23 replies to this topic

[autonerf]

This is important for everyone who wants to sell Nerf stuff on ebay. Purchase tracking, delivery confirmation, and require a signature! Keep all receipts! Do NOT send anything until you are paid. This is what went down.

Ebay user bocatmom purchased my painted buzz bee double shot for $100.



I received payment and sent the item with tracking. It was delivered on Oct. 30. Then on Nov 4, bocatmom issued a chargeback through paypal. I received this message from bocatmom the next day.

Dear autonerf,

I did not order this item. Please cancel the order if it has not been shipped. If it has I will refuse the item and it will be sent back to you. Thank you,
- bocatmom

When I informed bocatmom the item had tracking on it and it had been delivered a week ago, I got this reply.

Dear autonerf,

I did not order this item. The item did ship but the box was completely empty. No item. No packing slip. Nothing. I opened this box myself only because it was so light. I will be happy to send the box back to you. Please advise. Thank you,

- bocatmom

When I checked bocatmom's ebay purchase history, there were several other toys guns purchased in the last few weeks. According to bocatmom, I just randomly sent an empty box without even having an order for it. Who else would have ordered it, a magic genie?

Paypal is reviewing the case. If it is decided in the favor of the buyer, I will lose everything. What can I do about this? Has anyone had this kind of experience? Please help.

Everyone please go now to your ebay block bidder page, and add bocatmom. Don't let the same thing happen to you!

To everyone reading, if you are able please pm me the names of ebay users that you have had problems with so that I may add them to my list. I am tired of losing my guns and money. Thank you.

[Blue]

eBay is more on the side of the buyer than the seller, you don't have much hope if the buyer is this determined to rip you off. I would recommend you actually call a paypal or ebay person and explain the situation to them, they might have some experience to give you some advice.

[antoiiiboiii97]

Also,if the buyer sends the box back,you can check the weight difference,and see if there is some info you can use in your case.

[durka durka]

Do you still have the shipping receipt or and record of the shipment?
Obviously a box with a nerf gun inside weighs more than just an empty box, and shipping charges will prove that you sent more than just an empty box.
Point out that this guy claims he hadn't received the item a week after tracking says the package was delivered. He changed his story and says that he only got an empty box AFTER you informed him that the package had tracking.
Also, I would contact the other sellers this guy has bought from. They might have had similar problems.

[the mod man]

I also have been ripped off before. I paid $56 for a lot of 2 sm1500's. I sent payment immediately after I won it. It didn't come within two months, so I contacted the seller and he said I'd never paid. I opened a case and after a bit of arguing I got my sm1500's.

Edited by the mod man, 07 November 2010 - 05:43 PM.

[BritNerfMogul]

I've dealt with this before.

This is (as far as I know in the UK) a very popular choice for fraudsters. Usually, they'll do it with a cheques rather than Paypal, but since the phasing out cheques has begun they are using alternatives. As police officers, we usually have the facilities/departments to assist or deal with the case.

My best advice, without looking into criminal law in the USA, is see what Paypal and eBay can offer. If they can't help you in a way that you feel is adequate, go to your local PD and ask for their advice. Like I said, Fraud is still a crime, whether it is in person or over the internet.

[KingBouyah]

Did you purchase insurance?

[Flaming Hilt]

It is possible that the gun was removed from the box by a postal worker or other intermediary. It doesn't happen often, but it happens.

(and has happened to me once before for you nay-sayers out there. I was sending a gift to my cousin: Not only are they family but if they did lie, they didn't gain anything from it)

Regardless of what happened, sounds like you're getting the short end of the stick. Best of luck.

[autonerf]

Paypal is still reviewing the case. I went back to the post office and got a copy of the receipt with the weight of the box and cost of shipping. Today I got another message from bocatmom.

Dear autonerf,

I apologize for the confusion. I've received a number of packages that I did not order and am working with PayPal to resolve the issue. However, yours was the only package that I opened (no, I didn't order it but a package arrived to me at my current address). I opened it because it was so light and yes, it was empty.

- bocatmom

Maybe bocatmom should check all her kids' rooms to see if there is a double shot hiding somewhere. If that is the case, this would not be the first time a kid used his mom's account to bid on my guns. Perhaps little Billy ordered the double shot and took it out of the box before his mom got home from work? If so then why was my package the only one light enough to open?

Every ebay purchase bocatmom made during the last few weeks were toy guns, but the items purchased before the guns seem like normal items a mom would buy. I don't know what to think anymore. The only thing I can be sure of is the double shot is gone forever. Maybe from now on I should contact each buyer before sending my items to see how they respond and ask them if they really did make an order.

[MindWarrior]

look at Durka Durka's post above you.

[Abyss Mods]

That theory of the kid buying the gun seems plausible. I would recommend expressing that theory to the buyer.

[THE MICHIGAN NERFER]

You sold a Double Shot for $100!?

[autonerf]

I sold one to ebay user happyfatguy for $100. The next one was sold to bocatmom for $100 but the funds are now frozen in my account until the case is resolved. I did request for bocatmom to look for any tiny foam packing balls a kid could have left behind because the box was full of hundreds of them. Bocatmom has not yet given an explanation of how the gun was purchased using her accounts, but did leave me another message.

Autonerf,

I have found no sign whatsoever of small, white, foam, cylindercal shaped packing material anywhere (indoors or outdoors). I cut through the tape that the post office put on. I did however notice that one of end pieces of the box had a different kind of cardboard that had been glued into place. Was it like that when you sent it?

Bocatmom

When I sent the gun, I had a box that was too long so I cut it in half and hot glued another square of card board with folded sides inside the end that was cut. It was solid so no one could have opened that end without destroying the box. It would have been way easier to open the side that wasn't glued shut. Surely there must have been at least one ball left in the box, or some evidence it had been opened before. Still no answers.

[durka durka]

The buyer says that she had to cut through the post office tape to open the box. Either little Billy must have been very clever opening his new toy, or he has a roll of post office tape. I'm doubtful of a little kid's capacity to open a package without leaving some evidence of doing so.
I also find it odd that out of several packages the only one that Little Billy opens is yours.
Why would the buyer open ANY packages they didn't order even if they felt too light? Better just to contact the sellers and return the packages as they are.
Just keep in mind that you're trying to get your money, or at least your product back. It doesn't matter what Little Billy did.

[Blue]

autonerf, on Nov 14 2010, 10:59 AM, said:

I sold one to ebay user happyfatguy for $100. The next one was sold to bocatmom for $100 but the funds are now frozen in my account until the case is resolved. I did request for bocatmom to look for any tiny foam packing balls a kid could have left behind because the box was full of hundreds of them. Bocatmom has not yet given an explanation of how the gun was purchased using her accounts, but did leave me another message.

Autonerf,

I have found no sign whatsoever of small, white, foam, cylindercal shaped packing material anywhere (indoors or outdoors). I cut through the tape that the post office put on. I did however notice that one of end pieces of the box had a different kind of cardboard that had been glued into place. Was it like that when you sent it?

Bocatmom

When I sent the gun, I had a box that was too long so I cut it in half and hot glued another square of card board with folded sides inside the end that was cut. It was solid so no one could have opened that end without destroying the box. It would have been way easier to open the side that wasn't glued shut. Surely there must have been at least one ball left in the box, or some evidence it had been opened before. Still no answers.

Uh oh, funds frozen? You aren't going to get that money back for a long while, make sure you never ever contradict even the smallest things you say in these messages, you are also responsible for what the post office does or does not do with your package too by ebay policy. Did the gun have a blaze orange tip when you shipped?

[Abyss Mods]

Blue, on Nov 14 2010, 09:47 PM, said:

Did the gun have a blaze orange tip when you shipped?

Yes, the picture shows that the tip is orange.

I find it odd that the box was completely empty. You would think that if someone from the post office stole the gun that they would just reach in and grab it, not empty all of the packing peanuts.

[Blue]

Abyss Mods, on Nov 15 2010, 12:02 PM, said:

Blue, on Nov 14 2010, 09:47 PM, said:

Did the gun have a blaze orange tip when you shipped?

Yes, the picture shows that the tip is orange.

I find it odd that the box was completely empty. You would think that if someone from the post office stole the gun that they would just reach in and grab it, not empty all of the packing peanuts.

That is not a tip, it is only the front. There is some legal length the orange has to go back to, it is possible the post office confiscated it for being technically illegal. Or, far more likely, the person you shipped to is trying to rip you off. So far the information is:
Tracking number says it arrived at the buyers house
The buyer says they received an empty box

So, it would seem all you need to do is show a receipt with a weight on it to the case worker you are dealing with. Also, you should try to figure out how to press charges for fraud against the buyer, if anything it will show that you can fight back.

[Lion]

Some thing I found that talks about the orange tip on airsoft guns(which tend to look more real then nerf)
I am not the OP nor do I know them.




http://www.airsoftfo...-Re-t89839.html



Since the "noobies" of ASF don't like to search, there are tons of threads asking about orange tips; "can I remove mine?", "what will happen if I remove the orange tip?", "is it illegal?". It's time to make an official thread explaining information about orange tips, and why they are there.

The purpose of orange tips
Orange tips are for shipping purposes ONLY! Some sates require it though (such as California), so check your state website or call in. Other than that it is perfectly fine to remove the orange tip, except that it MIGHT remove the warranty on your gun (on a few select airsoft brands). If you want to remove it, go ahead. If you're parents don't, keep it on. But it won't do much, because law enforcement won't automatically think it's a toy gun, and put their weapon down (gang members, terrorists, bank robbers, etc, sometimes paint the tips of their guns orange to trick police into thinking they are toys).

Police and orange tips
Like I said above, just because you have an orange tip doesn't mean police won't shoot you or withdraw their weapon. They consider ANYTHING that resembles a gun, a REAL gun. That's why you should ONLY play in areas that are away from by standards, and play on land that you have permission to be on. If you even turn around at a police officer with a gun in your hand - orange tip or not - you have a 95% change of getting shot.

Why some people keep orange tips
Some people like to keep the orange tips because it makes them feel safer. Even though it doesn't matter in the real world, they feel more comfortable with it. If you aren't sure about keeping the orange tip on, or don't really think it's a good idea, keep it on. If you have any worries about removing the orange tip or not, go with what your brain is telling you.

Your parents
If you are under 18 and live with your parents and they tell you to keep the orange tip on, KEEP IT ON! Don't try to sneak and take it off, it will hurt you in the long run, and karma always comes back. Listen to them, because out of that 5% chance of a cop not shooting you, it COULD save your life. And, most kids are lucky to be able to play with toy guns that look real and that shoot a projectile. When I first started, I used cheap springers, and shot at targets. The more responsible I became, the more my parents trusted, and let me buy bigger and better things. Now that I'm older, I can buy ANY gun I want, if I've got the money for it. Trust - it's a good thing, earn it with airsoft.

[autonerf]

The good news is, the case is now closed and I got the money back. A paypal fraud specialist reviewed my information and I was qualified for seller protection, so I was not held liable for the unauthorized transaction. The transaction details say "The funds that were placed on temporary hold are now available for use."

Many questions remain. What happened to the gun? Was bocatmom really the one writing me the messages? Or was it her kid who had access to her computer and accounts? Could it be possible bocatmom is still unaware that little Billy has been buying toy guns left and right? The gun was sent to Los Gatos, CA. Using google earth I looked at the houses in the neighborhood. There are million dollar homes and swimming pools on every block in this area. Maybe bocatmom has been away working and doesn't know someone has been using her computer.

Maybe a post office worker saw "Autonerf" on the box and decided to take out the gun and all the foam balls, and then tape it back up. If so, this does not explain why bocatmom would say she received a number of boxes she did not order, when there are a number of toy guns in her recent purchase history. Nothing makes sense. I hesitate to leave feedback on this one because whoever has access to bocatmom's account will most likely give me negative if I say anything, but how else can I warn anyone?

[Demon Lord]

My suggestion would be to leave neutral feedback with buyer. While ebay now has some protection for sellers like yourself (such as neither parties being able to see each others feedback until feedback was left by both) it is easy to get around them. Neutral feedback is the best way to warn people about what happened without having too high of a risk of negative feedback.

[durka durka]

The important thing is that you got your money. You got what you wanted and it would be foolish to push the issue any more. If you were to post negative feedback (although it's perfectly in your rights to do so) the scammer would most likely retaliate in the same way.

The best thing to do would be to quit while your ahead.

[lionhawk]

Well, your clear with your money. I find this case pretty weird and awkward though.

[autonerf]

Just when I thought it was over......

Dear autonerf,

I haven't found out anything more although I find it very odd that whoever opened the box did so and taped it back up as securely as it was when it arrived on my door stop. Since you're out the time you spent on customizing the gun and I have no product, did not order it, and am out $110 are you willing to refund me half of the cost ($55)? Thanks, Debra

- bocatmom

Hmm.... well after the remark "I'll be happy to send the empty box back to you" and issuing a chargeback claiming my item was never ordered without offering an explanation, I am reluctant to grant that request.

Either Bocatmom's kid ordered the gun, and gave it away or is hiding it, or a hacker used the internet to gain access to Bocatmom's accounts and order a bunch of guns including mine.

What can I do since this person does not seem to have an understanding of how paypal or ebay buyer protection works? Since I lost my job 8 months ago ebay is all I have and I can't keep giving away toys like santa. Now it's Nerf or nothin', and I have had my share of times when I got nothin'. Most recently from the_hulk22087. Buy-it-now does not mean buy-it-never hulk. I must remind myself never to send anything until payment clears.

[Demon Lord]

I'm with Bob on this one. Tell Paypal and eBay what she's trying to do and then let them take it from there. For all anyone knows she did receive everything and is just trying to scam you out of your money.