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Ls Dtb Integration Frame Guide

Now 10% less "fugly"

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#1 b00m13

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 12:49 AM

NEWEST EDIT!!

Preformance Test Vid

Hello readers.

I'm sure you're all familiar with "OfAllTheNerf"'s kickass LS DTB Integration.
A lot of us kept saying it was the shiezniz but bashed on the looks of it. I'm guessing it's because of the section where they're integrated (How there were some open spots, which were covered up by gluing the DTB's handles over it.
Even though it wouldn't win any beauty contests, I still thought it was a clever mod. So I picked up my very own/first LS to mod.

This guide is to help you reduce that "fugly" (Hey your words, not mine) part... by 10%

Edit: Adding this finished pic (Barrel gets removed when gun's in use)
Posted Image

I'll call the side on the guns with all the internal pieces, the Right side (Since they're on my right)
and vice versa.

Start off by cutting the handles from both the DTB pieces.
With the frontal handle, cut the blue section of the handle (Leaving only the silver left)
For the rear handle (Trigger handle), cut it to the bottom surface of the gun, where if you were to look at it from the inside, it would be flat.
Sand both sections until you get smooth surfaces.

Nows the part where you'd take your time to carefully trace/outline the frames of each gun, to see where and how they'll be glued.

I left the front section of the LS alone, cutting a right angle in the frontal area of the DTB is much simpler then cutting angled frames on the LS.
For the rear section of the LS I cut a curved frame shape, which fits perfectly with the butt of the DTB.
(Because it's simpler then cutting a whole bunch of odd shaped frames on the DTB)

To get the frames perfectly, you'll need to place the left DTB case over the Right LS case, find the perfect spot where it'll be glued together, and trace the outlines on the gun with a sharpie pen.

Repeat with other side.

Posted Image

If you took your time cutting and sanding, it should fit it perfectly. Before making any major cuts, place your 2 frames side by side to see how much adjustments need to be made.

Eventually, the sides should fit like a jig-saw puzzle

Posted Image

To get an idea on where the guns will be placed.
The trigger will be right under the LS's blue internal frames.
The "upper" frame of the DTB should just touch the bottom frame of the LS.

Posted Image

When you are done sanding, cutting, carving, etc.
Glue the Left frames of the guns together first (Side with no internal parts).
You can place them flat on a table's surface and glue since no internal parts will jut out and push the gun frames up.

After the glue dries and hardens (Few hours), place the other LS frame in first and the DTB next.
Make sure you have the DTB's trigger removed before starting this next part.
Glue like you did before, make sure not to apply too much that will spread over to the left side of the guns.
After a few mins when the glue starts to dry, slowly and carefully, seperate the left and right sections for a minute. This is to prevent any glue from sealing the left and right frames together.
Let any excess glue dry (or wipe it of, your choice), and when there's no more danger of the 2 sections being glued together, seal the right and left sides together again (Wrap some rubber bands around them)

And that is how you make the LS DTB gun frame/case/shell.

Here's a pic of mine (only the frame is complete, tomorrow I start with the fun stuff; the internals)

Posted Image

I only attached the Strike/cross fire on the rail because I remember reading it as a suggestion on OATN's mod.

It'll take me some time to do some testing with the trigger system.
I understand why OATN chose the ring cord trigger mechanism on his mod, it's because the pull back length is much diff. The DTB's trigger is about twice as long as the LS's. The only reason the LS side arm could be easily integrated into the LS main gun, is because it didn't matter as much if it didn't go back completely forward... but the DTB's trigger does matter. When it goes back forward, it pushes the gears which rotates the "drum" to the next shot. So far I've tested to see how much space I can scrap on the trigger for it to have the minimal amount required to fire and rotate... (shaved off about 3/16" but it's still way much longer then the LS's trigger length).
If I can't figure out a way for the LS trigger to fire the DTB's trigger... I might be forced into using a pull cord like OATN. ;)

Edited by b00m13, 29 August 2007 - 10:22 PM.

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#2 baseballnolan5

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 06:36 AM

Looks nice. You could loop a pull cord around the ls trigger but you would have to make sure to return the turret to the previous postion or you would waste a dart if the DTB wasn't primed.
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QUOTE View Post

QUOTE

About how much are you holding in the pictures on the spools?

A shit ton.

QUOTE(Langley @ Aug 6 2007, 05:41 PM) View Post

The shot hit Andy squarely in the forehead. He was, in fact, on my team.


#3 Oro

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:03 AM

Correction, DTG. Anyways, nice job on making it less "fugly."
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QUOTE(deaddumpster @ Jun 25 2008, 04:59 AM) View Post

Don't pry.......and gently pry it off with a flathead screwdriver.

#4 b00m13

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:22 AM

I guess you might be able to compensate that matter by firing each gun after the other is empty (Fire off al DTB then LS, or LS then DTB)

Double correction,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Dart Tag Blasters
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
::Basic Air-Restrictor Removal
::CPVC Barrels and Internal Banding
::Dart tag plus AT3K integration and more.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------



DTB

But yeah thanks. I love clean cut mods, or as clean cut as it can be.
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#5 baseballnolan5

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 01:40 PM

Ok now that I think about it wrapping the trigger cord around wouldn't work becauce that wouldn't decrease the pull length. Your best bet would be to do a pull cord with a key ring on it You could decrease the pull length of the DTB by a little because nothing happens until the bottom circle on the trigger moves into the case. Or you could attach something on the outside of the trigger to function as a trigger where the original one is but on the outside of the LS.
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QUOTE View Post

QUOTE

About how much are you holding in the pictures on the spools?

A shit ton.

QUOTE(Langley @ Aug 6 2007, 05:41 PM) View Post

The shot hit Andy squarely in the forehead. He was, in fact, on my team.


#6 OfAllTheNerf

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:21 PM

Great job.

If I ever do another one (which I will, I screwed up both guns that I integrated), I'm going to take more time. I kinda rushed in on friday night and decided to start chopping the shells to pieces.

I have to admit yours looks very nice.

Definitely going to make my next one cleaner.
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#7 b00m13

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 06:51 PM

I've been thinking about integrating the triggers together, and I've come up with a few methods of doing it.
(None of which I'll use myself because it's too much for my feeble mind to comprehend... that was a joke, but anyways, as they say, "Simpler is Better".)


The first method I came up with is beyond my levels of cutting...
It's 2 gears with 2 different sized wheels attached to the center of each of them.
The Gears will turn each other when it's pulled by the trigger, or the trigger spring.
I do not recommend this method since it's too complicated.

Posted Image

The 2nd method I came up with a similar to the 1st method, except there's no gears involved (so less chance of a screw up/jamming).
It's basically gluing the 2 different size wheels together, with a rod that goes through the center of them.
When the trigger is pulled.
The string attached to the trigger will pull on the smaller wheel, which will turn the larger wheel.
Since the larger wheel is... larger, it'll pull much more string/wire, with the same amount of degrees turned.
(Imagine a scooter's wheel compared to a bicycle wheel, with just 1 rotation from each. The scooter will get a foot, whereas the bicycle wheel will cover a yard).
Although I didn't draw it in the pic below, I wanted to suggest you drilling a hole above the center hold, (don't merge them, give some space between the 2 holes. And stick a piece of metal/steel wire in it, so in case the wheels ever come undone, the wire will hold them in place. (Picture the smaller wheel in your mind, there's a hole in the radius which is to let the rod come through, what I suggest you to do is to drill another tiny hole between that center hole and the area of the wheel).

Posted Image

Here's an idea of where to install this pull system.

Posted Image

Good luck if you're gong to take it on, lord knows I wont... I'm just the messenger.

PS Thanks OATN
For the complement and for your kickass idea on what to do with the DTB. I had mine for 2 months, and it was just sitting atop my drawer, collecting dust. I never played with it, because I hated the cocking mechanism (It was very poorly placed and designed). But with your mod, it's just great. So yeah, thanks a bunch dude!!
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#8 OfAllTheNerf

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:05 PM

Personally, I wouldn't integrate the triggers together, anyways. My gun is very ugly, but I explained my reasoning in my DTG-LS thread. Good luck to you, though.

PS Thanks OATN
For the complement and for your kickass idea on what to do with the DTB. I had mine for 2 months, and it was just sitting atop my drawer, collecting dust. I never played with it, because I hated the cocking mechanism (It was very poorly placed and designed). But with your mod, it's just great. So yeah, thanks a bunch dude!!


Thanks, dude. I just wanted to do something original :blush: .
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#9 b00m13

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 07:11 PM

No prob man, and I'm not going to integrate the triggers together either for the same reasons. It's not like the triggers will be in separate sections of the gun, it's just an inch away, I can have the ring attached to my middle finger while keeping my index on the LS trigger.
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#10 b00m13

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 11:56 PM

Yep, I'm going to double post but I have a few good reasons to.
First off, I'm done modding the LS DTB.
Here's the finished product.

Posted Image

For the pull string, I've tried many different types.
First I used what worked last time I integrated the LS, an old fashion fishing wire.
It was strong, about 20LB pull strength, but it stretched a lil when pulled on which was not acceptable for this mod. When you'd pull on it, it would fire, but then it'd get caught and wouldn't allow the trigger to move forward and rotate the drum.
Then I tried the wire used to wrap the LS in the box, it looked strong since it was wrapped with a thin plastic skin, but after 20 pulls, it too snapped.
I went to the Ace hardware store to pick up some steel wire.
I didn't check the pull strength on the one I bought and it turned out to be a piece of **** (5LB!!), I don't know what I was thinking, using a wire that looked like the type you soder with... I blame the hot cashier girl for distracting me...
So today I went back and got the good stuff, a 30 LB pull strength Picture Wire. (They had 55 LB's etc. but those looked too thick and tough for a pull spring to pull through a straw tube.)
(It basically looks like a bunch of super tiny steel wires twisted together to form a super strong wire.)

When I installed the picture wire, it worked fine, (it didn't snap on me).
I used the same method I used on my friend's LS integration mod, which was a few capri sun straws to guide the wires through the insides of the LS (That way the wires wont rub against the corners/turns/etc. which will wear it down, and the wire wont slice through the plastic over time; which might cause the wire to get jammed, etc.)
But after a few shots, something bad happened.
The drum wont rotate.
When I opened her up, I noticed that the steel wire was not very flexible with making turns, so I had to relocate where it was tied to on the trigger (Underneath the big hole where it originally was), and I had to install a second pull/reverse spring onto the trigger.
It's a simple process, it just requires a pull/reverse spring, 2 bolts and 2 nuts.
Drill 2 holes, one at the front of the trigger and one through the LS's frame.
Make the distance of the 2 holes about 1mm longer then the spring would be if nothing was pulling on it.
Screw in the nuts and bolts, and now you have a DOUBLE pulling spring trigger.

Posted Image

If you don't have a spare pull spring, then fear not!!
You can just use a rubber band (add 2 or more if you want).

Posted Image

And after testing it MANY TIMES, this is something VERY IMPORTANT!!
Make the wire come out of the RIGHT SIDE OF THE GUN FRAME!!
If you make it so it comes out at the center of the 2 frames, then you're putting a ton of stress on it every time you pull on it. This ain't a LS + LS sidearm integration, where only a little pull was enough to fire the 2nd gun, this trigger requires much more pull strength, so do your gun a favor and make it come out at the right side of the gun frame, (on the right side of that gray circle piece that's in front of your trigger, meaning if you could look from the back of the gun, into that opening, you'd be able to go straight and reach the front of the magazine's right side).

Posted Image

Quick Edit

If you're going to build this gun, then I guess I should tell you that the DTB isn't really used as the main weapon, since the fire power/distance is not even close to the LS's.
It's more like a close range gun... a scaryass close ranged gun.

PS, if you look at the last pic, you'll notice there's a 5 LB circle magnet stuck on the pocket sized screw driver. That's a tip for anyone out there who has the non magnetic screw driver sets, by placing a strong magnet on the neck of them, you basically turn a cheap screw driver into a magnetic one, which is great for anyone who has problems losing screws when you open guns.

Edited by b00m13, 09 August 2007 - 12:05 AM.

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#11 General Cole

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:55 PM

I wub it. But seriously, I have a new use for my DTBs (DTGs, I don't think it matters). I think that making it less fugly would be using balsa or sheet metal and making a nice curve into the second gun, making it fluid.
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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You know what... I know it's kinda late... but Props Cole.
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#12 b00m13

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 03:46 AM

Yeah, I was going to add a piece of wood covering that area where the 2 guns fuse, and then drill a few more screws into them for a more secure locking, but it was just too much work for something that wasn't needed.
Also, I was getting annoyed with the picture wire as the trigger wire (It wasn't meant to constantly bend/flex like that) so I switched to a type of string that I can't remember what they're called. It's the same type of strings used in "Zoom ball", if anyone has/had one as a child, perhaps you know what I'm talking about... I think it's nylon... maybe...
Whatever it's called, it's just great, it's really strong, flexible, and durable.

Edited by b00m13, 11 August 2007 - 03:46 AM.

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#13 NerferKid

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 04:14 PM

now THAT is nice.i might have to try that :)
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...thing happens to mine sometimes, stick your finger in the barrel to make it air tight, then pump a couple times to re-close it... If that doesnt work then you have to open it up and pull the rod back.For me I have to pump 55 and I get a shot that can break through soft wood, consistantly.-rokor

#14 b00m13

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 10:38 PM

Bumping because it hasn't been a whole month yet and I've uploaded a vid for this mod.
(I won't bump the Brute Shot mod vid because the BS Mod is over a month old, but I will add a vid to that thread if anyone's interested. Just click on my profile and find my "BS Thread")

PS. In case anyone remembers my Gunblade mod, I've made a vid for that build too.
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#15 StanDan the Sniper

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 12:20 PM

how did you build that one?

Edited by StanDan the Sniper, 16 March 2008 - 12:21 PM.


#16 ejrasmussen

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 01:14 PM

He doesn't know.
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#17 Icespartan 1114

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 03:50 PM

I like this Longshot very much, the Dtb in the front looks as if it would make an odd weight balance in the front but a very well modded gun none the less
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#18 Banshee

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 04:50 PM

You necroing Haven noob. Read the code of conduct. Jesus! Can't someone make it mandatory to read it before they get to become a member? And like, have a quiz on it!? I'm sick and tired of these damn revived topics!!!
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#19 laxtk88

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:09 PM

Not to mention that b00m13 lost his memory a couple of months back.
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#20 Mr Tubb

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:15 PM

Can't someone make it mandatory to read it before they get to become a member? And like, have a quiz on it!?

That was my thought as well a few weeks ago, and have the quiz once every seven days...

Edited by Mr. Tubb, 31 July 2008 - 06:15 PM.

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#21 Dayko

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:21 PM

Can't someone make it mandatory to read it before they get to become a member? And like, have a quiz on it!?

That was my thought as well a few weeks ago, and have the quiz once every seven days...


Making a quiz would be a waste of time. If a person wants to necro a old topic they will.
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#22 Mr Tubb

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:49 PM

Making a quiz would be a waste of time. If a person wants to necro a old topic they will.

If possible, someone could also make it so that new posts in old topics have to be sent to a moderator or someone, to see if it will be of any use or not. That way, only useful necros would get through.

Edited by Mr. Tubb, 31 July 2008 - 07:50 PM.

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#23 Dayko

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 07:57 PM


Making a quiz would be a waste of time. If a person wants to necro a old topic they will.

If possible, someone could also make it so that new posts in old topics have to be sent to a moderator or someone, to see if it will be of any use or not. That way, only useful necros would get through.


The last thing the Mods and Admins want is a bunch of noobs PMing them to ask if they can necro a topic. Think about it this way: Do you want some one PMing you to ask if they can necro a topic? If they are going to PM the Mods and Admins they might as well PM the creator of the mod and ask him directly.
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#24 slowguitarman

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 08:18 PM


Making a quiz would be a waste of time. If a person wants to necro a old topic they will.

If possible, someone could also make it so that new posts in old topics have to be sent to a moderator or someone, to see if it will be of any use or not. That way, only useful necros would get through.


The last thing the Mods and Admins want is a bunch of noobs PMing them to ask if they can necro a topic. Think about it this way: Do you want some one PMing you to ask if they can necro a topic? If they are going to PM the Mods and Admins they might as well PM the creator of the mod and ask him directly.


He is saying that if someone posts in an old topic, their post would be automatically sent to an admin for approval. The person doing the posting wouldn't have to do any pm'ing.

Now that that's clarified...it's a very stupid idea. It takes months to get validated here because of admin approval. Do you think they want to have to sift through stupid posts? I doubt it. Now let this thread go back from whence it came.
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#25 VACC

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 09:45 PM


He is saying that if someone posts in an old topic, their post would be automatically sent to an admin for approval. The person doing the posting wouldn't have to do any pm'ing.


More straightforward to just have threads lock themselves after a couple of months of inactivity.


Or we could just ban violators since, you know, that's been working for the past 6 years.
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