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Firefly Speculation


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#51 achensherd

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 04:19 PM

The Maverick, though underpowered stock and even with your basic air-restrictor mod by, say, NF standards (my group started with NFs, so it's kind of like a benchmark for us... don't know about everyone else), can actually be improved. That's the whole point of modification, right? Yes, Hasbro could have put a larger plunger in it, they could have made the seal better, they could have done this, they could have done that... but I'd imagine nerfing would be a lot less fun without the customizations and upgrades over the stock material.

That said, having used the Maverick in a skirmish recently, as well as getting shot at by someone using one, I concur on its weak performance can attest to its ineffectiveness in just about anything but close-quarters combat and by target negligence (though practice does make perfect :P). Therefore, after finals this week, I'm going to hack an NF's plunger in there like some already have, figure out something for the seal, and see how much better it would be if it had all of those "could haves." I can't help it - I like the design and concept a lot. Heck, it got my girlfriend interested in nerfing, where the likes of the Titan, Hornet, NF, and Blast Bazooka did not.

As for the Firefly, I can't wait to get my hands on one. That, and the BBB (that would complete my spring-gun arsenal). I'm just glad quality Nerf guns are still being made, after the hiatus some time back (when in-store options were limited to NFs and TTGs and some Lanard guns). Even if the Firefly's basically a large NF, having 8 shots compensates for it, in my opinion, just as the Maverick's 6 shots made up for the Scout's 1. As long as it's not like that uberly complicated and greasy Transformer gun I blew $20 on last time...

Edited by achensherd, 08 June 2005 - 04:25 PM.

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#52 Shotty Master

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 04:24 PM

Just out of curiosity, is there no way to make guns that meet you safety constraints, but if opened up and, say a screw were to be removed, it would get higher range?

Back on topic, you at Hasboro and NERF do wonderous jobs engineering these wonderful little "toys". Im going to second CX here and say we seriously appreciate what you do. thanks. I soooooooo cant wait to get my hands on this thing!
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#53 Starbuck

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 04:27 PM

Thank you very much for your information and time, Chiefthe. I'm delighted that the people behind the scenes care about us Nerfers so much as to answer these questions. Thanks again.
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#54 duce

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 07:29 PM

I realize that this is a bit off topic but since chiefthe is checking this topic I'll ask some questions about the new bbb.

First off, do you guys plan on using a different plastic than you did for the original big bad bow?

Some people have experienced some jamming and rough cocking mechanisms in our bbbs, do you plan on changing or improving the intrenals or will you use the same plans?

Will the bbb fit into the N-Strike line or will t be it's own series? I remember people questioning whether or not a bow and arrow type blaster would fit into the current theme.

Will it fire titan style rockets?

I know that not much info is being told about the bbb rerelease but anything that you could give us would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edited by duce, 08 June 2005 - 07:30 PM.

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#55 VGN

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 08:00 PM

Will the bbb fit into the N-Strike line or will t be it's own series? I remember people questioning whether or not a bow and arrow type blaster would fit into the current theme.

Will it fire titan style rockets?

One of the Ambassadors (Tal and OMC) said at one point (something along the lines of this), "NO changes whatsoever.".
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#56 Talio

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 10:32 PM

No, there might be a different sticker on it or two, but from what we were told, no there are no major changes to it. I'd expect to see the new logo on it instead of the old one.

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#57 MysticNinja

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:46 PM

Not that you need another ‘thank you’ Chiefthe, but you’ll get one anyway. Thanks once again for the info, and more so thank you for your work. My nieces and nephews really enjoy playing with many Hasbro toys, especially the Mav.
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#58 foamsmith

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 12:03 AM

chiefthe, you posted this a while back.

One of our primary regulations deals with the kinetic energy density of a projectile that is fired using stored energy (like that of a spring or air). The kinetic energy density is equal to:

KED=(0.5 m v^2)/A

where m is the mass of the projectile, v is the initial velocity and A is the impact area of the projectile. We have to assure that all of our blasters meet a certain value or less for KED.

We can shoot the Titan missle so much further than regular darts because the impact area (ie the dart tip) is so much greater.


Does that formula take into acount the nature of the area on the tip of a dart? It seems it should, since darts have varying degrees of absorbent levels. If you had an ultra absorbent dart, shouldn't you be able to shoot it much faster without violating regulations? Or do regualtions not even take this into account?
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#59 Enigma

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 06:45 AM

Thanks for answering my question, chiefthe. Information apreciated greatly. Thanks for giving us all a preview!
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#60 chiefthe

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 10:43 AM

Shotty:

No.

duce:

As Talio said, no changes at all in the mechanism nor in the type of plastic used.

frank:

No. The formula only takes into account the impact area, not the material of the impact. Also, the difference in the amount of energy absorbtion between different materials is very small over such a small deflection as we have on a dart.

chiefthe

Edited by chiefthe, 09 June 2005 - 10:44 AM.

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#61 Davis

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:26 PM

@Chiefthe
Have you and the people at Hasbro ever modified a blaster or two for kicks?
Or does your job take up enough of the day as it is. :nugget:

I heard you are an engineer, but for the Nerf brand alone, or all arround the company?

Were you there when Talio and OMC visited the HQ over there?

We all know the PC is off the table at the moment, and isn't likely coming back anytime soon (and I'm not trying to beg for it), but what kind of thought goes into rereleased blasters?

Is the brand straying more toward single or rapid-fire blasters nowadays, and what sells more among the kiddies?

Sorry for all the questions. I just find this quite interesting that we have a contact inside Hasbro. I hope mine and other's questions don't scare you away. :unsure:

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#62 merlinski

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:45 PM

Frank - the formula limits Kinetic Energy Density, which is not in any way affected by the material - kinetic energy depends only on mass and speed. As for the absorption, how much of a difference does different foam really make? In order to significantly decrease the force, it would have to spread it out over a longer time, which would mean serious compression. And in order to have a nerf dart's foam actually compress on impact, it would have to be extremely fast or extremely soft.

It makes sense that nerf would turn to smaller darts (micros instead of megas) - the decrease in mass is proportionally greater than the decrease in area, so initial speed can be greater.

This also explains why the Vortex guns were able to go so much farther than nerf guns - the initial velocity was significantly less.

So given the drag coefficient, mass, and area, the maximum out of box range for a given dart could be calculated.

chiefthe, are you allowed to tell us what the maximum KED allowed is? Has Hasbro reached the limits or do you go under the max with most guns? Thanks again for all your help, it's been really interesting.
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#63 Talio

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 02:56 PM

Chief has been the key player in setting up our visits, so yes, she was there. She was also at Gnomefest 2 and Apoc 04.
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#64 foamsmith

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 07:52 PM

merlinski, I understand that the formula doesn't factor in the material or tip design, and that's precisely my problem. Suppose you have a micro size dart 3x longer than usual, and the front 1" has a special material or design so that it absorbs the impact of the dart very effeciently. Given that type of dart, you should safefly be able to shoot it much faster, and yet KED equation doesn't take that into acount.
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#65 navy seal

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 08:18 PM

Chiefthe, I have a few questions.

1.Do you design the internals and characteristics of the gun or the shell first?

2.How do you come up with your designs? Do you get them from movies or do you just think them up?

3.Do you make lots of prototypes trying to come up with guns?

Also, thank you for your time in answering all these questions and telling us about the new guns.
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#66 chiefthe

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 06:56 AM

Davis:

I can't answer your question about modding.

I work primarily on the Nerf and Super Soaker brands.

I can't talk about future blaster designs, sorry.

merlinski:

Yes, we have to stay below 1600 J/m^2 for KED. We usually max out at about 20% under to allow for manufacturing variation.

frank:

Again, KED does not factor in material. It is a federal requirement for eye impact so would be very hard to change.

seal:

1. The designer (artist) usually draws the shell first, but is thinking about the layout of the internals while he does it so there is enough room for everything.

2. It depends. Some times we are looking for a blaster to fill certain price, some times we have a cool mechanism/feature we want to use, some times the designer gets inspiration from something else.

3. Yes, we do a number of prototypes.
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#67 JSkater

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:26 AM

About the prototypes. Is there any way you could show us some of the prototypes for some of the newer blaster? If you can't, due to confidentiality, no problem. I think it would be pretty neat to see how some of the blasters came to be what they are.

Edited by JSkater, 10 June 2005 - 09:27 AM.

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#68 Devious

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 12:30 PM

or just proto versions of some of the older guns, i think it would be cool to see how they came about

Edited by Devious, 10 June 2005 - 12:30 PM.

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#69 merlinski

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 02:34 PM

merlinski, I understand that the formula doesn't factor in the material or tip design, and that's precisely my problem. Suppose you have a micro size dart 3x longer than usual, and the front 1" has a special material or design so that it absorbs the impact of the dart very effeciently. Given that type of dart, you should safefly be able to shoot it much faster, and yet KED equation doesn't take that into acount.

You misunderstood what I said about material not making a difference. Even if you had this special dart, think about how ridiculously soft the front foam would be to extend the impact to even half a second long. There's just no practical way to make a dart fired from a nerf gun absorb much more of the impact than foam darts already do.
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#70 Nerforbust

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Posted 13 June 2005 - 03:25 PM

Chiefthe, when the maverick came out, it was a diffrent color pattern.

Will the firefly's colors change?
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