Ok, I never realized that you could put a cutting wheel on a drill; I'll try doing that. As for the springs, I have a spare recon spring that I could add if the stock one is not enough.

What would you say is the hardest part in making a sleeper breech?

Bump


I plan on tackling this project in a few weeks, but have a few questions before hand:

1. As I don't have a 9/16 drill bit, would filing and sanding the inner barrel suffice? I imagine it'll take a long time, but I'll be using low grit sandpaper and have the patience. I'm basically just wondering if it's possible (would also wear down the sides with a 5/16 bit too).

2. As I also don't have a dremel, would using a mini hacksaw work for shaping the breeches? I could use sandpaper to smoothen out and finalize the edges. Like I said I have lots of patience for this, and I'm basically wondering if it's possible.

3. I plan on using the stock spring for the reasons I stated in previous posts ( low stress, ease of priming, 100fps), and am wondering how long my 17/32 brass barrel should be. From observing and analyzing other sleeper breeches, I'm guessing around 4-6 inches of brass; however, I have no experience form brass breeches so this is just an estimate.


Thank you very much

so i am going to endwar in june and i don't know how to sign up for it so can someone please help me

If you don't know how to sign up for an event, then you probably shouldn't go.

There is something called the Internet and you should just look it up. I believe there's a Facebook page where you get the info and sign up.

My Longshot currently is able to hit 100fps with an 8 kg spring. However, I would like to build a sleeper to make the entire system more consistent, and air efficient. I'd rather build a sleeper with a short brass barrel and use the stock spring rather than my current setup. That's because the lower spring load means less internal stress, and I can easily one hand prime without damaging the boltsled.

I plan on using full length darts.

Thanks

You do not need a sleeper breech to get 100 fps. That should be more than achievable by just a spring replacement (5-8kg, [k26], etc.) and AR/peg removal. 

Off the top of my head, your setup would hit somewhere in the 160+ fps area. 

A [k26] gets 100fps?! I thought it was more like 140...

 

 

Also, the only reason why I'm considering a sleeper breech is to maximize my Longshot's air efficiency while reducing it to the lowest spring possible. That way, I can get my desired 100 fps with low stress on my internals.

 

A 5kg sleeper with only 6 inches of brass can get 160fps?! That's very high. Maybe a 5kg with 4 inches of brass would be better...  Has anyone tried building a sleeper breech with the stock spring?

So I was thinking of ways to improve my Longshot, and decided that I'd like to build a sleeper breech one day (probably during the summer). I only want around 100 fps, so I was wondering if it was possible to use a 5kg spring with roughly 6 inches of 17/32 brass as the barrel.

Thanks

I just removed the post. Accustrikes feed perfectly now, and the accufakes feed more reliably, but there are still missfires with the accufakes. If you use full length darts, what do you use/recommend?

I'd use USCs or accustrike/fakes for warplay, and elites for testing and randomness. But in the end if you don't rush your priming and chambering of the dart, then your Longshot should work with any dart.

I too run a modified Longshot as my primary and used to have this issue; however, it is fixable. When compared to an elite dart's head, the accustrike's is not hollow, and does not taper to a more streamlined design. Due to these two reasons, the dart tends to squish against the Longshot's dart tooth and the plastic of the magazine/barrel (dart head bends downwards).This issue isn't present with elite blasters since the Longshot's dart tooth was meant to chamber streamline darts so it was designed differently.To fix this you can either drill out the dart peg, file the breech slightly to create less resistance when you mouth the dart (filing the breech may cause reduced ranges), or simply return the bolt with more precision. It is a little hard to explain, but when you slide the bolt back to mouth the dart, try doing it more carefully, yet not so careful so that the dart is entering the breech too slowly. It is also important to "feel" when the dart head is going into the breech so you can hear or feel if it is chambering incorrectly (part of this is like a connection between blaster and user that develops over time). 

 

For your other issues, the puff sound is the plunger slowly advancing in the plunger tube since there is more air resistance caused when a dart is stuck in the breech (kind of like an A.R).

Also, the dart won't fall out when you shake it due to the reason I mentioned above (dart head folds under dart tooth).

 

Hope this helps.

I think the springs are binding. In that case, would it be appropriate to cut a coil off?

No, you only cut coils if the spring isn't getting enough compression.

There are two possibilities that I can see:

1. The spring is not getting enough compression for the plunger to engage the catch. In that case, cut a coil off, and try priming again.

2. Simply replacing the stock catch spring with a pen spring isn't providing enough force for the catch to hold the stronger spring. Try doubling up your catch spring by using the stock catch and the pen spring. If that still doesn't provide enough force, maybe add another spring, or buy a stronger one at a hardware store. However, you can't add too many catch springs to the catch; otherwise, the springs may not get enough compression for the catch to engage the plunger.


Good luck, hope this helps.

EDIT: If you simply can't get your Maverick to catch after trying to solve the issue, you can just use the "penny mod". It is a tried and true method of getting better performance out of your blaster.

Hey all

I was tinkering with a new Longshot mod the other day (basic A.R removal, 10kg spring, rubber padding, etc) and noticed the odd variances that the blaster made when fired. Sometimes it would be a short crashing sound, and other times it would be a low thud with a long vibration afterwards. So, I was wondering what is a normal noise for a modified blaster with its plunger padded (rubber washer) and somewhat heavy spring (10kg) would make, or is it just random? Anyways, I'm curious since I'm wondering if the short crashing noise is caused when the dart has a looser fit in the breech so the plunger can move forwards quicker with less resistance, and the low thud with long vibrations happens when the dart is tighter in th breech. Also, I'm a little worried if my plunger tube assembly (which is stock) is suffering damage (polycarbonate plunger head and plunger rod though).

Thanks!
Have a happy New Year

First things first, your pictures didn't upload correctly.
For a general rule of thumb, if the broken thing is a load bearing part then epoxy would only be a temporary fix. I would use a strong epoxy to set the broken piece back in its spot, then reinforce with steel epoxy putty; however, this is only a temporary fix and will break again in the future. If the part is not under any stress from moving, springs, or any force, then a strong 2-part epoxy could work. Anyways, it's hard to give any advice when I don't know exactly what broke... Try re-uploading the pictures.

EDIT: For the epoxies, don't buy one that fully cures within a couple of hours; it won't be strong enough. Get a good one day epoxy or something better.

Thanks the only reason I can't go to the hardware store because I'm fourteen and I would get in trouble if I used my dads screwdrivers and got caught.

So apparently using a simple tool is a way to get in trouble; nice.

That'll only work with the old N-strike mag-fed blasters that use a very inefficient reverse-plunger system.

As for a good stock Nerf blaster, I'd recommend basically any modern day (elite,modulus,etc) blaster that you like; they all basically preform the same (~60-70fps).

As for screw-drivers, if you can't bother going to the local hardware store then you shouldn't bother modding your blasters. It's not that hard to find a basic Philips head these days. Practically any store will have them for under $5.00.
EDIT: I just checked, and homedepot.com has the right size screwdriver for $0.87 No excuse now for not having one.

Worker darts hurt less. I got shot by them with a caliburn and it wasn't thaaaaat bad (hurt less then a FVJ out of my LS).

EDIT: Although I'd recommend worker's darts, there is nothing wrong with the waffle darts. It's just that the consistency of the batch you buy can vary, whereas worker is far more reliable.

Yes, you attach the breech assembly to the boltsled. It's explained in the write up if you actually read it...

Edit: Would it kill you to put some grammar into your writing? That way, people could actually read and understand what you're trying to say. Anyways, it makes you look like a four year old!

In terms of rare blasters that were put up on sale, I'd say the Crimsion (or red-strike) Longshot. However, the original sharpshooter would also be pretty rare (first dart blaster). I'd also consider orange trigger jolts and big shocks to be rare... Never seen one in person.

Well even without the furniture pad I can't put a clip in.  I think the OMW plunger rod is actually slightly longer than stock...  perhaps because the kit is for the Zombie Longshot?
 
Looks like I will have to trim some of the breech to make it all work.

It should fit in with everything... Did you screw the plunger rod all the way in? The head and rod are supposed to have a really tight connection, so you probably didn't screw it in all the way. All of the LS variants have the exact same internals, and the kits are compatible with all versions.
Hopefully that helps.

Edit: If it's not that then try rotating the plunger rod so that it engages the catch in a different way.

Unfortunately the tolerances for plunger padding are low. My rubber padding in my LS is around 1mm thick. If it's any thinker, the mag problem can occur like you said.


What dart checker? Are you talking about the darttooth? Or something else?

Yeah, the older blue ones tend to jam with elites no matter what... Pity. Due to that, I'd recommend the first link in where you drill some plastic out of the barrel.

Longshots don't tend to jam with accustrikes that often, but it will happen due to the nature of the dart head.

Yes with the OMW kits, I highly recommend AR removal. Otherwise, the fps gains are slim (25fps vs 50). With that said, PAD THE PLUNGER. I know the Orange Mod Works plunger head is an extremely tough polycarbonate, but the plunger tube is still stock. I just epoxied on a rubber washer that I got from a hardware store, padding should be rubber, not foam.

To my personal experience, all the newer versions of the longshot (Zombie and "elite") are compatible with Nerf elite darts. The jams mainly occur if you try to shove the bolt forward too quickly; going slower will prevent jams. If you still want to fix the dart "issue", the first link(Nerfhaven) seems to be easier (Although you may loose some feet of range).

 

For the OMW kits, the stage 2 is great. I have it installed it in my LS with an 8kg spring combo and after running it in two wars, no signs of wear and tear. However, you may want to two-hand prime or use a pump grip to prevent damage on the boltsled (Although it's polycarbonate, dual priming is better for longevity). 

 

Somewhat off topic, but where did you find two longshots in Alberta for $50?

 

I hope your son enjoys his B Day!

Great looking homemade, you did a very nice job!
I may be a complete idiot, but could you please explain how it works? The pump grip slides back, but the plunger has to slide forward... I'm new to homemades, so it's probably me being stupid, but how is the priming grip and the plunger connected?

Edit: Or is it that when you prime back you're moving the catch, and it engages in the front of the plunger head. When you pull forward, that's when the spring compresses/plunger moves back?

I bought the OMW stage 1 & 2 Retaliator kits because they were on special, but I don't have a Retaliator to put them in yet. But then I got to wondering, how similar are the internals of the Recon to the Retaliator?
 
Has anyone here swapped parts from one to the other, if it's even possible? Would the kit go into a Recon?
 
Any info would be good info - thanks

No, the Retaliator OMW kits will not work in the Recon. The Recon uses a reverse plunger, whereas the Retaliator uses a more efficient direct-plunger. Due to that, the parts are not cross compatable. I think the boltsleds are identical along with the spring reinforcement plate, but other then that, no cross compatibility. The OMW kits are designed for the Retaliator and the Retaliator only (the kits will fit in the Recon Mk II too).
Solution: Buy a Retaliator or Recon Mk II

EDIT: Basically what IAmAPenguin said.

Instead of just listing the YouTube channel, add an actual link to each page. That'll help people access their channels easier.

I'm no expert on hammershots (don't even own one), so I have some questions. Do you need to upgrade the catch spring to handle the 8kg spring? After some use, have you noticed any damage or stress on the stock parts? Are there any components worth reinforcing?
Other then that, great mod guide! It was really easy to understand, and although a monkey couldn't do it, any inexperienced modder could.
EDIT: After removing the barrel posts, have you encountered any rotational issues?

You can add Lorddraconical's YouTube channel to the list. He has plenty of great mods, and has been nerfing for a very long time.
Captain Xavier's channel is also very informative.

Hey guys, somewhat off-topic question but I was really curious about it. For a long time I've always though Nerf blasters were made out of ABS plastic. I was looking around other Nerf forums, and discovered this: some stock parts in Nerf blasters are made up of DELRIN. The hammershot priming handle is actually made up of delrin, not ABS. There's a small part of the Rapidstrike's mag release that is also delrin. Finally, I read somewhere that all stock Nerf catches are delrin. Can anyone confirm this?

So there was a lot of interest, but we only have 2 entries with a couple weeks to go.
 
Are people working on projects? Do we need to extend the deadline?

An extension would be very nice. I hope to have my write up before Saturday, so look out for it ... It's really bad though!

I'm assuming that you are planning to build a full sealed sleeper breech, correct? In that case, the AR must be removed. If it's intact, you'll actually see a range decrease. That's because a fully sealed breech system needs to utilize the whole plunger tube volume.
Anyways, a 5kg spring in an EAT is not enough to properly propel a dart from a brass breech system; you'd need to upgrade to 9kg<.

So don't put a sleeper breech in your EAT unless you're ok with upgrading the mainspring, or want a range decrease.

I meant the plunger tubes beside the mag. Like a sandwich [plunger mag plunger]

That would be way too thick like Spud Spudoni said. No human would have that large enough hands to grip over a magazine and a plunger. Even if it were possible, there would be no way of connecting the priming handle to the plunger head. You'd have to make it prime from the bottom or something, and that'd defeat the purpose of this homemade.

 

Looking good! Looking forward to a smaller version. 12 inches for a pistol is too big for me. 

12 inches for a homemade pistol meant for NIC level gameplay isn't very large. Nitefinders and Firestrikes with speedloaders are around the same length.

 

 Also why not put the plunger/s in the handles (yes 2 if needed)? By making the plunger rectangular like the pocket strike.

Two plungers mean that you have to prime twice to fire one shot. Also, with the two priming handles on opposite sides of the magwell, it'll be awkward to insert a mag.

A rectangular plunger system would be incredibly hard to manufacture. You'd somehow need to flatten PVC to get the plunger tube. Then you'd need to somehow source a rectangular washer or o-ring to get a seal. Finally, finding a spring that would fit inside a plunger like that and provide adequate power is next to impossible. Just look at the Pocketstrike's internals.

 

I personally think that the current design is great and Captain Slug is working hard to make it a reality.

The price seems reasonable for what it is. Hopefully this will be able to be bought from other websites like Amazon.

It most definitely comes with internals and mag which they have confirmed is compatible with regular nerf mags. The breech is just like their omni breech being almost air tight full length and stephan compatible. PT is LS sized. I am told it will come with a 6kg spring out of the box. As for parts compatibility, they will be making a whole line of upgrade parts. They are doing a good job coming up with new and useful stuff and deserve lots of support to continue coming up with new ideas. This shell is genius and so versatile.

The fact that the breech is fully air tight out of the box is amazing. Fully airtight plus a 6kg spring should deliver high fps and ranges!

My personal sidearm, a modified stryfe. It has the option to run on the stock 4 aa batteries, or upgrade to 6. That way you have the option of running 6 or 9 volts. This is great since I use my stryfe for plinking around the house, and in outdoor wars. I can use the stock voltage around the house, meaning my motors don't get damaged, and I won't accidentally damage drywall, etc. When I need the velocity of a modified blaster, I can switch to the 9 volts.
6 aa batteries:

Stock 4 aa:

Does it come with any interesting attachments or clips? If it's just a 6 round clip and some darts there's no way I'm willing to fork over the cash.

It comes with a fully transparent 10 dart magazine, and 25 E code darts; nothing too special.
I find it funny that the box advertises it as a "fully motorized, rapid fire blaster", so that may trick people in thinking it's full auto instead of a semi-auto blaster (like a stryfe)... Cheap marketing tricks.

I was at my local toysrus at saw the brand new Rayvenfire. Unfortunately I don't own a phone and didn't bring a camera, so no photos. You can probably go to your local TRU, and find one there (Please note that the TRU that I found the Rayvenfire at was in Canada, so the U.S or other countries may not have it in stock).
Price: $69.99 CAD or $54.34 USD
The price is very expensive. To put that in comparison the Rapidstrike is the same price, and it's full auto.
Despite the hefty price, the paint job and build quality seem to be good.

All in all, I don't think that the Rayvenfire is worth it at this price. Instead of spending $70 on this, I'd much rather get 2 stryfes or one Rapidstrike.

What I do for all of my Stryfes is I sand down the entire trigger mechanism with 200 grit sand paper and than just coat it in WD40 wipe off the extra grease and you're good to go!

Generally, WD40 and Nerf don't go well together. Not only does it come as a spray (added solvents), WD40 actually wasn't developed as a lubricant. It will eventually destroy any plastic or rubber.
Like I said before, silicone grease or PTFE white lithium grease are the only lubricants you should be using.
If you have more questions, look at CaptainSlug's extremely helpful thread about lubricants for Nerf:http://nerfhaven.com...afe-lubricants/

I don't collect, so I only have...5 blasters. It's all I need though (2 primary blasters, 1 secondary, and 2 backup).
As for magazines, I have two 6 mags, and one 12. Yeah, I know, that's not much; however, I don't fire that many darts in wars (1 shot 1 kill!), so it works for me.
I also currently have around 75 elite darts, 24 accustikes, and 15 "elite" stefens.

The only data you listed there that I would trust is the one in real units.  In general, Nerfwiki has always been terrible for false data and false history.  And OMW is no better for reliability.

Thanks for clearing that up...
Also, may you please check if my new calculations are correct?

Thanks

  Say there is a hypothetical spring which has a free length of 10.0", and it requires a 10.0lbs force to compress it completely.  If you cut that spring in half, it will still require 10.0lbs of force to compress that half completely.  If the original spring required 4.0lbs of force to compress it 4.0", the half-length spring may also be able to compress 4.0", but that will take 8.0lbs of force.  The spring did not become less stiff because you made it shorter.  It can be confusing, I understand, but you have to be wary of nerf pages when you are trying to answer a physics question. There is a great deal of misinformation which has been disseminated through this hobby, and it becomes worse when people use the incorrect nomenclature. 

 

Ok so from what I understand from your very helpful post, spring output is dependent on the free length and how much you compress it. The theoretical 5 inch spring took 8lbs to compress it to 4 inches since that was 4/5 of the spring. If you wanted to compress 4/5 of the original spring (by 8 inches), that'll require 8lbs. The constant for the original spring was 1lb/inch of compression. When you cut it in half, that doubled...

 

So now I'm going to try to apply that in my situation. The stock 6.5 inch Magnus spring took 4.5kg to compress it by 5.5in, that means it has a constant of 0.81kg/inch. I changed the full length to 4.5 inches. 4.5 is roughly 2/3rds of the original spring length. That means the constant increased by 1/3 (0.27), so the  new constant is now 1.08kg/inch. Therefore, the new spring has an output of 4.32kg/inch?

I'm not sure this is right, so if I'm wrong, please correct me.

EDIT:THE ORIGINAL SPRING ACTUALLY COMPRESSED TO 0.5IN

HEHE, turns out I accidentally mismeasured the compressed length...whoops

 

So now I'm going to apply this to my situation.The stock 6.5 inch Magnus spring had to compress 6 inches, or 92% of the original spring. The new cut down spring is 4.75 inches long, and compresses by 4 inches; a.k.a 84%. It took 4.5kg to compress 92%, meaning 0.05kg per 1%. So to compress 84%, that'll require 4.2kg. 

Does that mean that my Longshot has a 8.7kg springload?!

 

EDIT #2: Now that I think about it, I really don't think the stock LS spring is 4.5kg. The NIC Spring database records it as 2lbs per inch of compression. It compresses by 4 inches + the 0.75inch of precompression; that's 9.5lbs, or 4.3kg. Which means, my LS springload is really 8.5kg total.

But if we really want to get technical, the nerfwiki lists the Longshot's spring at 3kg?! Finally, OMW lists their 8kg spring as 2.5x the original?! Maybe if I have time, I'll make an updated spring database through all of my knowledge gained...

 This is where he looses me as well. If the spring constant is.. well, constant, shouldn't it output less force if you remove 1/3 of it?

Yes, it doesn't make sense. I asked my dad this and he said that if you cut a spring, but the constant is the same throughout, there'll be less power at full compression (vs original full compression).
Keep in mind that I ran the cut down spring through a constant calculator, and got 0.81 kg/inch. That matches up with the original length being 4.5 kg, and the cut down one being 3.24 kg.
I also:
Figured it out through my estimate way
Figured it out with Meaker VI's method
Confirmed it with a spring constant calculator
Confirmed the numbers with my dad
Contacted an OMW employee about it

EDIT: After hunting for every spring related forum on Nerfhaven, the vast majority tends to use Meaker VI's method. Where constant=Force/(full length-compressed length)
So:
constant=4.5kg/(6.5-1)
constant=4.5kg/5.5
Constant=0.81/inch of compression
Therefore, 4 inches of compression would give 3.24kg.
For you politically correct people out there, I know that you don't measure force in kg, but the majority of the NIC does it like that. So, I measured in kg so I won't confuse or mislead anyone.

No. Also, the fact that you are mixing your units is a real pain in the ass, especially given that kg is not a measure of force.  I am going by your numbers, and have never bothered to measure the spring rate on any spring, but here goes.
Hooke's law is basically this equation: F= kx
If the force is 9.9lb (4.5kg * 2.2 lb/kg), and the displacement is  5.5", then our spring constant is:
k =  F/x = (9.9lb/5.5") = 1.8lb/inch of compression.
 
However, you are changing the constant k when you cut the spring, because the free length changes, but the spring modulus remains the same.  
k = spring modulus (λ)/ free length (l), so λ = k * l = 1.8 * 6.5 = 11.7
The new k = 11.7/4.5 = 2.6lb/inch
If you are compressing this shortened spring by 4 inches, then your new force F = 2.6 * 4 = 10.4lb

As stated in my first post, I know that kg is not a measurement of force (newtons is), but the vast majority of the NIC measures spring loads in kg so that's what I did.
From what I can understand from your post, the shortened spring requires 10.4 lbs to compress 4 inches; 10.4lbs is 4.7kg. Does that mean the shortened spring outputs more power then the stock one? Meaker VI confirmed that my calculations were correct, but you contradict that so now I'm confused... Does that mean my Longshot has a 9.2kg spring load? It sure doesn't feel like that, and the ranges/fps are only 7.5 kg LS level.
I've heard something along the lines of a shortened spring being stronger in some area, but most research I've done contradicts that. When people cut coils off springs, they loose power. Many mod guides recommend that you cut the most you can to get more power. Also logic says that the less you compress a spring, the less energy is required. It'd require less energy to compress 3inches of a [k26], then the whole 11inches. Another important fact is that I ran the cut down spring dimensions in an online spring constant calculator, and got 3.1kg for the total spring. Fully compressing a cut down spring should require less force then the full one. Say I needed x Newtons to fully compress 10 inches of spring. Then I cut the spring down to 5 inches, to fully compress that, I'd need less Newtons; it's basic physics. Since the constant is the same throughout, by cutting the spring I reduced the draw length, thus reducing power. Finally, the spring should have the same constant throughout. I determined that the Magnus spring is roughly 0.7kg/inch. This matches up with the full 6.5 inches being 4.5kg, and the way Meaker VI showed me. If my reasoning is in fact wrong, please correct me.