40 replies to this topic

[Doogie]

I hate people that hate people.

Doog and C, you must understand that this site is mostly comprised of 12-15yr old boys. The homophobia shouldn't come as a surprise.

We best fix 'em young, then, to make 'em world-compatible.
Unless they plan on staying in the Bible belt their whole lives.

[Sacapuntas Cabesa]

The problem in homophobia lays here:

You can't expect girls to be lesbians if you hate gays.

[Dan Cromer]

The problem in homophobia lays here:

You can't expect girls to be lesbians if you hate gays.

This is heading right for olsen twins.

>>>...My last comment was directed at Dan for narrowing the definition of homophobe so as to exclude himself...<<<

I guess that by the same token people use the word "Fag" to describe someone stupid, the word "homophobe", against all normal uses of the suffix "-phobe", could be used by the pro-gay movement to label their opposition. Either that or a twisting of words to make docile heterosexuals who feel homosexuality is immorally wrong sound like a terrible enemy, and therefore worthy of attack in a pretentious mindset. If you don't have a fierce opponent to fight, you might as well make one--and hey--that's right, I used the word pretentious. You're screwed now.

My feeling is this, to quote my 8th grade art teacher: "I don't have a problem with homesexuals, just so long as they continue to burn in hell." Not to drag religion into this argument.

[Dan Cromer]

I don't think resorting to name calling is going to get you anywhere, Julie, but I understand your frustration in being unable to recover from the severe beatdown my previous post gave you. Really, I explain my viewpoint in detail, and the best you can do is call me an ass. This isn't about gays and lesbians anymore, this is about a conflict between two people. I know I'm rubbing against your skin like a piece of 120 grit sandpaper, or perhaps gnawing on you like 4000 flaming, unicycle-riding termites. Not even a creative insult, just the usual old 'ass'. If you're going to throw up your hands in defeat and resort to namecalling, you might as well call me something that'll hurt my feelings. Otherwise, I'll just laugh, and start taunting you. Yeah, I might be an ass, but if you want to play dirty, there's plenty more where that came from. Raise the white flag now, or prepare for a text-based blitzkreig that'll leave you depressed, angry, and probably balding.

[cxwq]

Sorry, there's no "beatdown" in your previous post. If you really want to go back to horribly dated linguistic traditions for your arguments you should probably know that bisexuality was the norm in ancient Greece. Love between a man (erastes or 'lover') and an adolescent male (eromenos or 'beloved') was both common and accepted.

When a gay-proponent tries to advance their views they are attempting to convince society to treat homosexuals just like any other human beings. They are trying to affect behavior. If nobody treated homosexuals differently, there would be no 'gay movement'.

When a gay-opponent (is that better than homophobe for you?) tries to advance their views they are attempting to convince society to think of homosexuals as deviants or immoral individuals. In doing this they are trying to change moral values.

Moral values are (or should be) a very personal thing and beyond the reproach of others. Behavior on the other hand is something that we should all be held accountable for.

I value your right to decide if homosexuality is morally appropriate for you. I do not value anyone's choice to try to convince others that it's not morally appropriate for them or anyone else.

[Sacapuntas Cabesa]

You know its bad when you've got the webmaster's wife on your butt.

[Dan Cromer]

Dan, you don't have many friends, do you?

I'm absolutely ashemed at the sight of this. A full grown adult reduced to slinging mud at an adolescent. Calling me an ass, that was funny. But your slanderous, grade-school quality insult of "having no friends" is not only falsified, but completely uncalled for. For your information, yeah, I have friends, but I'm not going to sit here and count them to try and prove you wrong. I'm not obsessed with winning an argument to the point where I'll kick and scream. We entered this argument as adults; professional in demeanor. We posted our viewpoints, and disagreed--which is fine. I'd like to have you understand that just as you feel appauled at my remarks, almost the entire midwest feels the same way about yours. That's the beauty of the freedom of speech, and I'm stopping that sappy train of thought before it goes to far. I admit my last post was silly, but for you to break down and start in with the petty insults is too much. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who can't keep up to the point where they start in with childish insults. Yeah, I might be younger, but at least I'm the one acting like an adult.

[Jangadance]

Yeah, I might be younger, but at least I'm the one acting like an adult.

Well, being intolerant of someone who is different isn't entirely mature, in my book. And I don't think the whole Midwest is behind you (pardon the imagery, I'm sure you're not comfortable with that situation ) Minneapolis is a very tolerant city, and we're definately midwest.

You mentioned all the great friends you have... I imagine they are all straight like you. What if your best friend came to you and told you he was gay? Would that change the way you feel about him, even if he told you he had no interest in you romantically, and that he still wanted to be buds? If so, that's both saddening and juvenile. Would it have been the same way if he came to you and expressed his avid appreciation for Opera music? That's just a preference, you don't have to listen to the Opera music with him, you just accept him as your friend, despite the differences that you may have.

Don't take this as a personal attack, but also, if you're going to try to keep your interest in having an intelligent discussion about this, don't get all high-and-mighty, referring to your "beat-downs" and "text-based blitzkreigs". It's unbecoming of you, and in affect, all the Midwesterners that you lay your blanket statement across.

[Cadmond]

Examples fix everything Janga.. I liked the middle one.

Anywhooo. Lets just clear this up once again. You know.. with paint thinner, and matches.

Ok!
So

Dan, it seems as if you express hate towards homosexuals. And it seems as if many people express hate towards you because of your hate. And I'm sure the midwest expresses hate towards these homosexual-likers. And many people dislike the midwest-erners for their conservative views on this issue.. ect.

here.. let me draw you all a nice diagram

copy and paste this

So lets say the stick figure on the top, drops the ball on the one below. The next one drops the ball down, the next one, the next one, ECT! till the world, or rather stairway, explodes. Sure, a loop would've been better, but if we continue to hate, it won't be infinite. The world would end. And yes, I graduated from crappy drawing school.

So, I'm betting your all saying "wuhh? I don't hate _________" but.. hey, dislike is just a lower intensity of hate. And I'm sure you're all full of dislike.

And where does this hate come from? Well.. basically, disrespect. It sure seems like it. I'm not saying you guys have to go ahead and sing in a big hand circle.. but for christ's sake. Respect each others opinions. This really means not trying to make everyone conform to yours, or not trying to belittle a person for theirs. Ect. Oh well. Not much else I can do. I tried to explain hate. And all of a sudden, up pops lots of hate. Hate.. hate.. hate is a horrible thing.

*note - if you don't think anyone hates anyone in here, just replace all the "hate/hates" with "dislike/dislikes" ..happy now?

[Zero Talent]

If it's any consolation, I think you're all hedonistic whores for making such a big deal of so trivial an action as reproduction. Let's all hate Zero, shall we?

Dan; Now you're being pretentious. Besides, your argument sucks; "Lots of people agree with me, so I must be right!" You're just trying to shift the focus by imposing your opinion that others shouldn't impose their opinions on you... Which is just close-minded and never works for anyone. Give a substantial argument for your opinion, thus answering the implied questions*, and then you can move up from the kid's table.

Julie must be women of few words; Few, but, I suppose, precise. Perhaps you should have added some adjectives to that "ass," Julie... Something like "pretentious," "hypocritical," and "close-minded," so Dan would get the point you're trying to make.

I'd like to agree with you that we should all just drop the argument and let people have their opinions, but Dan, you're not. You're just hiding your disrespect for another opinion by pretending you believe everyone's entitled to their opinion. It's just cheap... Like poisoning someone's river just before calling a ceasefire, or sacking someone just before the elevator door closes.

Let's all resolve this like adults, by discussing the actual problem, rather than hiding behind hypocracy. And let's not hide behind baseless beliefs, shall we?

* If you're going to say the questions are not implied, which I'm very sure you will, I'll ask you now: "What logical argument do you have for disliking Homosexuality?"

[Jangadance]

Not that I believe this, but I will offer it up as A viewpoint. You've probably heard it before, but Homosexuality could be considered a disease upon the human race. Imagine for a second, before you get all politically correct and pissed off at me for even mentioning this idea. If everyone in the world suddenly decided that they were no longer interested in mating with the opposite gender, what would happen to our population? To our civilization, for that matter. In a single century, wouldn't homo sapien be extinct?

Granted, everyone making the choice to be a homosexual isn't likely to happen in the near or distant future, so really this is just a rhetorical question. Many different species of animal across the globe have been documented to engage in sexual acts between the same gender, but they have continued to procreate- it's basic instinct. So in a way, humans have a unique situation.

I'm not at all worried about our population dying out. If everyone else around me was homosexual, more power to them. 'Cept, could I have one hetero-ladyfriend? For crying out loud, show some pity. Anyhow, it seemed a few of you still wanted to discuss the issue of homosexuality, and I feared Dan might return with a hesitant rebuttal at best, so I decided to offer up something to talk about. Plzz, doen't flaem mee!!11!

[Sacapuntas Cabesa]

The only thing in history that has actually lowered the world's population was the Black Death. I doubt a bunch of queers are gonna amount to that.

[Jangadance]

Ho ho ho. Well, I was jumping to conclusions. Maybe I missed my mark.

[IronRhino]

The only thing in history that has actually lowered the world's population was the Black Death. I doubt a bunch of queers are gonna amount to that.

That's all?

AIDS, Influenza virus of 1918, WWII, every other war for that matter has lowered our population. I dont give a crap if someone's homophobic or homosexual or whatever, as long as they don't try and convert me or anything.

[Sacapuntas Cabesa]

Nothing else has made a dent. People reproduce like rabbits. I think there was about 4 billion people on the earth before WW2. Only a few million died during the war. People were still being born during that time. The Plague killed off 1/3 of the world's population. Since then, the population has only gone up.

[Doogie]

Nothing else has made a dent. People reproduce like rabbits. I think there was about 4 billion people on the earth before WW2. Only a few million died during the war. People were still being born during that time. The Plague killed off 1/3 of the world's population. Since then, the population has only gone up.

Actually, I was watching Discovery Channel, and they demonstrated what it'd be like if we reproduced like rabbits, and we aren't even close to multiplying as much as they do. We just have more control over the Earth.