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Homophobia

What's wrong with gay?

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#1 Doogie

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 05:59 PM

I've been spending a little bit of time exploring these threads, feeling the nature of this board, and it's felt kind of violent. It seems like there's a pretty strong anti-gay sentiment, and it bothers me. What's wrong with being gay?
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#2 freakymist

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 06:09 PM

so true, I mean come on...IMHO bieng a homophob is identical to bieng racist against blacks...
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#3 Mantis

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 06:36 PM

You know, when someone says fag or you homo, they usually dont mean it that way. Odds are that person is straight, and everyone knows, so its just a mindless insult.

But as to homophobia, a comedian once said it best. Homophobia doesnt make sense, if you are arachnophobic, you dont go up to a spider and start beating the shit out of it!
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#4 cxwq

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 06:46 PM

I already responded to this in your other thread but I'll address it in a slightly more serious way here.

To answer your implied and direct questions: not really, sort of, and depends.

Lest you think I'm blowing you off (you can take that however you like, damn homophobes), I'll explain.

While I agree that some of the threads on this forum are fairly violent in nature, I don't think you can generalize that over the entire site. In addition, I'm reasonably certain that the vast majority of ostensibly violent remarks are simply 'trash talk'. The fact that Vacc, Spoon, and I set the tone here regarding accepted communication style probably means that the trash talk isn't going away any time soon. We tend to type here in a manner similar to how we talk 'on the battlefield'. Whether trash talk is a good or bad thing is a personal decision but it's something that the three of us (and others I'm sure, though I won't presume to speak for them) have come to enjoy in association with Nerf. There are other Nerf sites that are friendlier in nature so I guess we're filling a niche in that regard.

There is a fairly strong anti-gay sentiment. It bothers me quite a bit and I'm certainly not going to try to explain away all those comments. That said, I think I've come to understand that many of those epithets aren't grounded in actual hatred or homophobia but rather in the societal norms for many of our users. Having spent my 30 years in the Los Angeles area with close friends of every ethnicity and sexual orientation, I have worked hard to remove everything I learned in middle school from my dialect. A 13-year-old living in socially conservative middle-America with only straight (closeted), white friends is being pushed in rather the opposite direction.

In my opinion there's absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. Some people disagree which is of course between them and their deity. When people use irritating but common anti-gay epithets on this board I either try to discourage it or just let it go. If anyone engages in blatant gay bashing on this board I will nuke them.
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#5 Dan Cromer

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 08:44 PM

I'm certainly not for violent bashing of gays, but I will admit I don't like gays. I do tolerate them. However, what I like even less than gays the entire, "You don't like gays so you must be homophobic" argument.

Homophobia would be the fear of gays. Disliking them is NOT homophobia. That'd qualify things like disliking peanutbutter as "peanutbutterphobia". Secondly, it all has to do with your upbringing. Just as some have been raised in a culture that is indifferent to gays, some of us come from more conservative backgrounds. How can the pro-gay culture proclaim themselves right if their own viewpoint was created in the same way as their opponent? Finally, there is a distinct difference between tollerance and acceptance. The pro-gay movement is trying to force america into accepting gays. I don't accept gays. From my perspective, I think it's morally wrong, and there's nothing wrong with having my own opinion. However, I do tolerate them, and am in no way in favor of a violent cleansing movement.

Yeah, they're still people, and yeah, we're all the same on the inside. I don't care if someone's gay or not, as long as it doesn't interfere with me. But when people start running around proclaiming their homosexuality, that's where I draw the line. It isn't necessary to announce one's sexual preferance every time one walks into a room.
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#6 Warlock

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 09:32 PM

Well, IMO, I don't like the idea of homosexuality. I probably would never understand it but I guess whatever floats a person's boat is fine. The only thing I don't like is the extreme defensiveness and when there are flambouyant homosexuals. You know, the ones that go out of their way to make it known that they are gay. My example? There's this kid in my Theatre Arts class that when he introduced himself to me, he said, "Hi, I'm Andrew and I'm Gay." He'll openly make remarks about other males in the class and has told people that I was hot and such, knowing that I have a girlfriend and am somewhat bigoted against his ideas, although I will not shun him. He pisses me off but I dare not say anything because I'd then get taken to the administration for some kind of discrimination or some shit like that... God, that pisses me off.

But if you're gay and not stupid about it, then you're cool in my books, as long as you know the boundaries between the two of us. :D
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#7 Howard

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 09:52 PM

The only boundary between us is the condom Warlock... :D
//End of gay humor... In this post anyways!

Meh, People that are openly gay are looked at very differently. That kid Warlock was talking about is in my health class, and its like he as a homosexual death wave surrounding him, and no one goes anywhere near him. He flaunts it like a circus monkey toting a flamethrower.

Gay humor is fun, Gay preferences are not.
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#8 Zero Talent

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 11:02 PM

The insults concerning homosexuality are either prejudiced or childish, so either way they're stupid. So I avoid doing so, and often poke fun at those who do. As to homosexuality, I believe it's dumb... But in the same manner that I think sex for reasons besides procreation is dumb... So it's not that big a deal. Considering the sexual acts involved are about as "wrong" as masturbation, I throw all of that into the same bin, for the same simple and unifying reason. I really have nothing against a guy liking another guy, I'm just not a big fan the fact that the crux of the whole matter lies on a vapidly hedonistic delight. (Edit; it sounds like I'm probably anti-sex now, too... Which is not the case. I just think the notion of people defining themselves based on which gender they have sex with stupid, given my belief that sex is just another action. Sort of like an overinflated sense of proportion placed on sex.)

Oh, and considering I missed Julie's post, I'll comment on that. The simple fact that a word for "happy" has been used in place of homosexuality pretty much negates any concern I have for the terminology involved. Anti-homosexuality is just too big a word. And while we're on the subject, flamboyantly straight people also annoy me. I don't support gay pride parades for the same reason I wouldn't support straight pride parades (Didn't they try that at some point?).

Yeah, I'm a prude. :D
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#9 VACC

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 11:33 PM

Damn this thread is gay
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#10 Cadmond

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Posted 21 May 2003 - 11:41 PM

Considering the sexual acts involved are about as "wrong" as masturbation

Don't worry, I saw the quotes :D .. . .where was I? .. ah.. I'm one of those that really gets turned off, so to speak, by homophobic actions. But, hell, whatever, not much I can do. Most people just hold onto their middle school vocabularys, and don't actually hate gay people. It's just annoying how they openly use a word as if the thing it's supposed to recognize with doesn't exist.

I came too late to explain anything incredibly well.. And yes zero, technology undermines alot of our habits that have been formed, or rather, programmed, over thousands of years. Damn that trojan man.
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#11 cxwq

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 12:28 AM

The simple fact that a word for "happy" has been used in place of homosexuality pretty much negates any concern I have for the terminology involved.

Languages change. It happens all the time so we might as well get over it. A word that was used for 'happy' ages ago being used now to mean 'homosexual' is not a big deal. Dan redefining the current meaning of 'homophobia' is just an attempt to throw the discussion off on a lame history of language tangent and is rather pointless. If you don't want to think of yourself as a homophobe but have a "contempt for lesbians and gay men" then you need to come to terms with who you are.

Doogie: I appear to have been mistaken. NH seems to be largely comprised of homophobes in denial.
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#12 Doogie

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 01:43 AM

The simple fact that a word for "happy" has been used in place of homosexuality pretty much negates any concern I have for the terminology involved.

Languages change. It happens all the time so we might as well get over it. A word that was used for 'happy' ages ago being used now to mean 'homosexual' is not a big deal. Dan redefining the current meaning of 'homophobia' is just an attempt to throw the discussion off on a lame history of language tangent and is rather pointless. If you don't want to think of yourself as a homophobe but have a "contempt for lesbians and gay men" then you need to come to terms with who you are.

Doogie: I appear to have been mistaken. NH seems to be largely comprised of homophobes in denial.

I won't blame you or NerfHaven for that.
In fact, I'd rather not blame anybody.
It's really a matter of loving people instead of hating them. Denying somebody love because of their sexual preference is ridiculous. It's akin to denying somebody love because of their skin tone.

Let's expect a little maturity from everyone and understand that love is necessary for a full life, shall we?
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#13 VACC

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 04:32 PM

I won't blame you or NerfHaven for that.
In fact, I'd rather not blame anybody.
It's really a matter of loving people instead of hating them. Denying somebody love because of their sexual preference is ridiculous. It's akin to denying somebody love because of their skin tone.

Let's expect a little maturity from everyone and understand that love is necessary for a full life, shall we?

Blame whoever the hell you want. I really don't give a shit. I know what you are saying, and quite frankly I'm not moved. I do not harbor any anti-homosexual sentiments, but that does not mean that I'm going to tell others they must feel the same way as me. Forcing someone into accepting homosexual activity is just as unfair and baseless as forcing someone into shunning it. Believe what you fucking believe, talk about what you fucking believe if you like, but do not tell me what I must feel. It is my god/allah/collective unconsious/whatever right to be an asshole, and I will excercise that right at will. I will not be nice, or accomodating, or fucking cordial on command. I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not. I'm an asshole, and be warned...there are others.

VACC
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#14 Zero Talent

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 06:35 PM

Doogie: I appear to have been mistaken. NH seems to be largely comprised of homophobes in denial.

I've never met anyone flamboyant enough to mention their sexual preference without reason, or really talk about it enough to require the information be presented, so I suppose in terms of homophobia, I'm "untested." As I said, I'm not opposed to homosexuality, but rather opposed to wasteful hedonism (in a rather hypocritical way I might add), or rather the concerns it can form.
I never really denied being homophobic, so I'll find that remark baseless. And yes, I will take it personally, considering you're talking about my personality. If you weren't, you could use to be less obscure in your side remarks.

Oh, and while I'm here...

It's really a matter of loving people instead of hating them. Denying somebody love because of their sexual preference is ridiculous.

People don't have issue with the love, they have issue with the sex. There is a difference. It's often the wrong difference that's being used, but there is a difference.

This topic doesn't have to be a source of insults or snide comments. "Homophobes:" The only issue I have with you is the use of language for a childish insult. It's like people saying "Oh my God!" when they simply want an exclamation. It's stupid or sinful, depending on your beliefs, and either way is dumb. "Proselytizers:" You have no right to be snide or condescending, as Cxwq seemed to be. If that wasn't the intention, I offer my understanding.
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#15 Spoon

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 09:16 PM

These days whenever I decide to revert back to a 7th grade mentality (which is quite often, I assure you), I try to replace "gay" with "ghey" or "gai". That way people understand that I'm not trying to insult my charming homosexual (I still feel awkward using that word) friends.
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#16 WebbZter

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 10:10 PM

It all boils down to what defines a person's worthiness. To me, the worthiness of a person is based on their honesty, their respect, whether or not they work hard, how willing they are to help others in need, etc. I do not think the person that one sleeps with has any effect on whether or not he or she is honest. Therefore, I accept homosexuals.
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#17 Cadmond

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Posted 22 May 2003 - 10:32 PM

Oh, how I despise my middle school mentality. That and the social ignorance many kids had.

Vacc, you have a point. But, if you don't want someone to tell you how to feel, don't tell them how to feel.

Uh oh! time for a human behavioral rant! *chimes bell*

Ok, so we have this

People are agressive towards others mainly because of symbolic differences between them, and another. IE : you are a nationalist. You see someone burning your country's flag. You then beat the crap out of them.

Is it you being burnt? Are they dumping gasoline onto your person and lighting a match? Nope. It's the flag, that represents your country, that represents you. So, your mind says "Beat the crap out of him! he's hurting us!" and everything just seems normal

Now, this can be applied to the current situation. I hate fred because he likes men. Does he like me? Not that I can tell. Is he desperately trying to get in my pants, or my freinds pants? Not really. Is he another human being? sure he is. But, there is a difference between us. He represents what I am not. And so me and my chums jump him in the alley and kick in his head for no good reason!

Now then, extra bits can be applied. Fred is now flamboyantly gay. He is making funny gay jokes around me. I feel uncomfortable, because I don't get them, and because my mother and father are heterosexuals, and I am a heterosexual, and jimmy, and tim, and lisa, and rodger are all heterosexuals as well. He is exuberant. He is happy. But because I choose to hate him, I am uncomfortable. His presence, makes me unhappy. His presence, leads me to anger. "HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE WOMAN!" I suddenly shout at him. "HOW DARE YOU!!" Fred is offended. He tells me, it's his choice and it's his body..

And you know what? he's right. He can do whatever the hell he wants, as long as it doesn't involve me. If it does, then sure, that's sexual harrasement, beat him up, just like a woman would kick you in the groin for doing the same. But until then, our hate, is baseless. Just because we are made the way we are, doesn't mean we are static beings. We can be dynamic. We can change. There is no need for hate in this world. Hate has no purpose in furthering our lifes. It gets us nowhere but backwards. Hate leads to wars lead to deaths lead to sorrow. Die if you want to, but I'd rather not.


woooh, go hypothetical situations. They solve [I]everythinggg[I] ^_^
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#18 Zero Talent

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 01:49 AM

::Wordy, but "funn"::

So basically, hatred is dumb. Agreed. I don't think anyone here hates anyone... Except maybe Vacc. He's an asshole. ^_^
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#19 VACC

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 02:22 AM

::Wordy, but "funn"::

So basically, hatred is dumb. Agreed. I don't think anyone here hates anyone... Except maybe Vacc. He's an asshole. ^_^

Fuck yes!
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#20 cxwq

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 12:09 PM

I never really denied being homophobic, so I'll find that remark baseless. And yes, I will take it personally, considering you're talking about my personality. If you weren't, you could use to be less obscure in your side remarks.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. I quoted you in order to address the language issue but not all my comments were directed at you.

My last comment was directed at Dan for narrowing the definition of homophobe so as to exclude himself.

Just to clarify my views, as stated in my initial post, I concede every person's right to decide how they personally feel about homosexuality. I do not accept that anybody has the right to give someone else grief over this decision.

I'll try to avoid being hypocritical and bashing homophobes in the future.
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#21 Zero Talent

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Posted 23 May 2003 - 03:31 PM

The solution to all this hullabaloo is simple and already in wide practice. "Don't ask, don't tell." If you don't want to subject your beliefs to scrutiny -- whether it's religion or politics or the superiority of one mod over another -- then don't bring it up.

And this is why we should burn Doogie at the stake, right? ...Right? ^_^
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#22 VACC

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 11:48 AM

Nah, I prefer whips and chains, but Doogie wouldn't be my first choice for a victim ;)

Now now Julie, the deviant might like that too much.
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#23 Sacapuntas Cabesa

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Posted 24 May 2003 - 10:06 PM

I hate people that hate people.

Doog and C, you must understand that this site is mostly comprised of 12-15yr old boys. The homophobia shouldn't come as a surprise.
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#24 merlinski

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Posted 25 May 2003 - 01:18 AM

I personally have no problem with people doing whatever the fuck they want to (no pun intended) in their own bedrooms. I do have a problem though, with people using homosexuality to intentionally bait other people or try to make them uncomfortable. I really do believe that quite a few of the excessively flamboyant people do it simply for reactions, and it pisses me off if whenever people try to use their sexual preference against other people.

So I only really have a problem with homosexuals if they choose to make their preferences affect me in ways that I don't appreciate. I don't think that makes me homophobic. Its sorta the way I feel about race too. I have absolutely no dislike whatsoever for people based on the color of their skin, but it pisses me off when people use race as an excuse when it shouldn't be one, or use it against people by calling them racist when they really aren't.

I don't think I've ever used an anti-gay phrase (such as "fag") as an insult against someone, but a comparison someone made caught my attention. I think it was Zero - he compared using anti-gay terms to using the term "Oh my god". I use "Oh my god" fairly often. I am an atheist. I just use it cause its a fairly common phrase that I picked up somewhere, and its generally more appropriate than "What the fuck" or "holy shit". I don't see any problem with using it, even if it is against someone's religious beliefs. Its just something I say, and I'm not going to change my speech cause you disagree with what I'm saying. So, from that perspective, I don't really have a problem with people calling others "fags" or anything like that, as long as its not used as a derogatory term towards a gay person. In most cases, its simply an insult that someone picked up somewhere and are using to express the fact that their pissed off.
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#25 Death

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Posted 25 May 2003 - 09:18 AM

In most cases, its simply an insult that someone picked up somewhere and are using to express the fact that their pissed off.


Actually, even though comments such as "fag" and "gay" and "homo" are made in jest, they are, in fact, derived from derogatory statements and attitudes toward homosexuality. Originally, one would accuse another of being gay because homosexuality was an outcast and unacceptable type of social behavior. No one wanted to be accused of being gay, even those who were ACTUALLY gay, because being labelled as such made one a social pariah. In turn, though it is not always and necessarily intended in the insulting comment, it DOES always connote that there is something inherently wrong with being gay.

That being said: who the fuck cares? Even your average five-year-old knows that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." As someone who has been insulted to the limit over the whole course of my life, I can honestly say verbal insults don't mean anything. I am constantly being insulted and made fun of for "being a geek," for "acting like a kid," for being "Right Wing," for being a "Fundamentalist," for being a Christian, for being "scrawny," for wearing glasses, for being a "homophobe"-- I could go on for pages and pages. I would like to think that I am above taking these ignorant or deliberate insults to heart. I would like to think that I am secure enough in my own strengths and weaknesses, secure enough in who I am, that such empty insults fired at me are about as effective as a Sharpshooter trying to fire ball ammo.

This is not to say that I am above making such insults-- hell, I do all the time. I use the terminology specifically and deliberately because it evokes the exact emotion I am attempting to provoke. I do not "hate" homosexuals, whether I agree with their "lifestyle choices" or not. I simply attempt to promote reaction by their usage, and I am usually satisfied by the result.

Well that's my two cents for this gay thread.
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