43 replies to this topic

[Unit ZER0]

I built the prototype of this blaster about 4 years ago, but recently, it broke, and I brought it back to life with another spring, and new body. It's intentionally unpainted, so that others can see what parts went into it, and maybe build their own. Here are the physical Specs:

TOTAL LENGTH: 48 inches
TOTAL WEIGHT: Approx. 2.75Lbs
TOTAL AMMO CAPACITY: 2X6 round clips, or 1x6 rounds, and 1X18 rounds
MAX RANGE: 100+ft (At ideal angle)
MAX HEADSHOT RANGE: 35-40ft (Without a breeze)

Modifications from stock:
Additional barrel extension
AR Removal
Triple spring (Three Longshot springs, nested inside each other)
Removal of secondary blaster, installation of LASER sight
Additional tactical rail for accessories at front of barrel
Muzzle "brake"

Photos Below:

Side:

Top:

Front:

Breakdown:

(NOTE: you cannot extend the stock, in order to successfully draw the bolt back.)

Edited by Unit ZER0, 27 November 2010 - 02:20 AM.

[Blue]

So... you did an AR removal and glued some stuff to a longshot? This type of stuff belongs in the mod PJ thread, there is no write up here.

[Galaxy613]

It looks nice, but you expect us to believe that 3 LS springs and an AR removal can get you 100ft ranges?

[VelveetaAvenger]

Galaxy613, on Nov 27 2010, 02:46 PM, said:

It looks nice, but you expect us to believe that 3 LS springs and an AR removal can get you 100ft ranges?

I'm guessing that "Ideal Angle" means 45°, not flat. The "Headshot" range is probably closer to what it gets.

I had no idea that 3 longshot springs even could be nested. I couldn't get one to nest inside a lanard shot gun spring, which is slightly larger.

[Talio]

Yeah, this is kinda crazy. It looks cool and I bet it does okay for a long shot, but 100 ft+ I don't think it's doing. Although Split said once he could get a longshot as good as a plusbow, so how knows. Maybe it's possible.

[Unit ZER0]

VelveetaAvenger, on Nov 27 2010, 04:03 PM, said:

Galaxy613, on Nov 27 2010, 02:46 PM, said:

It looks nice, but you expect us to believe that 3 LS springs and an AR removal can get you 100ft ranges?

I'm guessing that "Ideal Angle" means 45°, not flat. The "Headshot" range is probably closer to what it gets.

I had no idea that 3 longshot springs even could be nested. I couldn't get one to nest inside a lanard shot gun spring, which is slightly larger.

I took two of the springs and compressed them down with a vice-grips so they could be nested, then cut the ends with cutters so all three springs were the same length. And, Ideal angle is closer to 25-30 degrees up off horizontal. My house is about 35 feet long, and at that angle the darts still hit about 7 feet off the floor when fired at that angle from shoulder level. When I tested it outside, 95 to 100 feet was the average distance. Dart quality, condition, and type affect overall range, ("E" darts go further than "T" darts, for example) and at max range the accuracy isn't the greatest, but it will keep opponents heads down. Headshot Distance refers to the maximum distance the laser dot and the scope converge at, and at which shots can be reliably placed using the graduations on the scope itself as reference. I boresighted the laser to about this range. Under real-world conditions, I have scored three headshots at about the 35 foot range.

Edited by Unit ZER0, 28 November 2010 - 01:11 AM.

[Collective]

Remind me never to nerf with you if you run around aiming for peoples' heads.

[Unit ZER0]

Collective, on Nov 28 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Remind me never to nerf with you if you run around aiming for peoples' heads.

Actually, I prefer to sharpshoot more than run around. Just don't stand still too long, and you'll be reasonably safe.

Edited by Unit ZER0, 28 November 2010 - 01:13 AM.

[Kid Flash]

Collective, on Nov 28 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Remind me never to nerf with you if you run around aiming for peoples' heads.

Agreed.

[Echnalaid]

Unit ZER0, on Nov 27 2010, 10:12 PM, said:

Collective, on Nov 28 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Remind me never to nerf with you if you run around aiming for peoples' heads.

Actually, I prefer to sharpshoot more than run around. Just don't stand still too long, and you'll be reasonably safe.

If that's your strategy, you're never gonna get good hits on anyone.
I feel bad for giving you flak about this like everyone else, but that's not the nerf mentality.
Although i must give you some credit, long blasters please me.

[Banshee]

Nerf isn't about sharp shooting. If that's what you want to do, play airsoft. Nerf is about running around and jumping around corners at close range and shooting people's bodies (not heads). That's why Nerf guns that aren't manual powered (cocking or pumping) or have ranges of well over 100 feet are generally extremely erotic because they defeat the purpose of nerfing.

And I assume you can't extent the stock because when you cock it, the stock collapses? That's what the stock-lock mod is for, open it up and stick some PVC in there to keep it from closing. It'll be (somewhat) permanently extended, but it's better that way anyways.

[Blue]

This is just a longshot that has an AR removal and spring additions that has a lsfg with a giant barrel on it. There is no way you can be a "sharp shooter" with streamlines, let alone get the ranges of 100 feet.

[Unit ZER0]

Banshee, on Nov 29 2010, 12:05 AM, said:

Nerf isn't about sharp shooting. If that's what you want to do, play airsoft. Nerf is about running around and jumping around corners at close range and shooting people's bodies (not heads). That's why Nerf guns that aren't manual powered (cocking or pumping) or have ranges of well over 100 feet are generally extremely erotic because they defeat the purpose of nerfing.

And I assume you can't extent the stock because when you cock it, the stock collapses? That's what the stock-lock mod is for, open it up and stick some PVC in there to keep it from closing. It'll be (somewhat) permanently extended, but it's better that way anyways.

Thanks for the info. In theory you could use this blaster in the "typical" nerfer manner. (running around, jumping, etc.) That's what my other project, the Gyrostabilizer Module does, it makes a blaster this long easy to aim, because it makes it more stable when on the move, and also makes it possible to fire while in motion. Regarding the non-extending stock. That's actually intentional, a shorter stock means a more secure grip, and your face is closer to the scope, for easier targeting.

[NerfGeek416]

Unit ZER0, on Nov 29 2010, 01:19 PM, said:

In theory you could use this blaster in the "typical" nerfer manner. (running around, jumping, etc.) That's what my other project, the Gyrostabilizer Module does, it makes a blaster this long easy to aim, because it makes it more stable when on the move, and also makes it possible to fire while in motion. Regarding the non-extending stock. That's actually intentional, a shorter stock means a more secure grip, and your face is closer to the scope, for easier targeting.

It is not a problem aiming on the run even without a "gyrostabilizer". Shorter stocks may be easier to aim with, but they are extremely uncomfortable.

[Unit ZER0]

Blue, on Nov 29 2010, 12:14 AM, said:

This is just a longshot that has an AR removal and spring additions that has a lsfg with a giant barrel on it. There is no way you can be a "sharp shooter" with streamlines, let alone get the ranges of 100 feet.

I couldn't believe it either at first, but the numbers don't lie. And the type of streamlines does make a difference. For example "E" Streamlines are slightly denser, and the rubber tip is a tad heavier, with a different shape, compared to "T" Streamlines, which have a lighter, more rounded orange tip, and are comparatively lighter. The overall condition of the darts is also a factor. And yes, you can get a pretty predictable shot pattern, it depends on how you load your darts into your clips, how straight you've plumbed your barrel, and how well you've zeroed your laser.

[Unit ZER0]

NerfGeek416, on Nov 29 2010, 01:24 PM, said:

It is not a problem aiming on the run even without a "gyrostabilizer". Shorter stocks may be easier to aim with, but they are extremely uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable, maybe. Easier to aim? Definitely.

[NerfGeek416]

Remember that those ranges are angled. Everyone here measures flat ranges. An angled range of 100' is easy, my CPVC'd NF could do that. His longshot is probably hitting around 60' flat, which is perfectly reasonable.

EDIT
How much of an advantage do you get compared to just aiming down the barrel?

Edited by NerfGeek416, 29 November 2010 - 02:28 PM.

[Unit ZER0]

NerfGeek416, on Nov 29 2010, 02:27 PM, said:

Remember that those ranges are angled. Everyone here measures flat ranges. An angled range of 100' is easy, my CPVC'd NF could do that. His longshot is probably hitting around 60' flat, which is perfectly reasonable.

EDIT
How much of an advantage do you get compared to just aiming down the barrel?

Flat distance is about what you said, I haven't tested it recently though. Since I use it almost exclusively sighting through the scope with the laser on, I can't really do a comparative analysis, but I would guess the advantage to laser sighting vs just eyeballing it is pretty significant against stationary targets at short, and medium range, fading to negligible at long to very long range. The differences would converge faster outdoors of course. Versus moving targets, it would be mainly a case of how well you know your blaster, and your ammo, with the laser and scope combination providing a slight advantage at medium range.

[sllewgh]

Am I missing something that explains why this is actually being discussed rather than relegated to the category of "modifications" established by The Overkill?

I agree 100% with what's been said already in regards to this missing the point of nerf. As a modder that works exclusively with stock darts, my experience with streamlines has been that they fishtail radically as soon as they begin to lose forward velocity. The only way to make them accurate is to fire them at high velocity by rear loading them into long and/or tight fitting barrels so they get distance before fishtailing. The result is a gun that leaves welts at 30 feet.

TL:DR, sharpshooting isn't an effective or even possible way to nerf, ESPECIALLY with stock streamlines of ANY type.



Furthermore, laser sights can be fun for shits and giggles, but I would NEVER allow one at my war. Who wants to be laser'd in the eye?

Edited by sllewgh, 29 November 2010 - 03:12 PM.

[Unit ZER0]

sllewgh, on Nov 29 2010, 03:11 PM, said:

Am I missing something that explains why this is actually being discussed rather than relegated to the category of "modifications" established by The Overkill?

I agree 100% with what's been said already in regards to this missing the point of nerf. As a modder that works exclusively with stock darts, my experience with streamlines has been that they fishtail radically as soon as they begin to lose forward velocity. The only way to make them accurate is to fire them at high velocity by rear loading them into long and/or tight fitting barrels so they get distance before fishtailing. The result is a gun that leaves welts at 30 feet.

TL:DR, sharpshooting isn't an effective or even possible way to nerf, ESPECIALLY with stock streamlines of ANY type.



Furthermore, laser sights can be fun for shits and giggles, but I would NEVER allow one at my war. Who wants to be laser'd in the eye?

Well, mine doesn't leave welts at 30 feet... To address your fishtailing issue, I have experienced that problem as well, the trick is a longer barrel. Firing this blaster with a recon barrel, for example, produces the fishtail effect. The custom barrel I have attached eliminates this altogether. The total barrel length, or distance the dart must travel from breech to muzzle, is approximately 37.5 inches. Couple that to the fact that the air from the main cylinder is forced around the dart as it traverses this distance helps with eliminating fishtail. Earlier versions of my project had shorter barrels, and they did cause the darts to fishtail. Plus, my plunger is double-gasketed, I am using two gaskets around the plunger edge, instead of the one it comes with, so the air seal is better. All I know is, it works... And to address your issue with lasers, wear eye protection, preferably polarized lenses. And it is up to the responsible nerfer, if he has a laser, to not aim at his opponents eyes. Attempting to "dazzle" opponents with your targeting laser is both rude, and uncalled for.

Edited by Unit ZER0, 29 November 2010 - 04:02 PM.

[sllewgh]

Unit ZER0, on Nov 29 2010, 04:00 PM, said:

The custom barrel I have attached eliminates this altogether. The total barrel length, or distance the dart must travel from breech to muzzle, is approximately 37.5 inches. Couple that to the fact that the air from the main cylinder is forced around the dart as it traverses this distance helps with eliminating fishtail. Earlier versions of my project had shorter barrels, and they did cause the darts to fishtail.

That explanation doesn't really pan out. I've never experienced or known of an experience whereby a barrel extension that doesn't touch the dart can affect ranges. Cosmetic barrels, like the one in the LSFG, or your "custom barrel", which by all appearances is just a barrel from a LSFG, don't affect ranges. A longer barrel, if tight fitting, allows more air pressure to build up behind the dart before it exits the barrel, thus increasing its velocity, and range, if the length is appropriate for the air output. In my experience with streamlines, this can lead to greater accuracy from even streamlines, the crappiest of darts. I find it radically implausible that your barrel produces any sort of effect.

I would happily change my tune if you could demonstrate, perhaps via video, the performance and accuracy of your gun with as compared to without the barrel.

To elaborate on my earlier statement, I started a project to get as much range and accuracy out of a stock streamline as possible. The end product was 1 foot of 9/16 brass inside 1.5 feet of CPVC, coupler'd to the front of an otherwise stock BBBB tank. Darts would exit the barrel faster than the eye could follow and travel between 50 and 60 feet before fishtailing, up to a wildly unpredictable possible max of over 100 feet level (there is actually a ~150 foot straight hallway in the basement of my apartment building, this is an indoor test). You had to twist in a dart to get it rearloaded into the barrel, it was a wildly impractical and dangerous proof of concept that I don't recommended anyone recreate. I called it The Murdercannon after it left a welt the size of a quarter on a friend's back for 48 hours from 30 ft. I never used it in a war.

This was the culmination of about a month's trial and error with barrel length and material. Perhaps now you understand why I am so skeptical that a longshot with plastic bits glued on has achieved the same result of 60' of accuracy with stock streamlines.

[durka durka]

I think a video of this thing firing would clear up a lot of the debate. Seeing is believing after all.
Also, if you are really concerned about being as accurate as possible, I would invest in making stefans (with proper padding on the head of each dart of course). They are much more accurate and cheaper too.

[GeshmanWG]

Unit ZER0, on Nov 29 2010, 01:20 PM, said:

I couldn't believe it either at first, but the numbers don't lie. And the type of streamlines does make a difference. For example "E" Streamlines are slightly denser, and the rubber tip is a tad heavier, with a different shape, compared to "T" Streamlines, which have a lighter, more rounded orange tip, and are comparatively lighter. The overall condition of the darts is also a factor. And yes, you can get a pretty predictable shot pattern, it depends on how you load your darts into your clips, how straight you've plumbed your barrel, and how well you've zeroed your laser.

But if you're angling your shots how is a laser even going to help?

[Unit ZER0]

GeshmanWG, on Nov 29 2010, 10:31 PM, said:

But if you're angling your shots how is a laser even going to help?

Good point, but the laser is intended for short to medium range work. It's basically pointless after about 35 to 40 feet anyways, and the accuracy naturally decreases with distance. The only point for long range shooting is mainly to keep opponents heads down, and maybe score a lucky shot. I mainly battle in urban, cluttered, and indoor areas, where there are few open spaces, with lots of cover, and your best/only chances of scoring a hit are when someone pokes their head around a corner, or over an obstacle. Not to mention we often battle with an objective, and a time limit to reach that objective. (Classic "Disarm the Nuke" scenarios usually)

Edited by Unit ZER0, 30 November 2010 - 04:25 AM.

[Homestarune]

Unit ZER0, on Nov 28 2010, 12:12 AM, said:

Collective, on Nov 28 2010, 12:21 AM, said:

Remind me never to nerf with you if you run around aiming for peoples' heads.

Actually, I prefer to sharpshoot more than run around. Just don't stand still too long, and you'll be reasonably safe.

Can you make a video of all your headshot kills? That'd be soooo cool. Do you have some kind of training from the military? What's that little thingy on the end for? Is it part of the lazer? How much does the scope help when sharpshooting? Ignore him, he's just jealous that he's not a good shot. Once again, great job. It's nice to see some innovation in the nerf community for once.