51 replies to this topic

[Kronos Nerf Mods]

Hey Guys, this is my first post, so any general feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Also, I would like some feedback on my redesign of the 1/2" PVC Wye.
I am planning to take the final design to a plastic injection molding company, and from all the general feedback I have gotten, the general verdict is that people want the wyes to be clear, have a direct connection to 1/2" PVC Couplers (see image below), and have better dart feeding because of a gentler slope and a dart ramp.

This is what my first iteration with the direct connection looked like:



I then went back to my design software and I shortened the wye (to save plastic) and set out to adjust the slope and to construct the dart ramp.
I demoed the new design in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dva1EPx36Co

Any questions or feedback would be great,
Thanks

[Tangerle]

Well I'll tell you right away, this impressed me. As insignificant as my opinion might be I think that this is a really cool idea. I also think that it would be cool if you were to experiment with different angles and find and ideal wye and post the results. This actually is making me think a little bit more about 3D printing... Plus they look cool.

Edited by Tangerle, 24 February 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[DartSlinger]

Are these made for streamline/elite darts and/or silicone domes? And will these work with them?

Also, don't you think that the way the dart ramp makes a major obstruction in airflow will diminish range?

[andtheherois]

That's pretty cool. However I do have one question. What would the cost of these per unit be? Currently Mcmaster sells wyes at 1.50 each. I could understand paying double for this if it feeds well. However, any more than that and I don't think it'd go over too well. Here on the east coast we all pretty much use slugs so it'd be a harder sell here if it was more expensive.

[azrael]

Isn't injection molding crazy expensive?

[The2ndBluesBro]

'azrael', on 24 Feb 2013 - 8:04 PM, said:

Isn't injection molding crazy expensive?

I think so but he's probably planning on making back the cost plus some extra by selling them off.

[Kronos Nerf Mods]

I am going to respond to as many posts as possible in this single reply:

@Tangerle: I am going to do some more testing with different angles and different ramps...

@DartSlinger: I don't know if my design will feed streamlines or silicone domes, I need to do some more tests with a more powerful blaster.

@andtheherois: I am hoping that the unit price will be about $3 per like you said, but I will most likely be taking bulk orders, which would lower the cost per unit.

@azrael: Injection molding isn't expensive if you order enough, I am planning to buy about 500-1000.

@The2ndBluesBro: I am planning to make a profit, so yes I will be charging "some extra by selling them off".

Thank You all for the excellent feedback, I will try to respond to all of the questions I get in a timely manner.

[snickers]

Have you found out how much shipping to me is going to be? It's only been 2 and 1/2 months .

[ShaNayNay]

'DartSlinger', on 24 Feb 2013 - 7:30 PM, said:

Also, don't you think that the way the dart ramp makes a major obstruction in airflow will diminish range?

As long as the hole has a 1/2" diameter its fine since that is the size of darts.


As for buying 500-1000, just make sure that you buy an amount that is possible to sell off. I don't believe there are 500-1000 nerfers that would be interested in these, and each person only needs so many. I don't mean to try to control your decisions or anything, just pointing this out.

[DartSlinger]

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 24 Feb 2013 - 8:53 PM, said:

@DartSlinger: I don't know if my design will feed streamlines or silicone domes, I need to do some more tests with a more powerful blaster.

If it doesn't fire silicone domes or steamlines, what is the point? Basically the only darts people use now are slugs, and slugs work just fine in regular wyes.

'ShaNayNay', on 24 Feb 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

'DartSlinger', on 24 Feb 2013 - 7:30 PM, said:

Also, don't you think that the way the dart ramp makes a major obstruction in airflow will diminish range?

As long as the hole has a 1/2" diameter its (sic) fine since that is the size of darts.

What I meant is that from a thermodynamics standpoint, the dart ramp is creating a wall in the way of airflow. Some of the air goes immediately through the hole, but the rest slams into the wall, creating energy loss through turbulence, friction and heat before it can be redirected through the hole.

[mysterio]

'DartSlinger', on 25 Feb 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

[/size]
If it doesn't fire silicone domes or steamlines, what is the point? Basically the only darts people use now are slugs, and slugs work just fine in regular wyes.


What I meant is that from a thermodynamics standpoint, the dart ramp is creating a wall in the way of airflow. Some of the air goes immediately through the hole, but the rest slams into the wall, creating energy loss through turbulence, friction and heat before it can be redirected through the hole.

Better feeding. Slugs can get jammed in regular wyes sometimes.

I dont believe those negatives outweigh the downside of having deadspace, although I may be wrong.

[Tangerle]

'DartSlinger', on 25 Feb 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

If it doesn't fire silicone domes or steamlines, what is the point? Basically the only darts people use now are slugs, and slugs work just fine in regular wyes.

Not all people shoot parallel to the ground at all times or make good feeding slugs. These make for usage to be easier and more consistent. Plus, they can be different colors which is totally badass.

Edited by Tangerle, 24 February 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Bchamp22795]

The ramp should be solid, Kronos. All the way through, so there is no "wall" for the air to hit. Just like my diagram. I think you know that, though. This was just a prototype to test feeding only.

[DartSlinger]

'mysterio', on 25 Feb 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Better feeding. Slugs can get jammed in regular wyes sometimes.

Very true. Although most of the time those slugs are badly made, and/or the person didn't chamfer their barrel entry enough.

'Tangerle', on 25 Feb 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Not all people shoot parallel to the ground at all times.

Well, if you're hunting birds with a BBBB...
Anyway, Your point? With these your hopper will be even less vertical, thus making darts gravity feed slightly less.

'Bchamp22795', on 25 Feb 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

The ramp should be solid, Kronos. All the way through, so there is no "wall" for the air to hit.

Agreed. It would also increase efficiency if the air is funneled.

[Goldie]

'DartSlinger', on 25 Feb 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

If it doesn't fire silicone domes or steamlines, what is the point? Basically the only darts people use now are slugs, and slugs work just fine in regular wyes.

This is untrue. The Nerf scene in Canada had a NO slug rule for a few years and Socal uses what ever the fuck it wants. Hell I know guys that have a ban of slugs and dome darts impart to get guys to try other types of ammo.


But lets not turn this into a debate on dart's now. If any one wish's to talk about this with me lets take it to PM's.


I toke me a while to figure out why this is cool. I think its cool because of these reasons. Aside for the reasons people have pointed out already.

1. Color! Bitches love color.

2. No using Mcmaster or flex PVC. Why is this a good thing? If any of these sites stop selling 1/2 inch wyes we now know we can make them. And I'm all for supporting the community even if I have to wait longer for shipping.

3. We can make what ever we need now. Think about it, we do stuff to PVC that no plumber would ever do. And because of that we could use couplers that no plumber would ever need and this guy showed use that he (we) can make them.

So my question to YOU Kronos...Think you could make other couplers?

Edited by Goldie, 25 February 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Kronos Nerf Mods]

Hey guys, I was unable to post until now as an FNG

@Shanaynay: I am looking long term, 500 would sell eventually, most likely after a year or two.

@DartSlinger: I am doing more revisions to the design, this was just a test, and the hole in the dart ramp will not act as a wall in the new design due to a funnel

@mysterio: Could you elaborate on deadspace? I am new to homemades.

@Bchamp22795: Yes the hole will go all the way through, and the hole will funnel in the air.

@Goldie: I can make other couplers, in fact I have been working on a design for a universal coupler that accepts 1/2" PVC and 1/2" CPVC; Thoughts?

Also can someone give me a brief list of commonly used stefans; I know about domes and slugs, but what other types, and what specific types of domes and slugs as well? I want to test as many as I can for reliability in the wye.
Thanks once again guys!

[Tangerle]

'DartSlinger', on 25 Feb 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

Well, if you're hunting birds with a BBBB...
Anyway, Your point? With these your hopper will be even less vertical, thus making darts gravity feed slightly less.

I get what you're saying, but many people fire up for shooting at further ranges and every little bit helps. Maybe a 55 degree angle would be more reasonable.

[DartSlinger]

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:32 PM, said:

Hey guys, I was unable to post until now as an FNG

I feel your pain on that one. That happened to me a lot when I was an FNG. Hey, I suggest that the moderators make you a Pleb.

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:32 PM, said:

Could you elaborate on deadspace? I am new to homemades.

Dead space is an unfilled orifice of air in a blaster or similar component such as a barrel or magazine (hopper, RSCB) which steals from the power of the blaster. Think of it this way. You have a SNAPbow with a barrel on the end. Pretty efficient right? Now imagine that right before the barrel, there is a big bulge in your barrel, right behind the dart. Pretty inefficient, right? That big open space will decrease the overall pressure made from your plunger, hence making your SNAPbow have lower range. Another example is this. You have a filled hopper. There is very little air to be compressed except that which is in the plunger tube. Now think of an empty hopper. All that unfilled space in the clip/magazine part of it has to compressed along with the air in the plunger, but there is still the same amount of pressure as there was when the hopper was full, so you get lower range.

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:32 PM, said:

@DartSlinger: I am doing more revisions to the design, this was just a test, and the hole in the dart ramp will not act as a wall in the new design due to a funnel

@Bchamp22795: Yes the hole will go all the way through, and the hole will funnel in the air.

I am glad to hear of these revisions. It will make it more efficient.

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:32 PM, said:

I can make other couplers, in fact I have been working on a design for a universal coupler that accepts 1/2" PVC and 1/2" CPVC; Thoughts?

That sounds very interesting. I would definitely appreciate a coupler where you could just slap a piece of CPVC into it to test fire, instead of having to find a barrel that's been pounded into PVC.

'Kronos Nerf Mods', on 25 Feb 2013 - 9:32 PM, said:

Also can someone give me a brief list of commonly used stefans; I know about domes and slugs, but what other types, and what specific types of domes and slugs as well? I want to test as many as I can for reliability in the wye.

• AMIORS
• Putty-wrap darts
• Eraser darts
• "Freehand" molded silicone darts
• Work-out mat dart heads (scroll down)
• Vinyl tubing instead of washers, Bushings instead of washers These two are basically just slugs, though, with different weights.

Edited by DartSlinger, 25 February 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[andtheherois]

'DartSlinger', on 25 Feb 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

• AMIORS
• Putty-wrap darts
• Eraser darts
• "Freehand" molded silicone darts
• Work-out mat dart heads (scroll down)
• Vinyl tubing instead of washers, Bushings instead of washers These two are basically just slugs, though, with different weights.

I wouldn't say these are that common. At least here, we all still use metal washers for weights. Its easy and you'd have to be an idiot to mess it up. Exposed metal blah blah blah.

At any rate, I'd say the most common form of darts are Slugs, glue domes, and silicone domes. Perhaps with amiors being in the top 4. You can ignore everything else. Though I'd say if it can feed silicone domes then it shouldn't have a problem feeding anything else.

Also any blaster powerful enough should feed from a 35* angle. If it can then you're using the blaster wrong.

Don't worry about dead space so much. What you're introducing is no more than what a normal wye already goes, and that amount is negligible on any blaster that's able to fire a hopper well (again if dead space is an issue for you, you're doing it wrong). However I feel that the wye should come without the stub. I personally like to make sure my stub is right up against the bushing of my blaster, and that changes depending on the manufacturer. You could keep the ramp, but make it so that you can still plug in 1/2 PVC.

[Kronos Nerf Mods]

@dartslinger: Being a pleb would be great thanks!
Also the revisions should eliminate the deadspace.

@andtheherois: I have already eliminated most of the deadspace in the design.
Also the nub does raise a very important question. I will ask for a general consensus when/if I make another post.

[lech]

Is it easy/possible to lower the angle further to help feeding of long darts/stock darts/silicone tips?

What sort of printer do you print these on ? Are you planning on making the files available for others?

[The2ndBluesBro]

Disregard.

Edited by The2ndBluesBro, 26 February 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[Kronos Nerf Mods]

@lech, It would require me to redo parts of the design, and I think that the design will be able to feed silicon tips, but I am not sure yet, and it should have an easier time with long darts.
I actually don't know what the printer is called off hand, it is my friends. I have my own, but it prints big things with less detail, whereas his prints small stuff with great detail.
Also I have been thinking about making a subscription system for my designs, no official plans yet though.....

[CaptainSlug]

Shallower angles are possible provided that one of the ports in the wye is offset. Realizing this I managed to get down to a 22.5 degree angle.

Going too shallow might lead to clearance issues with other parts of the blaster. Especially on blasters with larger diameter plunger tubes.

[Langley]

'CaptainSlug', on 28 Mar 2013 - 4:59 PM, said:

Shallower angles are possible provided that one of the ports in the wye is offset. Realizing this I managed to get down to a 22.5 degree angle.

Holy shit it's Captain Slug.


Hi Slug!