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Nite Finder Case Mod Done Right!

Say... this kinda looks like... a PPK!

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#1 Katachi

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:46 PM

Okay, I've started working on my own stripped down, cleaned up version of the PPK since Hunter hasn't acutally done anything more with his.

Here's what I got so far, it's all cut n paste from the wonderful thread over at NHQ:

Posted Image

The first coating of Bondo Jelly went well. I said "too much is better than not enough" and I was right, since I had some pock marks and air bubbles to fill.

The 3 different colors are:
whitish green - the first coat sanded down with sandpapers and Dremel to a fine grit paper
brown - I mixed the parts wrong! Too much hardner and it hardned in about 45 seconds! DO NOT mix yours to this color!
dark green - I had to mix up some more since the brown stuff hardened too fast.

I also had some problems with removing the "nerf" knobs. Apparently, the air chamber sticks out a little bit past the frame/shell, so when you sand it down, you're actually exposing the orange air chamber a bit. On the first bondo sanding, I actually sanded right through to the other side trying to level it out.

Also, if you remove the knobs, you have to take out one of the pegs that holds the screws for holding on the air chamber >_< I'll gob some bondo or Gorilla Glue in and replace the peg after the outside of the shell is finished.

Also also, you'll notice that there's no space left for mounting the LED lens assembly. I actually drilled a hole where it should go, and I'll be putting just an LED in a bic pen housing in the gun. No lens. Hey, it's got a 15 degree radius and it's bright!

As per suggestions, I'm rounding the lower part of the trigger guard. More pics and helpful tips to come!

Of course I edited it. THIRST's a good guy, and his internal work is outstanding. He was in a bad mood, I was up late, stressed out from work and tired, so things got out of hand. We're both past it now and would like the same from you.

Edited by Katachi, 17 July 2004 - 07:48 PM.

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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#2 Vintage

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:55 PM

Did you fill in the grooves in the back of the grip just to make it easier to paint? Or does it feel better to hold?

~Vintage
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#3 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:17 AM

Did you fill in the grooves in the back of the grip just to make it easier to paint? Or does it feel better to hold?

~Vintage

Umm.. Neither I guess. I just wanted them gone. They're kind of ugly on a gun that consists mostly of smooth surfaces. It's not that hard if you're interested in doing it on yours.
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#4 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:54 AM

Here's something I need to clear up, I'll put it into an easier to understand analogy instead of trying to explain why I hate electrical tape so much:

I come from an engineering university. In the dorms, EVERYONE modded their computers. EVERYONE put bigger hard drives in by themselves, everyone added more memory themselves, everyone overclocked the processors themselves.

So say a freshman comes to the dorms, reads some tutorials online and mods his computer. He then proceeds to brag about it and show off how awesome he is. At home, yeah maybe gramma couldn't do that, or the neighbors, but guess what? It's been done here before. By everyone else. We've seen it and heard it 100 times.

Now say that freshman modded his computer and maxxed it out, but put the whole thing in a 1985 Kenner Barbie convertible, with working headlights and tail lights. Now that takes some creativity and originality! Nobody gives a damn if you can follow a tutorial with pictures and copy of someone elses work. Bragging rights are earned by being original and creative or hardworking at the university. You don't earn them by showing up at a lan party with an ugly box.

So I look at the nerf websites, and the first thing I see are how to tutorials with step-by-step pics on how to add various barrels and whatnot. Okay, fine. But then I get to the forums and I see people all excited that they just made a gun with a petg barrel, and improved airflow like the tutorial said, and painted it like someone else did, but since there's not tutorial on how to make the gun look better, they leave it looking sloppy.

Should I be impressed that this person can follow directions? Definately not. Should I be impressed with something original like Groove's Buddha gun, or Pin up Xbow? Hell yeah. The Buddha gun was such a simple idea, but it was executed just right. Not like "look! it's a pic of the Terminator, cuz I terminate" or something lame. Dan Wask's General Bitch was another good example of simple deisgn, but high in the originality department. The General Lee was a cool ass Charger, and applying the paint and details to a large enough nerf gun was perfect.

In fact, so far, every TT and NF in that paintjob contest has been creative. Yeah some of them didn't look the greatest, but at least people are trying.

So for me, seeing rubber bands or electrical tape on the outside of a gun is like a freshman building the best computer, but holding the stock case together with rubber bands and electrical tape instead of screws. There's 100 better ways to go about it. But it seems here like the opposite is true. Rubber bands and electrical tape are the norm, and there's maybe 6 or 7 creative people here. And even less contributing to tutorials or new WORKING designs.

Maybe I am asking too much. Maybe there really is such a huge gap in skill levels. But at least I'm in a position to narrow that gap and teach you all some tricks. :P

The other thing is, in the games I play, guns that shoot 100+ feet are not allowed. Stefans are also not allowed. We play on campus or in city limits in public areas, and having anything reomotely dangerous attracts attention from campus or local police. We've come close to getting shut down because of over powered guns and custom darts with hard tips. . Plus, 80% of the time we play indoors, so anything over 40 feet is overkill. When your target is 15 feet away, a gun that shoots 20 feet is just as effective as a gun that shoots 40 feet. Most of us know how to make them shoot farther, but we dont' bother since there's no real point or advantage to it indoors.

So when everyone basically has a gun that fires about the same range, what do you to? You turn to case mods and custom shells for guns. Make sense?
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#5 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:01 AM

And now back on topic!

Okay so say you're working with the bondo fiberglass jelly, and the first time you mix a bit, it's close to hardening right, but not quite. Then you mix a little bit again, and it's still a bit on the soft side. Then the third time you get the mix JUST RIGHT, it heats up, cures fast, and ends up being perfect. KEEP A SMALL PIECE OF THAT MIX!!! Since the stuff is almost impossible to mix properly by weight or measurement, the only way to get it right is knowing the color it turns when it's optimal. If you keep that swatch of the mix that worked just right, you'll know how close you are to it next time! I mixed the stuff about 12 times and finally got a near perfect mix, so I'm keepin the swatch from that batch.

I decided not to put a "mock silencer" on this gun. They're kinda dumb. And I prefer the orange barrel for saftey. I'm keeping the original barrel intact, it sticks out like 2 inches, but it still looks good. I used Gorilla Glue to glue the barrel to the air flow restrictor to the air chamber so it won't come out. I also put a ton of bondo jelly inside the gun to hold the air chamber in place, since I removed the peg for screwing the air chamber to the gun shell. I'll probably drill a hole and screw the air chamber to the bondo jelly for extra hold.

More pics to come tonight! I gotta pull an all nighter to get some other props finished!

Next:
THE LED ASSEMBLY
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#6 NinjZ

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:29 AM

Just for defence, the rubber bands and bungess arent for holding the guns together, its for more range. The moc silencers are almost always for PETG or brass support. Holes get drilled to make them look like silencers just for looks instead of a boreing peace of PVC sticking out of your gun

I understand your reasoning now, but some things to still keep in mind. Most people play outdoors, so range and performance are more important than looks. Most mods are the same simply because they work, and are the only easy way to get good reults performance-wise. Most paintjobs/asthetic stuff is only done a slight detail to just make someones ordinary mod stand out a bit more ( in my opinion ). It was just getting annoying ( to me atleast ) to see you go on and on about sanding, bondo, e-tape etc when the person was usually ( but not all the time) more focused on the performance.

So back to topic, Im glad your starting to do these tips and tutorials on asthetic modding. I cant wait to see your finished NF.

Edited by NinjZ, 16 July 2004 - 01:32 AM.

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#7 ShortShit

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:58 AM

a shitty gun with a great paint job is a shitty gun.
a great gun with a shitty paint job is a great gun.

Katachi- I think your a pompous douche...

-functionality is all that matters in a nerf gun, not origionality, not aesthetically, just how well your gun works and how reliable it is. Tape and bands etc. on a gun server a purpose, they arent there due to the laziness of the person modding their gun, and it doesnt make them an uncreative nooblet, they are there to support or improve said gun.

Edited by ShortShit, 16 July 2004 - 02:18 AM.

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#8 okto

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:05 AM

*huzzahs*
well said, katachi. duct tape, rubber bands, etc make a gun look amateurish. im all for WELL DONE paintjobs and case mods, not to mention doing things that havent been done before, but another nitefinder with bits hacksawed off of it with nothign to seal the holes, all duct taped together, makes me wonder why these people bother.
my opinion on banding is that if youre going to spend time to mod it well (which a lot of people dont anyway), why add a device that is guaranteed to reduce the life of your weapon and transform it into a pile of useless plastic with a lot of effort invested in it? i recognize the performance increase, but if you feel you need that, reinforce the case, especially the cocking lever and plunger, and don't apply lateral force with rubber bands! the gun was not meant to have any stress at all sideways on the plunger, and it will snap. if you must band, do it along the axis of the plunger and cylinder, creating attachemnt points if need be rather than just tying them to the barrel or trigger guard.

back on topic: what is bondo jelly and where does it come from? it looks very fun...ive been wanting to reshape my RF20's case, but didnt know how to do it without using a ton of wood and/or making it look like a halfass job.
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#9 okto

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:08 AM

short, a great gun with a shitty paint job is a halfass job. you think he's a pompous douche cos youre too apathetic to do it right. the mediocre will always despise and revile those who excel.

and spell your insults right, lest you insult yourself.
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#10 NinjZ

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:25 AM

Its not half-assed if all he wanted to do was performance mod it....
Ive banded every spring gun ive ever owned, all of them are running fine like the day I modded it( some over 4 years old ). Ive tripped and thrown my NF 60', fully cocked, sliding across the ground, then hitting a wall and fireing and its fine. Ive shot probably close to 1,000 rounds through it and its still perfectly fine.

"duct tape, rubber bands, etc make a gun look amateurish. im all for WELL DONE paintjobs and case mods, not to mention doing things that havent been done before, but another nitefinder with bits hacksawed off of it with nothign to seal the holes, all duct taped together, makes me wonder why these people bother."

Because they are not expearienced or have the talent yet for modding. You cant diss them for trying.

You still dont understand, for most, its not a matter of half-assing, its a matter of not careing and just wanting the damn thing to shoot farther.
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#11 ShortShit

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:29 AM

lol a mediocre modder is not defined as: one who does not spray paint their guns purple and pink so its pretty. A mediocre modder is someone who slaps together their guns sloppily and without care, creating a poorly functional gun.

An awsome car in an ugly frame painted neon green is still an awsome car-- and the owner of the car is not a mediocre-halfass for not getting a better looking frame and a paint job; his car will still drive like no other despite its "visual handicap".

Im not premoting or defending people who dont care about their mods and do careless unreliable work, but tape and bands = noob while bondo and airbrush = elite? come on, paint a fricken picture if you want something pretty to look at.
This is NERF!

Edited by ShortShit, 16 July 2004 - 02:47 AM.

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#12 okto

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 02:33 AM

*laughs at paint a freaking picture* okay, nevermind.
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#13 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 03:38 AM

shortshit, did you even read my post? I dont' think I could have explained it any simpler. YOU don't care about how a gun looks. Good for you, I'm not going to care if you paint yours or not. I don't care about mediocre mods, but I don't think people should get so much praise for following someone else's tutorials when they're just step for step copying someone else's ideas, and skipping anything that someone can't hold their hand and walk them through.

If you arent' really reading my posts, maybe the bold will get your attention. Go back and read my post all the way through! When there is no need to mod a gun to 100 feet, and most guns have been modded about the same, people work on the aesthetics of the guns. People here can follow enough directions to mod the internals of a gun as well as the next guy, so it's time to start working on points for style. If you feel like playing with someting that looks like it was stolen from Home Depot's plumbing department, you go right ahead. But from that day on, I will refer to you as "That fat little plumber, Mario".

And as for bungee cords and rubber bands, yes, I know what they're for. I consider them gun internals, and as such, should go on the inside of the gun :P. It's ugly. I don't care if it adds 20 feet to your shots. Tying a squirrel on your gun might improve firing accuracy, but it's still just as ugly. Unless you like squirrels. Everyone here is content with keeping them on the outside, they haven't even considered moving them into the gun housings. When you're not playing on a football field, super range doesn't matter. I play mostly urban or indoor games and 15-30 feet is more than enough when you have the skills to use a gun and dodge darts at those ranges. Hell, I can even use a Supermaxx 350 stock effectively at those ranges.

Form Versus Function is an age old debate in the art and design world. This is just another example of it. Why settle for one or the other when you can have both?



You know what? Fuck it. I'll just make a gun you can be happy with:

Posted Image

There. If I told you it got better ranges than an Xbow would you carry that to a war? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#14 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 03:50 AM

Hahaha, I'm sorry. The Nerf STFU 6000 cracks me up every time I see it :P :P

Okay, back to the hardcore stuff:

Posted Image

Unfortunately, the pics turned out either too dark or too bright! :(

Anyway, the LED is nested snugly in that little white section of a Bic pen. I took out the board and wired the LED straight to the wires. I don't believe in resistors since the current draw is minimal and the voltage is under/at 3v. I cut just enough of a hole in the bondo jelly for the led to peek out. Sorry the pic didn't turn out. Too much flash.

The bondo inside the shell in the pic is to hold the air chamber in place better, since I had to sand off a peg that secured it to the shell. I'm sure I'll eventually find a more secure way to hold it in, but for now, we're doing the OUTSIDE of the gun! :P

Oh, here's what you're looking for:
http://www.bondo-onl...asp?itemNbr=496

Awesome stuff.

So the wiring is all tested, nested, and ready to go!

Here's the primer!

Posted Image

It's a cute little gun, and it's not getting a "mock silencer". The whole ideas is to make the most minimalistic NF ever, and adding to it would defeat the purpose of subtracting from the gun in the first place.

Tomorrow: GUNMETAL! WHO ELSE LOVES IT AS MUCH AS I DO???
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#15 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 04:06 AM

Oh, and with all this work, I didn't lose a SINGLE screw! How the hell can THIRST lose all his screws??? In the pieces he cut off, there's SIX SCREWS he could have used as replacements! He lost those too?? Maybe he ate them.

TIP: When taking a part guns, get a dixie cup or mug, or hat or SOMETHING to keep screws in. I like to have a small cup for screws and a large one for other parts. That way, nothing gets lost. It's all in a cup. Like pizza.
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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#16 NinjZ

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 04:14 AM

A moc silencer wouldnt work for yours anyways. Your not doing a brass or PETG barrel mod, so you dont need anything to support it, thats why the moc silencers are their. I am wondering what your going to do with the stock barrel though, dont you think itll look kinda funky being all "nipple" like sticking out the front?
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#17 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 04:23 AM

A moc silencer wouldnt work for yours anyways. Your not doing a brass or PETG barrel mod, so you dont need anything to support it, thats why the moc silencers are their. I am wondering what your going to do with the stock barrel though, dont you think itll look kinda funky being all "nipple" like sticking out the front?

I don't know. I didn't think you even needed that goofy thing. I'll go check.

MINUTES LATER:


Posted Image

Posted Image

Okay you tell me, does that look kinda funky? You really don't need that flanged piece at the end so I just left it off completely. I can still sand down the extra parts on that barrel. I'm open to suggestions...

Edited by Katachi, 16 July 2004 - 04:34 AM.

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"If I want something pretty, Ill paint a picuture. Courtesy of Shortshit" -THIRST

#18 Katachi

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 04:45 AM

You know, if you want, I could write STFU on it for you :P :P :P
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#19 THIRST

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 06:31 AM

Its not even modded, but I like how you completely hacked that blocky "Nerf" symbol entirely iff. Im guessing you used bondo to fill that in too right?

I didnt lose my screws, I cut them off. It didnt need them. 6 screws is plenty for the small case of the nitefinder. Combined with the low stress lvels it gives to its shell, having less screws makes it look better.

I hacked the triggr guard off because it was small and uncomfy, it didnt give my finger enough room.

And that isnt double barreled.

THIRST
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ko

#20 ShortShit

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 09:40 AM

I'm open to suggestions...

yeah I've got one:
why dont you take your little bondo NF and cram it up your bum. Maybe youll get a nice faded brown effect :P

-I read your whole post, and this is a nerf community, when people follow someone elses mod and make a functional gun and are excited to post about it, dont bring them down! Who the fuck are you nerf God? Good for them if they can successfully mod their gun even if it was unorigional and isnt pretty. Its still a step forward for whomever. I don't care that you and your friends are too lazy to have ranged wars and just shoot eachother from point blank all day long. Your saying because you dont need range, you all have a responsibility to make it pretty because you dont have to spend any time on preformance? Pshh I'm done with this argument, and it is ages old your right. Functionaly vs. Aestheticality, we've both chosen our sides. Have fun with your bondo and paintbrushes.

-oh and btw, I know its been said a great ugly gun is halfassed? Well a stock pretty gun thats been case modded and painted is halfassed. If you can have more range/power without damaging the gun, then your being a shmuck not to mod it to shoot further, your neglecting its potential power, and therefore doing a halfassed mod.

Edited by ShortShit, 16 July 2004 - 09:50 AM.

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#21 ompa

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 09:43 AM

Geez, different environments. Would you consider using an sm5k indoors? You'd probably be dead by the time you loaded your second shot. People would be pissed. It's the same thing. Indoors, unless you live in a mansion, you won't be any farther than 20 feet from someone, and extreme range is excessive and dangerous. His situation is different than ours, and he has no right to question what we do. However, we also have no right to criticize his, so let's just stop now. Also, he sometimes sells the guns for college students who have wars on campus, and I doubt they want a hot-glued together gun, they want something nice looking to show off to their friends. If it works all the better, but for impressions, looks work best. As for functionality, I believe he already said somewhere that he realizes that many of us could mod better than he could, he just wishes that mroe of us would add a more asthetic touch to our mods. Listen, just stop beating on him, and hopefully he'll learn to stop bugging us about the bondo. It gets annoying Katachi, I think we all know about Bondo at this point, and I already plan to get some.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 16 July 2004 - 09:46 AM.

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#22 THIRST

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:39 PM

Katachi, these are real guns, unlike your peices of crap.

This is the Katachi MK. 2

Mods:
Plunger head taken out
Plunger tube taken out
Plunger rod put it upside down
All screws removed

A very fine piece of hardware gets 134.87 feet.
Posted Image
Posted Image

This is my NF entry, the Katachi MK. 1 The Katachi MK. 1 does not look like an NF, but trust me it is, its just been bondo’d a lot!

Mods:

All internals and screws taken out.

A great gun, but a bit on the difficult side to mod. It gets 148.65 feet.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Comments? Questions?

Thanks Ninjz. You rock!

THIRST

Edited by THIRST, 16 July 2004 - 12:48 PM.

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ko

#23 cxwq

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:49 PM

Katachi, edit your previous posts rather than double or triple posting.

The vast majority of people here do not care about the looks of a gun. Since most of us play in wars where guns are allowed to shoot 100' performance is much more of an issue than appearance.

Personally I understand where you are coming from. None of my guns in the mods section are held together with e tape and rubberbands. My aesthetic is to maintain as much as possible of the original Nerf design. On the other hand, I try not to tell people they're doing a half-assed job just because they don't care about that stuff.
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#24 ompa

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:55 PM

Gah, can we just stop bickering with eachother? I think I gave a vaild explanation, and even Cx understands where both sides are coming from. I think we're all done now, this is getting ridiculous- all we're doing is getting angry over petty differences that we can't even control.

THIRST, is the settle-down thing over on NHQ now going to apply to here? Is there really an end to the arguement in sight?

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 16 July 2004 - 01:09 PM.

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#25 Langley

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:12 PM

If you arent' really reading my posts, maybe the bold will get your attention. Go back and read my post all the way through! When there is no need to mod a gun to 100 feet, and most guns have been modded about the same, people work on the aesthetics of the guns. People here can follow enough directions to mod the internals of a gun as well as the next guy, so it's time to start working on points for style. If you feel like playing with someting that looks like it was stolen from Home Depot's plumbing department, you go right ahead. But from that day on, I will refer to you as "That fat little plumber, Mario".

And as for bungee cords and rubber bands, yes, I know what they're for. I consider them gun internals, and as such, should go on the inside of the gun :P. It's ugly. I don't care if it adds 20 feet to your shots. Tying a squirrel on your gun might improve firing accuracy, but it's still just as ugly. Unless you like squirrels.  Everyone here is content with keeping them on the outside, they haven't even considered moving them into the gun housings. When you're not playing on a football field, super range doesn't matter. I play mostly urban or indoor games and 15-30 feet is more than enough when you have the skills to use a gun and dodge darts at those ranges. Hell, I can even use a Supermaxx 350 stock effectively at those ranges.

Form Versus Function is an age old debate in the art and design world. This is just another example of it. Why settle for one or the other when you can have both?

You know what? Fuck it. I'll just make a gun you can be happy with:

Posted Image

There. If I told you it got better ranges than an Xbow would you carry that to a war?

Yes. If it performed better in ROF, Range, and Accuracy than a Crossbow, and especially if it cost about as much as a cardboard tube and some rubberbands, I would carry it into a war. So would most of the nerfers I've talked to. Because the point of the game we play is to have a useable gun to go out and shoot people with. If you nerfed with modded guns with this group you would quickly find that time spent on the asthetics of your gun is time wasted.

So I look at the nerf websites, and the first thing I see are how to tutorials with step-by-step pics on how to add various barrels and whatnot. Okay, fine. But then I get to the forums and I see people all excited that they just made a gun with a petg barrel, and improved airflow like the tutorial said, and painted it like someone else did, but since there's not tutorial on how to make the gun look better, they leave it looking sloppy.


Show me. Go on. Show me one post. I can't think of a single post made by anyone active on the site that's just been about following the steps in a cx tutorial. There's always something a little different about the way things are done.

in the games I play, guns that shoot 100+ feet are not allowed. Stefans are also not allowed. We play on campus or in city limits in public areas, and having anything reomotely dangerous attracts attention from campus or local police. We've come close to getting shut down because of over powered guns and custom darts with hard tips. . Plus, 80% of the time we play indoors, so anything over 40 feet is overkill. When your target is 15 feet away, a gun that shoots 20 feet is just as effective as a gun that shoots 40 feet. Most of us know how to make them shoot farther, but we dont' bother since there's no real point or advantage to it indoors.


Why, exactly, are you here then? This forum caters almost exclusivley to nerfers who nerf outdoors with homemade darts. How can you critisize members of a group that are in a completely different league of nerfing than you are? Of coarse we have different values. You're one step up from a LARPer, we're three steps down from paintballers.

Since we're all comeing up with niftly little similies and metaphors, here's mine:
This is a gun enthusiests forum. 98% of the members are people who hunt in the wilderness with modern rifles. You're a civil war buff who just came in with a very nice pistol that fires ball-shot instead of bullets and has a very impressive hand carved ivory handle. Now your criticizing everyone else for not haveing a hand carved stock or handle.

Edit: beaten by CX while posting. In any case, yes, a clean mod is a better mod, but being more concerned with asthetics than performance is rediculous. Why don't you do something usefull with your skills like writing a tutorial on how to repair a cracked crossbow case with bondo or make a new trigger to replace your old one with epoxy resin?

Edited by Langley, 16 July 2004 - 01:17 PM.

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You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.

2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.



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