of looking decent in case I wanted to put some up somewhere; the porblem is, most of the staged ones look real, so I can't remember if that one was staged or not! My point is, he normally doesn't do that, particularly in his parries; indeed he often corrects me on what you just said, lol. Anyway, Kevin's a great fencer; he'd probably have his D by this point if he had the equipment to compete in epee, though he just got it, so we'll see what happens. He's a good foil fencer too, but I usually just slightly edge him out in matches because he tends to over-extend, or stay extended too long in his lunges. When I looked to post that picture, I thought, "Oh, good action shot!" And then I saw the million things we were doing wrong: my back leg isn't straight, my torso isn't parallel, my weapon arm isn't nearly fully extended, my front foot is crooked, and Kev's parry was bad in more ways than one. I decided to post it anyway for the hell of it though. Good pointer though, thanks. We actually had one guy last year dislocate and fracture his knee at a tournament because of bad foot work. Good footwork pays kiddies!

[Death]

Yeah, that picture was taken near the end of last school year; we were all getting pretty lax near the end. His (my opponent's) girlfriend had just gotten a shiny new digital camera, so she brought it by to try it out. We got about 30 pictures; we staged a few for the sake of looking decent in case I wanted to put some up somewhere; the porblem is, most of the staged ones look real, so I can't remember if that one was staged or not! My point is, he normally doesn't do that, particularly in his parries; indeed he often corrects me on what you just said, lol. Anyway, Kevin's a great fencer; he'd probably have his D by this point if he had the equipment to compete in epee, though he just got it, so we'll see what happens. He's a good foil fencer too, but I usually just slightly edge him out in matches because he tends to over-extend, or stay extended too long in his lunges. When I looked to post that picture, I thought, "Oh, good action shot!" And then I saw the million things we were doing wrong: my back leg isn't straight, my torso isn't parallel, my weapon arm isn't nearly fully extended, my front foot is crooked, and Kev's parry was bad in more ways than one. I decided to post it anyway for the hell of it though. Good pointer though, thanks. We actually had one guy last year dislocate and fracture his knee at a tournament because of bad foot work. Good footwork pays kiddies!

Hehe, yeah. I noticed all the troubles, but didn't want to sound like too much of an ass by pointing them all out. After all, I'm not your coach.

Heh, I tend to stay in my lunges for a bit too long, as well, when I fence foil. It works in epee, since good bladework can open up a toe, mask, or wrist touch frequently, but it doesn't establish a new attack according to right of way, and leaves my target area bared in foil. Plus, my strong, Italian-school parries tend to be less useful against flick-happy foilists. Or flick-happy epeeists, for that matter, though they are far fewer in number.

[cxwq]

Plus, my strong, Italian-school parries tend to be less useful against flick-happy foilists. Or flick-happy epeeists, for that matter, though they are far fewer in number.

Didn't they change the tip spring tension or no-contact-distance fairly recently to deal with epee flicks? I used to own on lame wrist flicks.

I assume you maintain your own weapons? I need to dig out my shims, test box, etc one of these days. My soon-to-be-remodeled living room should be just about long enough to set up a strip.

[pinhead52]

Wow, I noticed those too but didn't want to say anything because I learned to fence from a bunch of other drunken idiots, so I figured it was all taken out of a movie (which it probably still was).

Last I heard they haven't changed anything about flicks. Maybe that's just foil though, I don't read much on epee.

[rusty]

Crew: Trying out this year
Ultimate Fribee
Football: I'm too small/slow to play in a highschool game, but with friends it's awesome.

[TimberwolfCY]

The rules they changed had to do with timing: the point now has to stay on target for longer than it did before; it went from something like 2-300 milliseconds to 500, or something like that; that is, the point has to stay depressed on target for that amount of time. Because flicks rely on a rapid hit, increasing the time for the point to stay on-target effectively makes flicks much harder to pull off. They still happen occasionally, but as long as the FIE keeps the new rules, "flicking contests" as I have dubbed them are a thing of the past.

A lot of countering flicks is simply seeing them coming: they have a comparatively long preparation that doesn't involve claiming right-of-way (because you're bringing the arm/wrist back to do the flick, which doesn't threaten target area) so if you see it coming, you can often initiate an attack before your opponent can get the flick off. Retreating or advance-lunging works as well; there are plenty of ways to counter it, you just have to have good timing and know what you're doing. The problem is, flicking got to the point where it dominated fencing, and for a sport that is supposed to emulate it's ancestor, flicking simply doesn't have a place. An occasional flick is fine by me, because they are not easy to pull off correctly, but if the entire fencing match is simply a flicking contest, that's not fencing. I'm much happier with the new timings personally, there has been a huge return to more realistic (and frankly inventive) fencing since the new timings were adopted, and tournaments are far more enjoyable for it, both for spectators and fencers (at least I think).

I assume you maintain your own weapons? I need to dig out my shims, test box, etc one of these days. My soon-to-be-remodeled living room should be just about long enough to set up a strip.

I own all my own dry equipment, but I still need to get electric stuff. Fortunately, our club has a decent amount of electric equipment, so I am still able to compete; I also maintain most of it, but that will fall to an appointed armourer soon... I'll get my own electric stuff before much longer, but I'd like to get the best if I can, so it will be a while before I end up dropping money on it. Our club also got its first scoring box and reels; its an awesome feeling knowing your club is taking serious steps towards being able to put on tournaments, and prepare for them well too.

Your own strip in your living room?! That would be beastly... "So ya wanna fence?" "Sure, but where?" "My house; I have a strip in my living room." "Indeed."

Damn I need to cut down on my posts...

Edited by TimberwolfCY, 27 September 2005 - 06:03 PM.

[WratH]

I play:

Paintball(semi-competitive, Front player)
Bike a bit
Soccer (goaltender)
Volleyball (mid)
Football with friends (full back)
Shooting
Wrestling (two-time provincial champ - oh yeaaaa!)
Snowboarding
Want to get into lacrosse

[Death]

I assume you maintain your own weapons? I need to dig out my shims, test box, etc one of these days. My soon-to-be-remodeled living room should be just about long enough to set up a strip.

Yep, it's far less costly than paying others to maintain them for me. It's not so bad with my Visconti-grip weapons, but assembling an electric Italian-grip epee is a bit of a pain. Almost nobody manufactures true Italian epee blades anymore, so I have to use a French-grip blade with a false ricasso, which is a real pain in the ass to wire.

Negrini sells true Italian blades, both dry and electric, but I haven't gotten around to spending the nigh-on $200 it'll cost me to import one from Italy. Plus, they tend to be in short-supply, and are therefore out-of-stock quite often.

[TimberwolfCY]

Italian Foils & Epees, thefencingpost.com

Triplette - Scroll down to Triplette (TCA) Weapons

Those are the two I remember off the top of my head; unless I'm mistaken, they should both be standard and electric Italian weapons, grips and all.

I've always been interested in fencing with an Italian grip, but everywhere I read they say pistol grips are better/superior/etc., but I have a tough time believing that. I've been wanting something similar to a pistol in that it supports my hand better, but I don't want a full-on pistol grip, just something that takes up the extra room in my hand and gives it support. How is fencing with an Italian grip, ie., how is it different, how do you hold it differently, is your fencing style different or just a different grip/blade, etc.?

[Death]

Italian Foils & Epees, thefencingpost.com

Triplette - Scroll down to Triplette (TCA) Weapons

Those are the two I remember off the top of my head; unless I'm mistaken, they should both be standard and electric Italian weapons, grips and all.

I've always been interested in fencing with an Italian grip, but everywhere I read they say pistol grips are better/superior/etc., but I have a tough time believing that. I've been wanting something similar to a pistol in that it supports my hand better, but I don't want a full-on pistol grip, just something that takes up the extra room in my hand and gives it support. How is fencing with an Italian grip, ie., how is it different, how do you hold it differently, is your fencing style different or just a different grip/blade, etc.?

I've looked into both places before. Triplette sells Italian foils, but not Italian epees. The Fencing Post, as I recall, imports their Italian blades from Negrini.

The Italian grip, when used in combination with a Martingale wrist strap according to the Italian school, definitely has a very different feel than either a French or Pistol grip. The primary difference is maneuverability. The blade becomes an extension of your forearm, and as such, removes a lot of the finger and wrist mobility which French and Pistol grips allow. The benefits, however, are much stronger beats and parries, and an assurance that the blade of your weapon is almost always optimally positioned.

It's certainly not for everyone. Pistol grips afford a great amount of strength and maneuverability, which is why they tend to be favored amongst sport fencers. The Italian grip simply fits my natural attitude and style very well, so I've stuck with it.

[NerfLad78]

I do Nerf, some paintball, and crew.

EDIT: Sorry about my massive wave of posts, but this is what happens, I don't post often, but when I do, it comes in SURGES.

Edited by NerfLad78, 30 September 2005 - 05:24 PM.

[Event Horizon]

I'm just kind of curious. What exactley is crew?

Edit: I'm no longer king of curious.

Edited by Event Horizon, 02 October 2005 - 12:46 PM.

[Kuhlschrank]

I'm just king of curious. What exactley is crew?

Well your Highness,
Crew is rowing. More importantly it is a group of people rowing(a CREW of people).
generally, its 4 or 8 people to a boat, though sometimes its only 2.
There are two types of rowing within crew: sweeping and skulling.
Sweeping is when each person has one oar, and which side the oar is on alternates as you move down the boat(bow seat has an oar on the starboard side, the second seat has one on port, etc...).
In skulling, each person has two oars(one for each side). This type is harder, but you have more control over the boat than you would with only one oar.
Hopefully, that helped you out.

[TimberwolfCY]

Crew is rowing. More importantly it is a group of people rowing(a CREW of people).

I've seen that occasionally on TV and whatnot; their coordination is amazing, it's got to take a lot of practice.

Death - I took a look at some stuff online about the Italian grips. When you hold the weapon, does it end up being "in parallel" with your forearm, similar to a pistol grip? After the stuff I saw, I'm seriously wanting to try it, because I want something that "absorbs" more of my grip than a French, but I definitely don't want a pistol-grip. Do you know of any good places on the web I can read up about it? I'm just really curious about it; the only place I found was St. Louis Univ. site, but it seemed rather outdated.

[NerfLad78]

It's really not hard if you have a good coxswain (guy who orders people to row\which side to row).
I am a starboard rower.

By the way Kulschrank: funny, it took me a minute to notice it.

Edited by NerfLad78, 01 October 2005 - 02:52 PM.

[Kuhlschrank]

It's really not hard if you have a good coxswain (guy who orders people to row\which side to row).
I am a starboard rower.

By the way Kulschrank: funny, it took me a minute to notice it.

Well, it certainly helps a lot to have a good coxswain, but, speaking from a novice's perspective, you need rowers who want to listen to them. Thats our biggest problem right now, is that the people in the bow of the boat dont pay any attention, and fuck everything else up for the rest of us. We have about 6 competent rowers right now, but the last two always fuck everything up.
Oh by the way, I row port, usually either six seat or stroke.

[JSkater]

My sister is a coxwain at Oregon State.

Yeah.

[Death]

Death - I took a look at some stuff online about the Italian grips. When you hold the weapon, does it end up being "in parallel" with your forearm, similar to a pistol grip? After the stuff I saw, I'm seriously wanting to try it, because I want something that "absorbs" more of my grip than a French, but I definitely don't want a pistol-grip. Do you know of any good places on the web I can read up about it? I'm just really curious about it; the only place I found was St. Louis Univ. site, but it seemed rather outdated.

The Italian grip is held very similarly to a pistol grip. Forefinger on the Ricasso, middle finger on the crossbar, thumb over top of the Ricasso. Very often, a strap known as a Martingale wraps around the pommel and wrist, in order to help affix the correct blade positioning (one must be careful, however, that the pommel can slide out from under the Martingale; according to the USFA, you can't use a device to aid in throwing-and-retrieving your blade).

Unfortunately, it's immensely difficult to find good information on Italian fencing. The best places I've found, so far, for information are as follows:

1) "The Science of Fencing," by William M. Gaugler (ISBN: 1884528058)
This is an incredibly good book on beginner-to-intermediate level fencing, and one of the only ones I've found which covers the Italian grip.

2) The Martinez Academy of Arms - http://www.martinez-destreza.com/
Maestro Ramon Martinez is one of the foremost scholars on classical schools of fencing. His academy has published numerous books and videos on Italian rapier, not to mention many other classical forms.

3) "La Spada e la sua Applicazione," (translation: The Sword and its Use) by Aurelio Greco
This is, without a doubt, THE best manual for instruction in the Italian school of sport-fencing that I have yet discovered. The only hiccup is that it's been out of print for nigh-on eighty years, now. And if you do happen to locate a copy, it is written entirely in Italian. So unless you've a good working knowledge of the language, or a friend who's willing to help you translate it, this one's pretty much out of the question.