29 replies to this topic

[Sinaz20]

Hello NerfHaven! I'm new here.

A few years back, I started a hobby project centered around Nerf custom gunsmithing. Essentially, I want to design Nerf-compatible weapons that look production final, and perhaps offer them up on limited casting/painting runs.

I went on hiatus due to jobs and moving... but now things are settled down, and I can return my attention to it.

The first project is called XB-REV-001, and is a "reskin" of a Maverick. It is designed to cannibalize the internals of a Maverick into a new shell.

I am hoping to create a series of weapon reskins that carry my own design aesthetic, yet remain compatible with Nerf darts and accessories.

The process goes a little like this (and I'm still figuring some of this out as I go):

• Concept sketches
• 3D mock-up in Sketchup
• Engineering to accomodate internals
• 3D print shell for scale and adjustments (Shapeways)
• Detail sculpt in ZBrush
• 3D print prototype parts
• Mold and cast final weapons in high-quality epoxy resin

Here, i will be tracking the development of the XB-REV-001. I'll try to keep all the progress in this first post, and just compact old information (and collapse images into links.) So... here we go...

CONCEPT
The XB-REV-001 is intended to be an eXperimental Blaster, built on the REVolver layout of the Maverick, first in its series.

I wanted to design something that was a low-axis barrel revolver configuration (like a Mateba or Rhino) and compact in comparison to most Nerf blasters. As a base model, I wanted something snub-nose, but I have ideas for longer and tactical versions (with more integrated rails under the cylinder.

Here is the sketch:


3D MOCK-UP & ENGINEERING
One of the biggest challenges in converting the Maverick internals into a low-axis revolver was figuring out how to get the trigger mechanism connected to the cycling mechanism. The plastic arm that would extend up and around the piston was getting so long that I started thinking it would just turn into a flexible lever.

Instead, I came up with the idea of linking the piston cocking mechanism to the cycler, and modifying it to lock into position when the slide returns forward. This means the cycling mechanism will have a recast part, and no longer will the cylinder rotate into firing position during the trigger pull.

The trigger now makes a firmer mechanical connection to the piston release rather than interfacing through a lever. Everything else works as expected.

The cylinder itself will be locked into the frame, and, as you can see, the top 3 chambers are exposed, so you can reload whenever without having to pop the cylinder out.





With internals visible:


And finally, the barrel is based on the Nerf standard for adapting barrel extensions, as shown here with the Recon barrel for demonstration purposes:




Next up... I have to work out the internal void of the shell, mount points, and guides inside the weapon.


...Comments, suggestions... always welcome. I'm making this for you!

Edited by Sinaz20, 02 December 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[evilbunnyo]

As much as the point of NERF is to stay away from real firearm looking weapons I like this. That's a pretty cool looking mock up you got there. IT looks right now to be a reverse plunger so if you could, try to make it a direct plunger since that is more effective. I would love to see more updates on this if it doesn't get shutdown or derailed.

[Crater]

Looks very nice! It appears from the pictures that the CAD work is done or almost done; is that correct?

Also, concept threads are generally extremely erotic* on NerfHaven, but I think that's because they're usually just general ideas that haven't had much work put into them. This thread has a lot of information and it's clear you've put in a lot of work and intend to actually produce something, so I think this thread is exceptable and acceptable.

As much as the point of NERF is to stay away from real firearm looking weapons I like this. That's a pretty cool looking mock up you got there. IT looks right now to be a reverse plunger so if you could, try to make it a direct plunger since that is more effective. I would love to see more updates on this if it doesn't get shutdown or derailed.

I too would like a direct plunger. I understand you want to reuse the Maverick's internals, so I see why you put in the inverse plunger, but have you considered designing the shell so that it would be easy to replace it with a direct plunger if the user wants to?

*I was wondering what produced "extremely erotic". Now I know.

[Kanashimi]

One piece of advice I'd give is to make the slide a bit bigger. As it is, it looks way too small to comfortably (and quickly) prime.

Otherwise, that is a really cool looking shell design, and I like the use of the Spectre style cylinder advancement. Nice job.

-Kanashimi

[Sinaz20]

Ummm... well... give [by give, I meant suggest] me a particular direct plunger gun you would prefer I use. I'll tear one open and mock up the plunger... see if I can adapt it in there. Maybe there will be two editions-- the pure Maverick one, and the one that accepts a plunger from a different weapon.

I have a Recon handy... so if that plunger is a good pick, I'll get on it.

...and I know concept threads are a little poo poo around here... but I mean... I engineered the internals... so... this is a little more than speculation.

[edit]
I can't post any more today... I'll follow up with suggestions and comments tomorrow.
...but to BChamp: I have a couple Nite Finders!
[/edit]

Edited by Sinaz20, 02 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[ShaNayNay]

I haven't seen many attempts at designing shells for internal replacements here; it sounds like a cool idea and I hope it works out well. As I have never been a fan of the Maverick, it will be cool to see a better looking version of it pop up.

So it seems that "Frowned_Upon" triggers the extremely erotic filter, how interesting...

Edited by ShaNayNay, 02 December 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[pop tart]

This is quite nice. I love CAD. Hopefully more homemades will actually look good, like this one, in the future.

[Daniel Beaver]

This would be a lot cooler if you hadn't picked a nerf gun with such terrible internal components.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 02 December 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Bchamp22795]

The Big Bad Bow has a nice, large direct plunger tube. It may be too large. If that's the case, then a Nite Finder is still a valid option.

[XproXglassX]

Instead of the priming slide, because 1 or 2 people were saying it was small, make the priming like a nitefinder/tech target. You already have the straw plunger end sticking out so just extend that and put some kind of loop to pull on. Hell, you can even make a custom attachment to add the the front to make it like a crossbow kinda. Around the same concept of some peoples nitefinders, they put a rubber band from the loop to the front to help the plunger compress even faster.

[Frant1c]

Like the idea for this. A direct plunger would better cater to the community you might prospectively be selling to, but it looks like you're going for size over function. It's hard to tell from the pics, but a bigger slide might be nice. This one looks small. But without the product in my hands/any references (like, compared against a Maverick) it's hard to tell. Last point: if you're making the front compatible with Nerf attachments, why not go for broke and make the back compatible with Nerf stocks?

Cool design. I remember the original post actually, and thinking: Man, this is cool but this guy will never deliver. Glad to see you're returning to the project. Good luck.

[CigarBaby]

If you're patient, wait until the Elite Strongarm comes out. It will give you a better model to replicate the internals from.

[Crater]

Ummm... well... give [by give, I meant suggest] me a particular direct plunger gun you would prefer I use. I'll tear one open and mock up the plunger... see if I can adapt it in there. Maybe there will be two editions-- the pure Maverick one, and the one that accepts a plunger from a different weapon.

I have a Recon handy... so if that plunger is a good pick, I'll get on it.

I don't recommend the Recon; it has an inverse plunger too, and it's about the same size, so I don't think it would be an improvement. The difficult thing is finding a plunger system that will fit in the same space. Maybe a Retaliator/Rampage plunger would work. It would be quite expensive, though, to have to buy two blasters to make one of these.

I was actually imagining a homemade direct plunger that people could make and install themselves. A mod to your stock blaster, if you will. You could make it quite a bit easier to install a larger plunger just by widening the inside of the shell in that area enough to accomodate a NF plunger, for example. (I just thought of that because NiteMavs are somewhat popular, but the Maverick shell has to be widened or replaced to accommodate the larger plunger diameter.)

On the other hand, as much as I'd like a direct plunger, I'd much rather use your current design than a regular Maverick.

Instead of the priming slide, because 1 or 2 people were saying it was small, make the priming like a nitefinder/tech target. You already have the straw plunger end sticking out so just extend that and put some kind of loop to pull on. Hell, you can even make a custom attachment to add the the front to make it like a crossbow kinda. Around the same concept of some peoples nitefinders, they put a rubber band from the loop to the front to help the plunger compress even faster.

Bungees/rubber bands wouldn't be compatible with the turret rotation being linked to the priming slide. The slide needs to be cycled all the way back and forward again before the trigger is pulled (as with the Spectre). Maybe there could be a post on the back of the plunger, separate from the priming grip, that could have external springs attached.

On the other hand, I could be completely misinterpreting your suggestion. What do you mean by "straw plunger end"?

if you're making the front compatible with Nerf attachments, why not go for broke and make the back compatible with Nerf stocks?

My opinion: if a stock mount was added above the priming grip, it would make priming very difficult; if one was added behind the priming grip, it would likely be very ugly. (I guess the shell could be tapered outward to the stock mount's size, which would be a little nicer-looking but would add length.)

[Sinaz20]

(There's a limit to the number of quote blocks I can have in a post??? - I will manually quote, then. AND a limit to emoticons??? 3 is too much? I hope I haven't used up my adjective quota as well...)

Woohoo! I can post!

Ok, because of this long probationary period, I'm going to have to try and answer questions in bulk... so here comes, potentially, a very long post...

@evilbunnyo
"As much as the point of NERF is to stay away from real firearm looking weapons I like this."

I don't think my design looks any less toy-ish than some other Nerf guns. I mean, right now the colors are gray... but I can cast the finished product in bright yellow if it makes people more comfortable. I expect to paint the final products, or offer them plain for enthusiasts to paint themselves.

@Crater
"Looks very nice! It appears from the pictures that the CAD work is done or almost done; is that correct?"

The core design is almost done. I have enough now that I will probably send out just the shell to get printed so I can hold it in my hand and make sure it is a good size and comfortable to hold.

But there's still the matter of designing the internal cavity of the gun to hold all the guts, gotta figure out where to put screws, and then the exterior surface needs a beauty sculpt in Zbrush.

@Kanashimi
"One piece of advice I'd give is to make the slide a bit bigger. As it is, it looks way too small to comfortably (and quickly) prime."

Maybe it's hard to see-- but to offset the smaller slide, I put these flanges on either side meant to give you a solid finger-hold of the minimalist slide. It's small partly due to aesthetics, but mostly due to function. The piston chamber already made the weapon larger than I intended. I think there is enough room there, though, to extend it another half an inch or so... but, as I mentioned earlier, I'll be getting the rough shell printed so I can hold it and fidget with it. Then I'll know for sure whether or not the slide needs that extra surface area or what.

@Bchamp22795
"The Big Bad Bow has a nice, large direct plunger tube. It may be too large. If that's the case, then a Nite Finder is still a valid option."

Is there a Compact Bad Bow? Because I'm trying to design a snub revolver. I will address the direct plunger further down...

@XproXglassX
"Instead of the priming slide, because 1 or 2 people were saying it was small, make the priming like a nitefinder/tech target. You already have the straw plunger end sticking out so just extend that and put some kind of loop to pull on."

I think what you are referring to as the "straw plunger" is actually the shaft that cranks the cylinder. That orange part sticking out where the slide wraps around it-- basically, when you pull the slide back, it catches on the back flange and pulls the shaft back 5/8" which starts the rotation of the cylinder. Then when the slide returns, it catches the front flange and pushes the shaft back to it's forward position which locks the cylinder into firing position. I accomplished this by angling the shaft 30 degrees off angle so that the forward position aligns the chambers rather than the Maverick's original back position.

@Frant1c
"Last point: if you're making the front compatible with Nerf attachments, why not go for broke and make the back compatible with Nerf stocks?"

I actually have a 3D design that has the stock adapter... but it starts to look like a micro version of the Rayven Let me finish this design, and then, once proven, I can move forward with additional revisions... a long barrel version, a tactical version, a "carbine" version. Thanks for that suggestion, though. Just want to let you know it's definitely on my radar.

@CigarBaby
If you're patient, wait until the Elite Strongarm comes out. It will give you a better model to replicate the internals from."

I'm not patient enough to sit around and twiddle my thumbs until Nerf releases a better platform... the original point of this, anyway, is to make something more loveable out of the guts of the Maverick. I'll keep pushing forward. I'll be happy to adapt other internals into new designs, or even eventually start designing my own internals in future projects.

@Crater
"I don't recommend the Recon; it has an inverse plunger too, and it's about the same size, so I don't think it would be an improvement. The difficult thing is finding a plunger system that will fit in the same space. Maybe a Retaliator/Rampage plunger would work. It would be quite expensive, though, to have to buy two blasters to make one of these."

That's something important to consider-- I want to cannibalize one and only one Maverick to make this work. Think of it mainly as a custom Maverick.

@Crater
"I was actually imagining a homemade direct plunger that people could make and install themselves. A mod to your stock blaster, if you will. You could make it quite a bit easier to install a larger plunger just by widening the inside of the shell in that area enough to accomodate a NF plunger, for example. (I just thought of that because NiteMavs are somewhat popular, but the Maverick shell has to be widened or replaced to accommodate the larger plunger diameter.)"

So... the problem with that idea, and possibly using any other direct plunger system, is that the cavity that holds the plunger also has special guides molded into it that the internals usually mount to or ride along. So, to open it up for a larger plunger altogether would require some sort of adapter to accommodate the Maverick plunger.

It would be better to address this in a revision. So, perhaps there could be a version with a cavity specifically designed for... I don't know... some larger plunger. But again, we get back to the notion that people will have to cannibalize more blasters. Maybe this is an idea I'll have to file away for a future project.

@Crater
"Bungees/rubber bands wouldn't be compatible with the turret rotation being linked to the priming slide. The slide needs to be cycled all the way back and forward again before the trigger is pulled (as with the Spectre). Maybe there could be a post on the back of the plunger, separate from the priming grip, that could have external springs attached."

Well... a rubber band could be used... you'd just have to figure out how to decouple the slide from the priming mechanism at the back of the action. If the rubber band is attached to a carriage, then the slide would just push the carriage back. It's pretty much the same thing as the inverse plunger in the Maverick as is-- the slide just pushes the shroud back against a latch, then the slide comes forward under another spring's power.

@Crater
"My opinion: if a stock mount was added above the priming grip, it would make priming very difficult; if one was added behind the priming grip, it would likely be very ugly. (I guess the shell could be tapered outward to the stock mount's size, which would be a little nicer-looking but would add length.)"

The design I had worked up trying to figure out how to handle stock adapters ended up extending the frame up from the bottom-back of the grip to mate with the underside of the piston chamber. Then that served as reinforcement for the adapter... but it looked more like a bullpup PDW at that point than a revolver.

Edited by Sinaz20, 03 December 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[zx532]

Something you could try is just making the existing Maverick a direct plunger (it would still be low volume, but it would be marginally more efficient)

All youd have to do is spin it around (and since youre already completely fabricating the shell it shouldn't be too hard
drill a hole in the back of the PT (now the front)
plug up the end of the plunger rod (as close to the o ring as possible)

you would have to make a special catch for it though

Also, like many others have previously said, amazing blaster design

[Meaker VI]

...

Can you please change the color of your quoted text? Some of us use the original "Dark" view scheme, and as it's all dark blue, I can't read your quotes. Use red, I don't think there is a style that red conflicts with.

I agree with the above posters that the maverick is a questionable blaster to be applying this process to, as it is not known for great performance. However, I'd love to see your design improve on the maverick; and I understand why you'd be doing it first (It is one of the most popular blasters out there).

I'd personally love to get good-looking shells on homemade blasters, but I'm not keen on needing to spend more money on the blaster to be cannibalized. If you could design the blaster such that it doesn't need an official blaster at all, that'd be ideal. Say you create rings that fit into your shell made so they rotate with the internal mech, but the end-user can create whatever barrels they want and attach them to your rings. Perhaps you could also print & cast -or otherwise manufacture- trigger mechs that can fit into your shell, and adapt readily available homemade internal parts to the blaster. Make the requirements easy to do (cut & trim the PVC to length, build a plunger head, cut a main spring, insert into shell), do the hard stuff for the end-user (the trigger & catch - including necessary springs, internal mechs, and shell), and make it perform better than the stock version it's modeled after and you'll have something really cool.

[Zorns Lemma]

Since the quality and effort here is much better than your regular MS Paint concept thread, it won't be locked immediately. However, my confidence in this project actually seeing fruition is fairly low.

What resources do you have for 3D printing and resin casting?
How are you factoring cost into desired production?

The last member with a successful 3D design thread had personal access to a 3D printer. The rest following mostly died through halfway. You seem to be relying on 3rd party services which seems very cost prohibitive to a hobby like this.

[Sinaz20]

Since the quality and effort here is much better than your regular MS Paint concept thread, it won't be locked immediately. However, my confidence in this project actually seeing fruition is fairly low.

Ok... well... I guess I can't stop you from doing that.

What resources do you have for 3D printing and resin casting?
How are you factoring cost into desired production?

For 3D printing, I am currently receiving quotes from various 3rd party printers. There is also a group of friends/colleagues who have been talking about pooling resources to set up a MakerBot co-op. I am also investigating the cost effectiveness of purchasing a 3D printer myself, since I can imagine a lifetime of applications for it.

Resin casting is a simple cottage manufacturing process. I have silicone mold material and a couple different resins currently on hand, and a bunch of random lumber and odds and ends to build mold boxes. I'm not doing ABS injection or anything, but once I get a suitable prototype part and move onto the casting, I imagine there will be some experimentation.

As for factoring cost... at the moment, I'm not. I have money, time, and determination. If it costs me $2000 and I feel I got $2000 worth of personal satisfaction out of it, it will have all been worth while.

The last member with a successful 3D design thread had personal access to a 3D printer. The rest following mostly died through halfway. You seem to be relying on 3rd party services which seems very cost prohibitive to a hobby like this.

What is "cost prohibitive?" True, 3rd party printing is expensive. Current quotes that I'm seeing is about $35 $13* for a plaster plastic* print of half the shell at about 1/8" wall thickness. Comes to about $90 $35* for my hand-feel prototype. That's certainly well within my fun-budget.

*Sculpteo! Best quote so far!

Also @Meaker-- I changed the text color.

Thanks for the props for my blaster design, everyone. I hope it'll look 100x better after the beauty sculpt.

Edited by Sinaz20, 03 December 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Meaker VI]

For 3D printing, I am currently receiving quotes from various 3rd party printers. There is also a group of friends/colleagues who have been talking about pooling resources to set up a MakerBot co-op. I am also investigating the cost effectiveness of purchasing a 3D printer myself, since I can imagine a lifetime of applications for it.

If you're looking into buying a 3d printer, you might consider instead a mill or carving machine. The Carvewright immediately comes to mind as a commercially-available solution, but there are others. The finish should be better, so you'll have less cleanup work before molding. Along with that, I recently learned about a 3d printing technology that might be interesting to look into: Mcor Technologies' Iris. It appears to use standard bond paper rather than spools of print medium, and can print out full-color mock ups out of the machine. Looks like an interesting product compared with other machine types.

Also @Meaker-- I changed the text color.

Much improved, thank you. Any comments on the rest of my post? I'd really love to see something like this applied to more than just re-shelling, making redesigned blasters that function better than their counterparts for those of us with some homemade savvy would be awesome.

[Zorns Lemma]

What is "cost prohibitive?" True, 3rd party printing is expensive. Current quotes that I'm seeing is about $35 $13* for a plaster plastic* print of half the shell at about 1/8" wall thickness. Comes to about $90 $35* for my hand-feel prototype. That's certainly well within my fun-budget.

My questions were framed before knowing your intention with his design or resources.
If you wanted to make some sort of conversion kit that you could then sell to other people, it wouldn't make a lot of sense then for it to be 4-5x the price of a Maverick.

Look into the elite line remakes of the Raider & Longstrike if you want examples of what we call direct plunger systems, while still implemented in a compact manner, but as it seems your purpose is more a cosmetic rearrangement of bulk maverick parts rather than to 3D print a full/new/efficient war blaster, so I wouldn't worry about it; do whatever you want since its your own project anyways.

Edited by Zorn's Lemma, 04 December 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Sinaz20]

My questions were framed before knowing your intention with his design or resources.
If you wanted to make some sort of conversion kit that you could then sell to other people, it wouldn't make a lot of sense then for it to be 4-5x the price of a Maverick.

Look into the elite line remakes of the Raider & Longstrike if you want examples of what we call direct plunger systems, while still implemented in a compact manner, but as it seems your purpose is more a cosmetic rearrangement of bulk maverick parts rather than to 3D print a full/new/efficient war blaster, so I wouldn't worry about it; do whatever you want since its your own project anyways.

I will definitely look into custom internals in a future project. A private convo with Meaker made some good points about it. For now, though, I want to finish this project to prove all my methods. Once I'm sure I can do this from concept to production, then I'll really dig into internals.

As for the cost... I figure a lot of people own one or more Mavericks already. And personally for me, I like the concept of the Maverick, just not the sort of reject look of it. Nerf has a new revolver coming out, but it still has that weird forward-of-the-trigger cylinder design.

So maybe I'll make this project so anyone who cares to can beautify their Maverick (if they think it's kinda ugly) and then I'll make another revision that adapts the Strong Arm... or just make a completely custom version.

Thanks.

[Sinaz20]

Hit an interesting snag-- Shapeways specifically prohibits printing or even uploading any "weaponry look" models. I emailed them for clarification. They mentioned Federal penalties... but didn't go beyond that. I have asked for further clarification.

Other 3D printing services do not make this restriction, but I have emailed them just to be sure.

I also found a local "HackerSpace," and am considering joining, but the dues are so high, I might as well just buy a 3D printer myself... which I have also been researching.

All this... just to say: I am about to send off models to print the "hand-feel" prototype. I'm just trying to get the model down to bare minimal material by sort of punching it full of holes (using 123D Make to convert my rough shells into lattices of material.)

Ponoko.com is my current printer of choice because it gives me reasonable printing rates in sub-premium materials and don't seem to have any restrictions on what can be printed.

[Meaker VI]

I also found a local "HackerSpace," and am considering joining, but the dues are so high, I might as well just buy a 3D printer myself... which I have also been researching.

I know my local 'hackerspace' will do hourly stuff, and really basically anything if you ask nicely, but they don't advertise that they do. See if they'd just print your file out and give the item to you for some cost.

[Sinaz20]

Hand-feel prototype is printing via Ponoko currently. Should receive it sometime after Christmas unless some problem comes up.

[Xakot]

If and when this project comes to fruition i would be willing to purchase a model and would love to see a direct plunger system. I love the design of this thing

Don't post in topics older than a couple of weeks without significant new info to add...this thread last saw action in the middle of December. Please read the Code of Conduct.

Edited by Carbon, 05 February 2013 - 10:56 PM.